Differences between Eastern and Russian Orthodox Churches
What is the differences between Eastern Orthodox and Russian Orthodox Churches?
Recently I finished a series on the crusades. Their final lectures discussed some unintended results of the crusades. The Ottoman Turk Empire and the Reformation were two. Another was the rise of the Russian Orthodox Church. Do any of the current Orthodox resources discuss the differences between the two branches of the Orthodox Church? A well written chapter or section might do.
I have Orthodox Library Builder I just don't know where to start.
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Think of Christendom as split 3 ways - Rome, Constantinople, Antioch - Western, Eastern and Oriental respectively. Eastern Orthodoxy tended to divide along ethnic/linguistic/cultural/political boundaries so that you have:
- Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople
- Finnish Orthodox Church
- Estonian Apostolic Orthodox Church (autonomy not universally recognized)
- Patriarchal Exarchate for Orthodox Parishes of Russian Tradition in Western Europe (autonomy not universally recognized)
- Greek Orthodox Church of Alexandria
- Greek Orthodox Church of Antioch
- Greek Orthodox Church of Jerusalem
- Saint Catherine's Monastery (considered autocephalous by some)
- Russian Orthodox Church
- Latvian Orthodox Church (semi-autonomous)
- Moldovan Orthodox Church (autonomy not universally recognized)
- Ukrainian Orthodox Church (Moscow Patriarchate)
- Japanese Orthodox Church (autonomy not universally recognized)
- Chinese Orthodox Church
- Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia (semi-autonomous; not universally recognized)
- Estonian Orthodox Church of Moscow Patriarchate (semi-autonomous; not universally recognized)
- Serbian Orthodox Church
- Macedonian Orthodox Church (autonomy not universally recognized)
- Orthodox Ohrid Archbishopric
- Romanian Orthodox Church
- Bulgarian Orthodox Church
- Georgian Orthodox and Apostolic Church
- Cypriot Orthodox Church
- Church of Greece
- Polish Orthodox Church
- Orthodox Autocephalous Church of Albania (Albanian Orthodox Church)
- Czech and Slovak Orthodox Church
- Orthodox Church in America (autocephaly not universally recognized)
- Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the USA
- Bosnian Church (no longer in existence)
Theologically they are "the same" but you will find differences in expression in some aspects of theology. You will find differences in chant tones, sanctoral cycles etc. I've not seen anything that lists the differences. A Russian Orthodox priest filled me in on Russian Orthodox vs. Russian Orthodox in Exile (Abroad). And I know that authors such as Fr. Seraphim is instantly recognized as Russian while Anthony Bloom could be easily taken (erroneously) as Greek Orthodox but I'm not sure I could tell you why. http://oca.org/questions/namerica/greek-orthodox-and-russian-orthodox or http://www.monachos.net/conversation/topic/6207-what-is-the-difference-between-the-russian-and-greek-orthodox-churches/ may help.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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This thread lists some of the minor differences in expression between Greek Orthodox (which many in America mistakenly think is the only other type of Orthodox besides Russian, as evidenced even in the way the question was phrased) and Russian Orthodox:
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David Ames said:
What is the differences between Eastern Orthodox and Russian Orthodox Churches?
To make clear and explicit to all something in both MJ's and Rosie's responses, the Russian Orthodox Church is an Eastern Orthodox Church, just like the Greek Orthodox Church.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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SineNomine said:
To make clear and explicit to all something in both MJ's and Rosie's responses, the Russian Orthodox Church is an Eastern Orthodox Church, just like the Greek Orthodox Church.
Thanks to all three of you [and anyone else that joins them]
Rosie Perera said:
This thread lists some of the minor differences in expression between Greek Orthodox (which many in America mistakenly think is the only other type of Orthodox besides Russian, as evidenced even in the way the question was phrased) and Russian Orthodox:My question was "phrased" somewhat in ignorance. You three have taught me that the only differences are, as stated:
MJ. Smith said:
Think of Christendom as split 3 ways - Rome, Constantinople, Antioch - Western, Eastern and Oriental respectively. Eastern Orthodoxy tended to divide along ethnic/linguistic/cultural/political boundaries so that you have:
Theologically they are "the same" but you will find differences in expressionWhich is explained in the statement that they "tended to divide along ethnic/linguistic/cultural/political boundaries"
My 'source' seems to have put more emphasis into minor 'differences' then the differences require. And that the major real change might just have been the language used. Thanks.
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To further your education - Oriental Orthodoxy actually has a doctrinal division. It split at the Calcedonian Council from Rome and Constaninople - basically representing the Nestorian Christology. The following branches are in full communion i.e. same theology:
- The Coptic Orthodox Church of Alexandria
- The British Orthodox Church, canonically part of the Coptic Orthodox Church of Alexandria since 1994
- The Syriac Orthodox Church of Antioch (sometimes called 'Jacobite')
- Malankara Syriac Orthodox Church, a branch and integral part of the Syriac Orthodox Church with the Oriental Orthodox Patriarch of Antioch as its supreme head.
- The Church of Armenia (sometimes called the Armenian Apostolic Church)
- The Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church (sometimes called the Indian Orthodox Church)
- The Ethiopian Orthodox Church
- The Eritrean Orthodox Church
This branch, while not in full communion with Eastern Orthodoxy and Catholicism, has signed statements with both stating that there is no longer a Christological difference. Put another way, there is nothing but culture and history to keep Oriental Orthodoxy from reuniting with either Catholicism or Eastern Orthodoxy.
However, Oriental Orthodoxy also includes a branch not in communion with the group above. The Assyrian Church of the East still holds to a Nestorian Christology.
It is also worth noting that the Eastern rite Catholics are virtually indistinguishable from their Orthodox (Eastern or Oriental) counterparts.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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David Ames said:Rosie Perera said:
This thread lists some of the minor differences in expression between Greek Orthodox (which many in America mistakenly think is the only other type of Orthodox besides Russian, as evidenced even in the way the question was phrased) and Russian Orthodox:My question was "phrased" somewhat in ignorance. You three have taught me that the only differences are, as stated:
I'm so sorry, I didn't mean you when I wrote that. I meant the question in the thread I posted a link to, though in retrospect your question was also phrased similarly so my comment could have applied to it too, but I seriously wasn't even thinking that; wasn't trying to shame or embarrass you. Hope I didn't inadvertently hurt your feelings. I can be a klutz in online communications sometimes.
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Rosie Perera said:
I'm so sorry, I didn't mean you when I wrote that. I meant the question in the thread I posted a link to, though in retrospect your question was also phrased similarly so my comment could have applied to it too, but I seriously wasn't even thinking that; wasn't trying to shame or embarrass you. Hope I didn't inadvertently hurt your feelings. I can be a klutz in online communications sometimes.
I started the thread - Guilty.
Am NOT shamed nor embarrassed - I was wrong. My 'source' was wrong and I asked to be 'corrected' - Thank you for the correction.
But thanks for the 'apology' and thanks for all the rest of your 15000+ posts.
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David Ames said:
What is the differences between Eastern Orthodox and Russian Orthodox Churches?
The Russians won't let me into their churches wearing pants; the Greeks will.[:P]
(At least that's true in Israel; I don't know about the US.)
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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fgh said:
Welcome to this thread. Have seen that you have had continuing problems with Logos and the Forum. Nothing I can do but empathize. Thanks for joining.
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Hey David!
There isn't really such a thing as the Eastern Orthodox Church or even the Orthodox Church. This is a distinction drawn in order to differentiate between the Roman Catholic Church and the united, local churches of the 'East' (although they are now global). In 'inside' lingo, the Church is referred to as everything from the Catholic Church, to the Apostolic Greco-Roman Church of the East, to the Orthodox-Catholic Church, to ... well, you get the point.
But speaking conventionally, the Orthodox Church is a global communion of fourteen (or fifteen, depending on how you count) local, autocephalous, and autonomous churches, united by a common faith and Eucharistic fellowship.
For the most part, their distinctions are local and geographical, not ethnic or even linguistic (e.g. at my 'Greek' Orthodox parish, we use English, Arabic, and Greek in our services, and a third of our congregation is Lebanese/Syrian). In fact, it is a heresy of the Orthodox Church to govern or align churches by ethnicity or race.
As Orthodox Christians have migrated to the Western Hemisphere, we now have a quirky situation where different local churches overlap in the same area. The churches have been working to figure all of this out over the past century or so (a brief time in Orthodoxy), and it has been hindered largely by the rise and fall of Communism, along with other geo-political interferences. The pan-Orthodox council of 2016 aims to solve a lot of these peculiarities, as there is no canonical precedent to do so at this time.
While Orthodox churches share the same Tradition, piety, faith, etc., there are local customs and other differences that have arisen over the centuries. If someone were to speak to the 'differences' between the Russian or Greek churches, for example, this would likely be in regards to 'customs' or other non-essential practices.
There *are* some liturgical variations between the two major Typikons (a book that explains how to perform our services), but these have been around for ages. Truly, there is far more commonality or similarity in piety/liturgy among the Orthodox churches today than there ever was a century or even a millennium ago. There has been a 'flattening' of practices and services over the years, brought on no doubt by persecution and other concerns.
Hope this helps! [:)]
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Hope that their final 'documents' will be in Logos.Gabe Martini said:
The pan-Orthodox council of 2016 aims to solve a lot of these peculiarities, as there is no canonical precedent to do so at this time.
It does - thanks.Gabe Martini said:
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For an introduction to the council see: http://www.catholicworldreport.com/Item/3001/the_fragile_promise_of_the_panorthodox_council.aspx Yes, it is a Catholic source but it is an Orthodox author - a view of the council intended for the outsider.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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David Ames said:
Hope that their final 'documents' will be in Logos.Gabe Martini said:
The pan-Orthodox council of 2016 aims to solve a lot of these peculiarities, as there is no canonical precedent to do so at this time.Assuming it actually happens, we'll keep that in mind. [:D]
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FGH
In the Church my niece attended in Moscow there was a small group of young people who were mostly rediscovering their Orthodox faith. They had almost the opposite problem. They were young and zealous and went to church wearing skirts and head coverings, Some of the older, probably middle age women hassled them about dressing up, saying they shouldn't. The Priest ended up rebuking the older women, telling them to let the youngsters be.
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The biggest difference between the local churches is the food. Let's be real, here. [:P]
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