What does 'trop.' stand for?
Forgive my ignorance, but when Thayer and other dictionaries read 'trop.', what does this stand for?
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I think it's an abbreviation for tropical, meaning 3: rhetoric of or relating to a trope; trope = a word or expression used in a figurative sense
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Yes...trope.
Ergo, "related to tropes" yields "tropical", which should be pronounced with the long O.
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"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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David Paul said:
Ergo, "related to tropes" yields "tropical", which should be pronounced with the long O.
Yes, indeed, to distinguish it from the other "tropical" pronounced with a short o (trŏpical), "situated in...or relating to the tropics."
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I've never heard the word 'tropical' in this sense before. Thanks.
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tropical (ˈtrɒpɪkəl)
adj
1. (Physical Geography) situated in, used in, characteristic of, or relating to the tropics
2. (of weather) very hot, esp when humid
3. (Rhetoric) rhetoric of or relating to a trope
ˌtropiˈcality n ˈtropically adv
Origin:
"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."
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Dean053 said:
Forgive my ignorance, but when Thayer and other dictionaries read 'trop.', what does this stand for?
Thayer? Ugh ! Big mistake. You should have BDAG.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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George Somsel said:
Thayer? Ugh ! Big mistake. You should have BDAG.
Wrong!! I use BDAG; someone who was trying to argue with me was relying on Thayer. I've never used it--so what's wrong with it?
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It's just a little creaky with age. It came out just before Deissmann established that NT Greek was the same as Koine rather than some special "Holy Ghost" Greek, which had been the perception up to that point. It isn't necessarily bad or worthless, but you would need to be careful using it. George practically worships BDAG...and HALOT. They're fine, but I often find that other lexicons have a shade of meaning that they miss. George would say that makes them wrong, but it is an argument from authority rather than "just the facts, ma'am." There is no logical reason for assuming that BDAG and HALOT are always right and everyone else always wrong. Just double check yourself. George would warn against "looking for the meaning you want to find", and that is a legitimate concern. But, guess what? Sometimes that meaning is legitimate and correct. Much as George hates Strong's, I've found it to have a better definition at times. Again, check yourself using as many sources as you can.
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"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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LOL for a moment I thought you meant "Torpe." We should bring that word back, I remember way back when it was used very often. Hey you, torpe! LOL
Anyway, Thayer is ok for some basic stuff, but I prefer BDAG (and other lexicons, not just BDAG alone).
DAL
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One really should look at Thayer to see what it means: it may refer to a specific text:
Gregorius Corinthius Grammaticus [Greg.Cor.] (?)x/xi A.D.
Ed. G. H. Schaefer, Leipzig 1811.
Trop. = περὶ τρόπων, ed. L. Spengel, Rhet iii p. 215; (an ancient work wrongly ascribed to Greg.), M. L. West in CQ N.S. 15.236; (cited by Spengel’s p., given in West’s margin).
Henry George Liddell et al., A Greek-English Lexicon (Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1996), xxv.or simply trope:
גָּבִישׁ (from גָּבַשׁ) pr. ice (see אֶלְגָּבִישׁ); trop. used for crystal, which is like ice, and was in fact regarded as ice (Plin. H. N. xxxvii. 2), compare Gr. κρύσταλλος, and Æth. እብነ፡ በረድ፡ hailstone and crystal. It occurs once, Job 28:18.
Wilhelm Gesenius and Samuel Prideaux Tregelles, Gesenius’ Hebrew and Chaldee Lexicon to the Old Testament Scriptures (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2003), 154.Or a different text:
Agreeably to this ancient custom, the first Council of Constantinople decreed that the bishop of that city should take precedence after the Roman Pontiff, because it was a new Rome. But long after, when a similar decree was made at Chalcedon, Leo keenly protested (Socrat. Hist. Trop. Lib. 9 cap. 13). (IV, 7:15)
Dave Armstrong, Biblical Catholic Answers for John Calvin (Dave Armstrong, 2010), 131–132.Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Dean053 said:George Somsel said:
Thayer? Ugh ! Big mistake. You should have BDAG.
Wrong!! I use BDAG; someone who was trying to argue with me was relying on Thayer. I've never used it--so what's wrong with it?
It attempts to understand the NT on the basis of Attic Greek. It's about like trying to understand the English of the AV at times without understanding the changes in the language. E.g.,
Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:
1 Cor 10.25 (AV)
OR
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2 Thess 2.7 (AV)
These are obviously English examples, but there is a similar situation with regard to the Greek. That is why Thayer posited a "Holy Ghost Greek." Deissmann and the Moulton and Milligan using the Oxyrhynchus papyri proved that it was perfectly normal Koine Greek. It's only important if you're interested in understanding what was really being said. If not, use whatever lexicon floats your boat.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Thank you, George, my lovely erudite friend! *smile* Peace to you!
It was good to "flesh out" the knowledge in my head, and I thank you for bringing some order from the shambles, eh?! *smile*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shambles
George Somsel said:Dean053 said:George Somsel said:Thayer? Ugh ! Big mistake. You should have BDAG.
Wrong!! I use BDAG; someone who was trying to argue with me was relying on Thayer. I've never used it--so what's wrong with it?
It attempts to understand the NT on the basis of Attic Greek. It's about like trying to understand the English of the AV at times without understanding the changes in the language. E.g.,
Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:
1 Cor 10.25 (AV)
OR
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2 Thess 2.7 (AV)
These are obviously English examples, but there is a similar situation with regard to the Greek. That is why Thayer posited a "Holy Ghost Greek." Deissmann and the Moulton and Milligan using the Oxyrhynchus papyri proved that it was perfectly normal Koine Greek. It's only important if you're interested in understanding what was really being said. If not, use whatever lexicon floats your boat.
Philippians 4: 4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........
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George Somsel said:Dean053 said:George Somsel said:
Thayer? Ugh ! Big mistake. You should have BDAG.
Wrong!! I use BDAG; someone who was trying to argue with me was relying on Thayer. I've never used it--so what's wrong with it?
It attempts to understand the NT on the basis of Attic Greek. It's about like trying to understand the English of the AV at times without understanding the changes in the language. E.g.,
Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:
1 Cor 10.25 (AV)
OR
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2 Thess 2.7 (AV)
These are obviously English examples, but there is a similar situation with regard to the Greek. That is why Thayer posited a "Holy Ghost Greek." Deissmann and the Moulton and Milligan using the Oxyrhynchus papyri proved that it was perfectly normal Koine Greek. It's only important if you're interested in understanding what was really being said. If not, use whatever lexicon floats your boat.
For what it is worth, (which is exactly what it costs: nothing), I agree with George.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley0 -
When skimming forum subject lines, yours caused me to think we'd opened a juicier topic.
"I read dead people..."
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Did you say "juicy"?
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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This thread is getting trop bête (French for "too silly"). In fact, the French word trop was the first thing that came into my mind when I saw the subject initially.
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