Better for a newby learning Greek: Mounce or Wallace?

Hello everyone,

I've decided that I'd like to learn Biblical Greek. I already have the Logos Learn Biblical Greek videos which are a start (kind of) and I'll probably do self-study until I can afford a class. Logos March Madness has both Greek Grammar beyond the Basics by Wallace (along with some of his syntax books) and Basics of Biblical Greek by Mounce (along with a few other of his workbooks, readers, etc.) But since I'm just starting out I don't have a clue as to which is better or why. Normally I'd wait, do the research and then buy, but since they're both on sale I thought I'd go for it now.

So I need your help. For those of you who are familiar with Greek and and familiar with these works which would you recommend for me and why?

Many thanks in advance for all your help.

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David Paul

The titles pretty much tell it all. You are just starting out, right? One is "The Basics" and the other is "Beyond the Basics". You need Mounce if you are choosing between the two.

Sam Henderson

In my experience, the Mounce text (with associated workbook) is used as the basis for two semesters of Greek instruction.The Wallace text is often used as the basis for a semester of intermediate level greek. You wouldn't start with the Wallace.

My advice - save up the money and enrol for a unit of Greek instruction at a Bible college or Seminary.

David A. Peterson

I'll probably do self-study until I can afford a class.

Ryan, Mounce has a website with corresponding pre-lectures, reading assignment, video lecture, and additional resources, like blog entries, vocabulary exercises etc. I have just purchased the text book and workbook with the March Madness savings, and in conjunction with the favorites and links available, am able to put together a pretty comprehensive "self-study" class, I think it is about 45 dollars to have access to the video lectures, but everything else is free, and works well with the Logos version of the book and workbook. A google search on Mounce Teknia will help you find it. Plus the greek font/keyboard map help tremendously.

As a fellow "self-study" Greek student, I encourage you to stick with it, maintain a schedule, and find others who are also trying to go through it as well. Maybe we could start a Faithlife Greek Study group...

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MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/577004#Comment_577004

I would advise you to read a decent English grammar (language arts not linguistics) to make sure you have your grammar terms down.

Lee

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/577013#Comment_577013

I‘d grab both titles now. The sale price is pretty sweet.

David Paul

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/577013#Comment_577013

I would advise you to read a decent English grammar (language arts not linguistics) to make sure you have your grammar terms down.

This one can be had for 1c used (plus shipping) and is one of the best.

Stephen DeKuyper

I would definitely go with Mounce as a starter text. It is often used as the textbook for first-year Greek at seminary and Bible college. Wallace is a great grammar, but more helpful as a reference than actually teaching how to read Greek. I also agree that enrolling in a Greek course at a local Bible college or seminary is probably the best. Chances are you'll end up using Mounce anyway.

RyanB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/577050#Comment_577050

Thank you every one for your thoughts and advice, I do appreciate them. Eventually I'd like to enroll in a Greek class but right now I'm not in a position or location to do that - thus having to learn it on my own. (I do speak two additional languages besides English so hopefully that grammar knowledge will help.)

Does anyone have any thoughts on if the the Workbook, Reader, Compact Guide or Morphology books would be necessary for my purposes or would the Basics of Biblical Grammar be enough?

A related question: if you were me would you buy these accessory books or spend the money on Wallace's intermediate book if you had to choose one or the other?

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/577407#Comment_577407

As an undergrad, I used Mounce. as a graduate we used S.M. Baugh and am told the standard advance is the wallace text.

David A Egolf

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/577407#Comment_577407

I second the idea of looking for Mounce online. He has one course based on his book "Greek for the Rest of Us". This book is intended to teach just enough grammar to be able to use lexicons and other tools which you probably already have in your Logos version. I bought it as a gentle introduction to the language.

Also, you should try finding an online course by James Voelz of Concordia. I prefer the teaching style of the online DTS course, but the video continually focused on the instructor and never showed what he was writing on the board.

I also have the original video DVDs from Logos on both Greek and Hebrew. So far I have only watched a few of Cisnero's presentations and I consider this whole activity something I need to "get around to".

I was going to ask the following question if you hadn't:

Does anyone have any thoughts on if the the Workbook, Reader, Compact Guide or Morphology books would be necessary for my purposes or would the Basics of Biblical Grammar be enough?

Matt Hamrick

Hello everyone,

I've decided that I'd like to learn Biblical Greek. I already have the Logos Learn Biblical Greek videos which are a start (kind of) and I'll probably do self-study until I can afford a class. Logos March Madness has both Greek Grammar beyond the Basics by Wallace (along with some of his syntax books) and Basics of Biblical Greek by Mounce (along with a few other of his workbooks, readers, etc.) But since I'm just starting out I don't have a clue as to which is better or why. Normally I'd wait, do the research and then buy, but since they're both on sale I thought I'd go for it now.

So I need your help. For those of you who are familiar with Greek and and familiar with these works which would you recommend for me and why?

Many thanks in advance for all your help.

Mounce Basics of Biblical Greek with his workbook and videos can teach you biblical Greek if you are diligent enough to study it and stick with it. Vocab cards you can buy, but it would be better to write out your own. I took official college level Greek courses to learn biblical Greek and we used Mounce grammar, workbook, vocab cards, videos, and the teknia website. We didn't need our professor really, because all he did was teach what Mounce was teaching on the videos. We did need the pressure of timely assignments which kept us honest in being diligent. Once you start, stick with it until you are finished.

Wallace is for more advanced study.

Matt Hamrick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/577407#Comment_577407

Does anyone have any thoughts on if the the Workbook, Reader, Compact Guide or Morphology books would be necessary for my purposes or would the Basics of Biblical Grammar be enough?

A related question: if you were me would you buy these accessory books or spend the money on Wallace's intermediate book if you had to choose one or the other?

If I was you I would buy Mounce Basic's of Biblical Greek grammar, workbook, and videos. The compact guide is great to reference once you are done learning the basics. The key is to be diligent and study it. You will watch the videos over and over until you grasp the concepts.

mab

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/577013#Comment_577013

I would advise you to read a decent English grammar (language arts not linguistics) to make sure you have your grammar terms down.

Back when I took Greek, the instructor did an overview refresher of basic grammar terms. Most everyone forgets grammar terminology which is so important. You might even want to take a refresher course in English grammar.

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/577515#Comment_577515

I would advise you to read a decent English grammar (language arts not linguistics) to make sure you have your grammar terms down.

Back when I took Greek, the instructor did an overview refresher of basic grammar terms. Most everyone forgets grammar terminology which is so important. You might even want to take a refresher course in English grammar.

Or else be willing to look up things like "subjunctive", "dative", "genetive" etc.

These types of things come up a lot.

Pam Larson

Dallas Theological Seminary has a free course on iTunes University in first year Greek that uses the Mounce Basics textbook. You could use that as a free source of lectures to go along with the book. There's enough discussion of English grammar in the textbook that you probably wouldn't need a separate book for English grammar. (I've been going through the lectures as a refresher: NT101 and NT102.)

The workbook would be helpful. It consists of parsing and translation exercises to go along with each chapter in the textbook. There's no answer key for the parsing, but the translations are mostly from the Greek New Testament, and the verse references are given at the end of each chapter.

The reader is intended more for intermediate Greek work - Mounce's Basics textbook recommends it at the end as a way to continue your study.

RyanB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/577605#Comment_577605

Thank you to everyone who took the time to respond. I truly appreciate all the insight and advice you shared. I would have been completely lost without your help.

I'm especially thankful to those who shared websites (like the Teknia one and the iTunes university) suggestions. That will be very helpful.

I came into a bit of unexpected money so I ended up going with Wallace (for the future) and Mounce's Basics of Biblical Grammar, workbook, compact guide and the reader (the later two also for the future). Hopefully these resources, combined with your recommended websites and some hard work will have me speaking reading Greek in no time.

Maybe we could start a Faithlife Greek Study group...

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David if you ever start this Faithlife group I'll be the first to join. I think it's a great idea.

Bill Anderson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/577013#Comment_577013

I would advise you to read a decent English grammar (language arts not linguistics) to make sure you have your grammar terms down.

MJ has great advice here. It wasn't until I took Greek that I really understood how the English language worked.

RyanB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/578092#Comment_578092

I absolutely agree Bill. But for me personally, having learned two additional languages after English I feel like I'm pretty up to date on my grammar terms. (Even if that doesn't always come across in my typing skills [:S] )

David A. Peterson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/578089#Comment_578089

David if you ever start this Faithlife group I'll be the first to join. I think it's a great idea

Ryan, done. The group is cleverly named "Basics of Biblical Greek" and as soon as your onboard, we can discuss when to start up the class, and try to invite more folks to participate.

In Christ Who Saves,

Dave

Dean J

I would recommend anything but Mounce and Wallace if you want to learn Greek on your own.

Mike Pettit

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/578312#Comment_578312

I would recommend anything but Mounce and Wallace if you want to learn Greek on your own.

You think that they are that bad? Why?

Dean J

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/578316#Comment_578316

I think it requires too much memorization of rules while not providing enough reading and examples. It will teach the entire nominal system before introducing verbs. You are supposed to be able to recognize every form of a noun in Greek before you can even read a Greek sentence. Most (all?) other grammar books will build everything up together and start the student reading (and creating) basic sentences. They will introduce the present tense of the verbal system and then one of the declensions, and have you build up your knowledge while integrating it. Then you'll later learn another tense, then another declension, then some adverbs and adjectives etc. Tell me if your experience is different, but I couldn't imagine anyone being able to learn to read NT Greek with any kind of fluency using this approach. I heard one of the chairs of the SBL Greek section bemoaning the fact that Mounce's text is so popular in seminaries, and I had to agree with him. I know it's really popular, and I would love to ask people who have used the book why they would recommend it so much, and what their exposure has been to other grammars (and, most importantly, shove the NT under their noses in order to see if they can actually read it!). The text one chooses is a personal choice, but I would hate to see someone use a book without at least being given a fair warning to consider other texts.

Whyndell Grizzard

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/578350#Comment_578350

Dean has a point regarding memorization- but if you remember you have your reference resources at the finger tips. Over time you will become very familiar with Greek forms, hang in there, use is the best tutor.

I would also like to recommend you incorporate diagramming into your studies this will help reinforce the forms in conjunction with their use in the sentence.

Your goal is to learn the language in the context of the Scriptures, its use, meaning, and implications to what the Lord would have us to know, and do, its not an academic exercise your engaged in.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/578367#Comment_578367

Internet search for site:community.logos.com learn greek finds many forum threads, including:

=> Learn Greek - Logos Bible Software Forums

=> How to learn Greek - Logos Bible Software Forums

=> Learning Biblical Greek - Logos Bible Software Forums

Keep Smiling [:)]

DAL

Yo O.P. (LOL) Ryan,

Try this one: Learn to Read New Testament Greek I think it looks quicker and more manageable. You can then use Mounce to supplement it. This is the route I'll be taking to refresh my Greek. I wish the workbook for this one was available in Logos. I have Mounce and his workbook which I think will be very helpful. Black's workbook is available in Vyrso, but from what I hear the quality is not as good. Plus on the sample they have on Vyrso I don't see the Greek sentences they want you to translate, so I don't know if they are missing or what. Maybe someone who owns a copy can shed some more info on the workbook and, why not, the actual book too.

DAL

Unix

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/578440#Comment_578440

DAL, the workbook has Gk - some if it in smaller grayer font.
The textbook is on the March 2014 monthly sale $20.95. The regular price used to be 29.99 until early Autumn 2013.

DAL

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/578451#Comment_578451

DAL, the workbook has Gk - some if it in smaller grayer font.
The textbook is on the March 2014 monthly sale $20.95. The regular price used to be 29.99 until early Autumn 2013.

Now wonder it doesn't show on the sample pages. So, how does it work for you? Is it worth getting the workbook (if you have it). I grabbed the textbook recently, but wasn't sure about the workbook. Anyway, thanks for your reply!

DAL

David A. Peterson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/578302#Comment_578302

Faithlife group up and running, so far 22 of us ready to start on Monday

Always room for more

Milford Charles Murray

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/579973#Comment_579973

Faithlife group up and running, so far 22 of us ready to start on Monday

Always room for more

Peace, David! I signed up with the group and am grateful to you and others for engaging in this project. Thank you kindly! *smile*

Right now I have a whole bunch of irons in the fire and won't be saying much within the group, although I'll be there -- and striving! to keep up with the lessons and the homework -- at least according to my own schedule ...

I first took Greek at Concordia College, Milwaukee, Wisconsin in the fall of 1954 or 1955, my first year of college as an 18 year old! On my way to become a Lutheran Pastor (LCMS) It will be so good to "refresh"! ... although I've used my classical AND New Testament Greek since those wonderful and very "heady" days! *smile* My instructing professor was the Reverend Doctor Walter Jennrich. Then also the Rev. Dr. Augustus C. Hardt whom we lovingly and affectionately called "The Holy Ghost" because he was tall and frail and looked like the Holy Ghost! *smile*