Why are the iOS apps so badly designed?
Comments
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Here are a few of my niggles and specific requests (only usability requests):
1. Properly syncing commentary panel. Currently, there are times when if there are no comments/notes for a verse (ie the one at the top of the screen), the notes/comments revert to the start of the pericope, rather than smartly for notes relating to the other verses shown on the screen. When you swipe to the next page (I use side-swipe) then all the notes for the verses on the previous screen (apart from the situation where they exist for the top displayed verse) can never be viewed. To see them have to navigate to the reference. Very annoying!
2. More than one panel or tabs! (I love the luxury and flexibility of up to 5 simultaneously open panels on Laridian's offering - Laridian looks more like my Desktop Logos screen than the Logos app does!! - and it's clear and fully readable even on a iPad mini!)
3. Ease of changing between reading a book (for pleasure/edificiation) and studying the bible
4. Cool, smart, scrollable pop-up windows - as demonstrated amazingly by Olivetree.
There are many other features I'd like to see, but as this thread is about UI I'll stop there.
I have all the iOS and Android bible apps (there are a lot!) and have used them all over the years giving them good work outs. Logos is NOT my main go-to app, apart from when I need a resource which only Logos has. (Oh and I don't like keep being nagged by pop-ups to rate the app when I use it!!!)
Hope these suggestions may help the developers improve the basic design and usability of the app.
Thanks, as always, for listening,
James
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Last list of feature requests is exactly the reason why I am also Accordance user now. Both have advantages and cons.
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I really feel guilty being a Laridian fangirl but not recommending it! The reason is the UI, as Mr Hudson mentioned. I really had not thought about it but I have it arranged like my Logos5 (tabs, parallel resources, etc). Quick and fast.
Obnoxious options menu though. And fonts are hard on the eyes ('Pa ... can you turn the contrast higher. My sunglasses aren't working.')
Obviously no one wants to re-program (or could afford to). But there are some lessons to be learned from the Logos4/5 team (being a Libronix girl, I didn't really say that.)
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Love the tabs idea!
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We would love to make the app more useful, and easier to use, and if you give specific input we can address your specific concerns.
I personally am quite happy with the mobile app. But, these are the features I most often wish the app had (most having to do with offline functionality):
1. Basic Greek and Hebrew Lemma lookup database offline (i.e. the little popup window that appears with summary data when you are online and lookup a word).
2. Links (in a book) to another book which is not a Bible do not work when you are offline.
3. Guides support when offline.
4. When syncing panels, give the option to let the top or the bottom panel "lead" the navigation, so that if, for example, the top panel is leading, changes in the bottom panel will not affect the top panel, but will affect the bottom panel. This would elegantly resolve the problems described here: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/77118/540140.aspx#540140
5. I really don't like how, if I have a Bible that is open in the 2nd pane, but it is not my "favorite" Bible, and I click on a Bible link in the 1st pane, it will not navigate the verse in the 2nd pane, but rather opens my "favorite" Bible in the 1st pane.
6. Finally, I do have to admit that I wish Logos had an option (with all the popup warnings you wish) to automatically download all new books to a certain device. I use a device with 32GB of space, and I use that space for Verbum, so that I can have all books offline.
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Since we're in the suggesting business (being able to highlight quickly being so passe' .... another thread this morning), automatic downloads are big trouble for 'some' for 2 reasons: (1) cellular of course; that's easy and (2) automatic to WHERE ... I use 4 different Logos apps, each with a specific grouping of reading.
That's why it needs to be optional and eventually will have to deal with the same issue Kindle has to deal with .... download to WHERE?
Now, Fr Devin kindly included 'optional' (reflecting his always helpful input ... true) but Logos loves to force things.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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I agree with James' list fully and wholeheartedly!
1. Properly syncing commentary panel. Currently, there are times when if there are no comments/notes for a verse (ie the one at the top of the screen), the notes/comments revert to the start of the pericope, rather than smartly for notes relating to the other verses shown on the screen. When you swipe to the next page (I use side-swipe) then all the notes for the verses on the previous screen (apart from the situation where they exist for the top displayed verse) can never be viewed. To see them have to navigate to the reference. Very annoying!
2. More than one panel or tabs! (I love the luxury and flexibility of up to 5 simultaneously open panels on Laridian's offering - Laridian looks more like my Desktop Logos screen than the Logos app does!! - and it's clear and fully readable even on a iPad mini!)
3. Ease of changing between reading a book (for pleasure/edificiation) and studying the bible
4. Cool, smart, scrollable pop-up windows - as demonstrated amazingly by Olivetree.
I also support some items on Fr Roza's list:
1. Basic Greek and Hebrew Lemma lookup database offline (i.e. the little popup window that appears with summary data when you are online and lookup a word).
3. Guides support when offline.
4. When syncing panels, give the option to let the top or the bottom panel "lead" the navigation, so that if, for example, the top panel is leading, changes in the bottom panel will not affect the top panel, but will affect the bottom panel. This would elegantly resolve the problems described here: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/77118/540140.aspx#540140
5. I really don't like how, if I have a Bible that is open in the 2nd pane, but it is not my "favorite" Bible, and I click on a Bible link in the 1st pane, it will not navigate the verse in the 2nd pane, but rather opens my "favorite" Bible in the 1st pane.
I want to add my own 2 cents:
- The linking behavior between the left/right or top/bottom panels is really unpredictable and inconvenient. The desktop app doesn't do it as badly, nor does any other iOS Bible apps.
- When user opens the TOC, why doesn't it open to the current location where I'm reading? Also, please provide a multi-level expand/collapsible TOC like in the desktop app, rather than a level-by-level TOC display you currently have -- it is so inconvenient and poorly designed.
In general, as I've advocated before, we live in a different world than 2-3 years ago. Please make Mobile and Touch serious priorities. I spend 90% of my Logos time on an iPad reading and highlighting (thanks for the new highlighting improvements!), and the remaining 10% I use Logos 5 on a touch-enabled Windows 8.1 tablet.
Bob/Logos -- Please change your thinking. More and more people are using your resources and apps primarily on a mobile device first. For those who're still using Windows, more of us will be using a touch-enabled device. Please start to pivot to a mobile-first / touch-first design and architectural strategy rather than the current desktop-first / mobile-second emphasis.
Thanks,
Peter0 -
I do have to admit that I wish Logos had an option (with all the popup warnings you wish) to automatically download all new books to a certain device. I use a device with 32GB of space, and I use that space for Verbum, so that I can have all books offline.
As I said above, you can. Bob was mistaken.
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I do have to admit that I wish Logos had an option (with all the popup warnings you wish) to automatically download all new books to a certain device. I use a device with 32GB of space, and I use that space for Verbum, so that I can have all books offline.
As I said above, you can. Bob was mistaken.
I am actually proposing something slightly more than just a "Download All" button. I would like an option for you to say that on this device, any new book is automatically downloaded, just like to the desktop app. Some devices have enough space that that is very realistic.
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As someone who started very early with the Logos app dev the current form is so much better than it was.
My biggest complaint is that even when a resource is loaded on my device, it still takes awhile to load or move to another location. In other words its slow.
I'd like to hit the next page button and it pop. It often gives me the spinning circle, even when the app is running displaying a bible stored locally.
Dr. Kevin Purcell, Director of Missions
Brushy Mountain Baptist Association0 -
Bob/Logos -- Please change your thinking. More and more people are using your resources and apps primarily on a mobile device first. For those who're still using Windows, more of us will be using a touch-enabled device. Please start to pivot to a mobile-first / touch-first design and architectural strategy rather than the current desktop-first / mobile-second emphasis.
Thanks,
PeterI hope not. Logos is about Bible study primarily. Bible study can be done on mobile, but it shouldn't be where it takes place usually. It should be in a quiet place, like your home. If that is an option, you would want your computer so you can see a whole lot more and do a whole lot more.
If that isn't an option, then get a laptop. I love the mobile devices, but they are designed for different things. More people will use mobile devices. More serious Bible study will be done on desktop. This field is one of the few arenas in which mobile by default cannot replace the desktop experience. Even if mobile gains the power of the desktop (and it will/has), the screen size simply cannot make up for it. Some form of desktop will be necessary for serious Bible study.
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Sure the good Apostle Paul advocated quiet time for proper Bible study, finding a plug being the issue. Jesus alone in the root cellar; clearly portables were the only choice. But Barnabas was always saying 'Interaction!, interaction! People have to buy it!' Timothy never quite bought into extemporaneous power speeches using his mobile. And James had trouble balancing his iPhone on his knees, in order to see the prayerlist.
Platforms vs proper spirituality. These are really challenging issues for modern Christians.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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What I'm saying is that if I want to look through five translations of the Bible, the Greek NT, Hebrew OT, LXX, six commentaries, maps, Bible word study, etc., then there really is no good way to do that on a mobile device. a desktop would be a much better place to do that kind of study.
if I don't want to do all that, then that's fine. Good study can be done without all that stuff. But that's not what Logos is about. Logos isn't about just one or two resources open at a time. The reason why Logos excels (and really, exists) is because of its ability to to have many resources open at one time.
.The person I was responding to was saying that Logos should go primarily mobile, and let the desktop follow. But if what Logos does best is something done best on desktop by default, then Logos should not change its focus
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Denise, you lost me at 'Sure'.
Matt, I completely agree. And, can I suggest that if the mobile was the primary version it might help if the forums weren't for the most part broken on the iPad.
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Matt caught it, and his answer was good.
My point was that Bible study sufficient to take advantage of God's offer doesn't require much in the way of technology. And 'deep study' similarly doesn't demand specific tools. But Matt clarified.
Personally I agree that Logos5 could be more touch-aware without risking the keyboard/mouse functionalities.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Software design should be employ "use cases". How the software is supposed to be employed by the end user should be one of the primary drivers of the design. As Bob pointed out, the development on tablets was heavily constrained by resources; i.e., both hardware and software library support.
That being said, as an end user, I have found that my personal "use cases" are a result of the capabilities which I find on the platform at hand. For Android and IOS tablets that has been primarily "reading". "Study" is nearly impossible due to the inability to easily move between resources and the limitations of the search facility. I am quite happy using my tablets for reading.
Even my reading use case has conformed to the capability of the software. I typically have several books I am reading at one time. The clumsy way of moving between resources has led me to opening one book on my iPad Logos, another on Vyrso, and, if there is a third, on the Logos of the Android. I thing the "tab" idea would be great!
The limitations of the tablets has actually changed my usage of my desktop version. Since clippings are not available from the iPad I have migrated to notes files for almost everything.
I do have a strong complaint. Since I don't see a way to turn off split screen on the iPad I drag the boundary to one edge. This would work great except when I am turning pages the entire edge is subject to being dragged. As a result, I accidentally drag the second window over when I really just wanted to turn the page. I believe that the button at the bottom of the page should be required to move the boundary. The entire "edge" should not be an active widget.
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I don't see a way to turn off split screen on the iPad I drag the boundary to one edge
The only app that can't be switched to a single pane is Faithlife. All the other apps can be single pane.
O.K. How for iPad?
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"Study" is nearly impossible due to the inability to easily move between resources
Are you aware of the two-finger left/right swipe gesture on iOS devices? This will switch back and forth between panels - resources, guides, search results, etc. It's a really easy way to move between resources. http://screencast.com/t/Eo3y6scd6w
I do have a strong complaint. Since I don't see a way to turn off split screen on the iPad I drag the boundary to one edge. This would work great except when I am turning pages the entire edge is subject to being dragged. As a result, I accidentally drag the second window over when I really just wanted to turn the page. I believe that the button at the bottom of the page should be required to move the boundary. The entire "edge" should not be an active widget.
I thought I had already entered a case for this but I couldn't find it... I'll write one up.
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I don't see a way to turn off split screen on the iPad I drag the boundary to one edge
The only app that can't be switched to a single pane is Faithlife. All the other apps can be single pane.
O.K. How for iPad?
I think I misunderstood you. You seem to be using some terminology incorrectly.
How do you turn split screen off? Simply move the slider down to one end or the other! I think what you were trying to say is that you accidentally open a second pane. Is that right?
The entire "edge" should not be an active widget.
A "widget" is a small application. There are no "widgets" in the app. I think you mean to say that the edge should not function as a button or trigger to turn on split screen. Right?
Are you primarily using this in portrait or landscape? I know another user had difficulties with this in landscape. I don't encounter this problem often.
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Are you aware of the two-finger left/right swipe gesture on iOS devices? This will switch back and forth between panels - resources, guides, search results, etc. It's a really easy way to move between resources. http://screencast.com/t/Eo3y6scd6w
That seems promising and it does switch between various resources, but which ones? How do I control the list of resources?
Thanks for your reply and thank you for writing up a case on the split screen problem.
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http://community.logos.com/forums/p/57158/409092.aspx#409092 has a workround to the inadvertent split screen problem
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That seems promising and it does switch between various resources, but which ones? How do I control the list of resources?
It works with all resources and the order in which you open them is remembered by the app. There isn't a way to control or change the order of resources after the fact, unless you reopen them again in a different order.
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I don't see a way to turn off split screen on the iPad I drag the boundary to one edge
The only app that can't be switched to a single pane is Faithlife. All the other apps can be single pane.
O.K. How for iPad?
I think I misunderstood you. You seem to be using some terminology incorrectly.
How do you turn split screen off? Simply move the slider down to one end or the other! I think what you were trying to say is that you accidentally open a second pane. Is that right?
The entire "edge" should not be an active widget.
I run in landscape and the entire "edge" of the screen is an active element. Moving the slider to one side doesn't work very well since the entire edge is easily grabbed in order to reveal the hidden pane. This may not be a problem in portrait mode, but I prefer to read in landscape.
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http://community.logos.com/forums/p/57158/409092.aspx#409092 has a workround to the inadvertent split screen problem
The ideal solution is not to turn pages from the very edge of the screen since page turns can be done from *anywhere* on the screen. http://screencast.com/t/0B2NRDEvKSoy
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http://community.logos.com/forums/p/57158/409092.aspx#409092 has a workround to the inadvertent split screen problem
Hi Graham,
I've tried this; i.e., putting the hidden pane on the right, but the problem just reappears as soon as I turn back a page. My point is that there is no good reason for the entire edge to be "active"; i.e., available to be grabbed. I also prefer the second frame to be a synchronized commentary of some type when I read the Bible and it is more natural to be on the right, but normally hidden.
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The ideal solution is not to turn pages from the very edge of the screen since page turns can be done from *anywhere* on the screen. http://screencast.com/t/0B2NRDEvKSoy
I would contend that the "ideal" solution would be to not make the edge of the screen "active". Frankly, this occurs most often when I am rushing to get around another problem which I had not mentioned; i.e., the audio reader on the ESV Bible sometimes neglects to turn the page. I find that if that happens I can sometimes recover by quickly flipping the page manually. If in my haste I "grab the edge" by mistake it's all over! [:(]
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It's not that I am trying to turn pages from the edge of the screen but it happens from time to time
i turn pages by tapping on the right of the screen - I normally try and tap about 5mm in and it works. If, by mistake, I tap 2mm in the screen splits in half (measurements not accurate, just to demonstrate the issue)
Edit: apologies this was in response to Kevin's post but, some how, I didn't manage to quote it
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Hi David
My point is that there is no good reason for the entire edge to be "active"; i.e., available to be grabbed. .
I agree
I also prefer the second frame to be a synchronized commentary of some type when I read the Bible and it is more natural to be on the right, but normally hidden.
One thing I sometimes do is leave the second panel slightly (1/2 inch) open which prevents the "edge tap" having any effect and doesn't take up much space. Not suggesting this is a solution but it might help at times
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