Request for critique of Bible study layout for participants not leader

Aargh - this post was lost as the site went down just as I was posting ...

Information tool to provide Bible dictionary look-up function
Reading list of the CCS Gospel of Matthew study in order that the text suggests. It includes links to the CSS site for supplemental materials and a Blessed Sacrament parish customization. the links to the lectures are not made. They may be purchased from CSS but not run from that site.
The Gospel of Matthew study guide from the Catholic Scripture Study series. This is the driver for the layout.
Multiple bibles - the top one is the RSV2CE requested by the text; NAB and NJB are the alternative I selected to meet the text request to also read in another translation.
Multiple commentaries - the Ignatius Catholic Study Bible is included because it is written by authors overlapping with the study guide. Catena Aurea is opened as a parish-specific resource. Catholic Commentary on Sacred Scripture, The Orthodox Bible Study Companion and Sacra Pagina are other candidates
The Catechism of the Catholic Church which is used in every lesson. There may be other church documents that belong in this pane.
Related documents: Passage List for Memory Verses, Note file for personal notes, Faithlife community notes (not yet present)

I'm looking for feedback on layout, choice of tools, choice of resources to support the CCS Bible Study Guide, general comments re: simplicity/complexity, potential confusion for new users ...

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Bruce Dunning

Aargh - this post was lost as the site went down just as I was posting ...

I've had that happen before too which is quite frustrating.

I'm looking for feedback on layout, choice of tools, choice of resources to support the CCS Bible Study Guide, general comments re: simplicity/complexity, potential confusion for new users ...

I generally like the layout. By your comments I'm guessing that you are planning to use this to recommend to new users so there is always a balance of not overwhelming them with too much information but still having immediate access to it. I understand that #3 is the "driver" of the layout but I personally would prefer having the Bible text in this larger pane in order to help provide immediate context.

NB.Mick

MJ,

like Bruce, I like your layout. I tried to recreate it (I used the CSSI Ruth book as a stand-in for Matthew). Some thoughts:

I'm a forty-something and use Logos with Program Scaling 110%. On my Acer notebook with 15.4" screen a layout with so many tiles contains not really much visible text per tile. On my 24" I was tempted to create more...

The bible study will ask users to look up bible verses somewhat related. If all bibles and commentaries are linked in one set, this causes only disturbance, people will get lost on their screen. For this reason I like to have another bible not part of the linked set (here the NLT) which is set so "send hyperlinks here" and will be usable for bible verse lookup - the other bibles and commentaries stay at the verse under study. I put it with the other bibles first (see below), after consideration I'd put it into to the CCC tile if you leave that intact.

Likewise, a major point of annoyance is the CSSI asking to re-read the "Points to ponder" - if I click the link, it will lead me to another place in my main window, but gives me no indication how long I'll have to scroll (and in what direction) to come back to the study question. Brr. For that reason I opened a second tab with the CSSI resource and again "send hyperlinks here" and thus the core study resource will not jump around but stay where I intend it to be when I follow any links.

Thus it looks like this (15.4" with 100% program scaling):

That said, I think it works at 100% scaling - I enlargened the CCC a bit to get a readable chunk - but I think users unaccustomed to Logos might still be overwhelmed. Consider reducing the number of tiles, e.g. putting the CCC into the bible or commentary tile and the passage list into the info tile, thus freeing up space.

In additiopn, I concur with Bruce that it might be preferabe to habe the bible in the large tile, especially since the bible study may be a larger chunk of text, not only one/two verses.

So, with keeping in the four column format, perhaps like this:

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/602069#Comment_602069

Since you're asking for comments/ideas, I've a few. First, I don't know how the study proceeds, so I can't provide specifics (meaning the layout should match the naturalness of the study flow). Thus my comments may be completely irrelevant.

- As with a magazine, advertisement, or art package, usually the area of desired 'work' should not be buried amongst supporting text blocks or tools. The 'point' should catch your eye and keep it. The techniques to do this are to play with the fonts, sizes, and margins (the latter in Logos only manipulable using columns relative to a resource).

- Typically there's a 'flow' you want or use. Left to right, right to left (Japan), top to bottom. Most significant 'work' should be at the start of the flow, or a directory to the flow (e.g. TOC, reading plan, etc).

- The 'busy-ness' of the tools should match the target user. Too many is similar to 'too long, didn't read it'. I notice that at church a lot. Simple, simple.

I think all of these, you already know. But I don't think Logos does, judging from their automatic layouts.

Brother Mark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/602081#Comment_602081

- The 'busy-ness' of the tools should match the target user. Too many is similar to 'too long, didn't read it'. I notice that at church a lot. Simple, simple.

I agree that simple and uncluttered is the key for focusing the attention of your learners. With that in mind, you have far more tiles open than can be addressed at the same time (by either the instructor or the student).

I'd suggest retaining all seven tiles in your layout, but open each of them in a floating window, then minimize them. Now you can ALT-TAB between the tiles as you focus on each resource in turn. I'd probably keep the guiding resource and Bible tabs open all of the time, and ALT-TAB through the other tiles as you refer to them. This approach reduces clutter and focuses the student's attention on only the resource(s) you are referencing at any given time.

The three minute attention span of your listeners mandates that they will be squinting at your other tiles instead of the one you are addressing if you leave them all up at the same time.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/602148#Comment_602148

Thanks for the help - here is a much improved version:

Reading List in task sequence linked to CCS Matthew, RSV2CE and CCS website. Links to lectures are unresolved; Information tool for Bible dictionary definitions.
User documents - private notes, community notes, Passage List for memory verses. (Second version of CCS Matthew with "send links here" set cannot be used because the Readling List tasks are also redirected to it.)
CCS Matthew, the study guide that drives the study and the selected commentaries so that they will open beside the Bibles.
Bibles and CCC so they will be open beside the study guide.

Much cleaner layout with better work flow logic ... but far less Logosian[;)]

What I'm up to. I'm trying to see if Logos is far enough along to make it possible to run parish-sponsored Bible study online. We are a university parish who frequently have parishioners drive significant distances to come to our services. We have a significant number of Microsoft employees as well as graduate students so we have a very tech savvy base. Mark Shea, one of the authors of CCS Matthew, is a member of the parish which is why I've been using it for testing. We are also < 2 hours from Bellingham so we might be able to get an official demo to start things off. I would also want to get either the director of adult faith formation or the seminarian on his practicum on board to answer questions that the group has not been able to resolve and to pose additional questions for discussion. We have a new pastor arriving soon so I haven't a clue as to whether or not I can sell the idea if testing makes it appear workable.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/602152#Comment_602152

Well, I sure wish you luck. What you seem to be doing would be great for the protestant counterparts too. Logos is an immense opportunity, the way you're approaching it.

Like the new layout; maybe you could have your introductory layout, and then your advanced layout (judging from who you're dealing with).

Paul C

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/602164#Comment_602164

What you seem to be doing would be great for the protestant counterparts too.

This could have benefitted you back in the Day when you were Catholic.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/602164#Comment_602164

What you seem to be doing would be great for the protestant counterparts too.

Actually, there is a good reason for starting in the Catholic/Orthodox sphere. With the use of early church fathers, church documents and greater use of comparing one passage to another, the rapid switch of multiple resources has more obvious benefit. Hence, people are more motivated to try the computer as a tool. A Protestant version would be more dictionary/atlas/commentary oriented. Note: I can name some Catholic scripture studies that would mirror the Protestant version - but they are not in Logos.