Interesting price comparison
Comments
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So? Why did you post this?
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Kent said:
Received this email
If you can't tell the difference between an eBook and a Logos resource you ought to stick with cheap stuff.
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Super.Tramp said:
If you can't tell the difference between an eBook and a Logos resource you ought to stick with cheap stuff.
You have a way with words.... I wouldn't call it a pastoral way, but you certainly have a way. [:P]
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I will buy them there. No problem for me.
Thanks for the link. I hope Logos will match them for everyone.
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mike said:
I hope Logos will match them for everyone.
Zondervan will not allow Logos to discount it's titles (so far.)
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I latched onto a couple of these when I received the email. I had one in my Logos wishlist but this will do for a start. If it's real useful, I'll definitely order it in Logos, but I'll get a head start on reading it for less than a trip to McDonalds.
The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter
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I wonder why Zondervan has such a poor relation with LOGOS. Two other electronic publishers are offering Word Biblical Commentary for $300. I had thought of mentioning this bargain assuming LOGOS would be offering it too. But when I checked Logos' website I was shocked to see the 59 volume set was still set at $699.
-Dan
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Dan Francis said:
I wonder why Zondervan has such a poor relation with LOGOS. Two other electronic publishers are offering Word Biblical Commentary for $300. I had thought of mentioning this bargain assuming LOGOS would be offering it too. But when I checked Logos' website I was shocked to see the 59 volume set was still set at $699.
This may shed some light: https://community.logos.com/forums/p/86686/608901.aspx#608901 (read the first link).
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Dan Francis said:
I wonder why Zondervan has such a poor relation with LOGOS.
I wouldn't call it a poor relationship as much as extenuating circumstances. I have been told Baker books also can not be discounted.
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Well it would be nice if the agency model that allows some to put things on an obviously publisher sanctioned sale could be offered by Logos. Now I have stated things properly I suppose but still frustrating. I remember in the past when Nelson had it under their control special offers on WBC seemed to crop up at both companies at the same time (the third company at that point did not publish WBC).
-Dan
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Dan Francis said:
I remember in the past
You remember correctly.
I don't mind paying a little more to have a book in Logos format but to never have a sale gets a little discouraging. If only Zondervan would have sale prices I guarantee they would sell a lot more books.
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Super.Tramp said:
I don't mind paying a little more to have a book in Logos format but to never have a sale gets a little discouraging. If only Zondervan would have sale prices I guarantee they would sell a lot more books.
Do you buy anything outside Logos? When buying a resource that is not likely to be used extensively, yet still needed for a period of time, buying it outside Logos because it is less expensive is the way to go. Students who need these resources for a class or paper are more likely to go cheaper and go outside Logos when necessary. Zondervan will capitalize on this demand.
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Kent said:
Do you buy anything outside Logos?
Yes. But only if it is not available in Logos and is not in the works.
- I do keep my BibleWorks up to date but I do not buy add-ons
- My last WordSearch purchase was the Complete Biblical Library
- I haven't purchased anything in Accordance for about three years now.
- I don't have a Kindle and I don't buy paper books for myself
Kent said:When buying a resource that is not likely to be used extensively, yet still needed for a period of time,
I like to own (and keep) all my books. I still have my Greek textbooks from the late 1970s
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fgh said:Dan Francis said:
I wonder why Zondervan has such a poor relation with LOGOS. Two other electronic publishers are offering Word Biblical Commentary for $300. I had thought of mentioning this bargain assuming LOGOS would be offering it too. But when I checked Logos' website I was shocked to see the 59 volume set was still set at $699.
This may shed some light: https://community.logos.com/forums/p/86686/608901.aspx#608901 (read the first link).
This information about the 'Agency Model' is, as I understand, no longer correct and I don't understand why a Logos employee (Phil Gons) would quote an article from 2010 from the ECPA website. If they are (still) following the agency model which the American DOJ went after publishers, as well as Apple, for then the DOJ (to be fair and consistent — if one believes the DOJ can be fair) should equally go after and sue Christian publishers and Logos (not personally saying they should of course).
Here is an information page about the agency model.
Of course the fact that Amazon was using the previous (and now after the DOJ efforts returned) model to drive out all competition and become a monopoly, and worse
http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2012/04/understanding-amazons-strategy.html
is another topic.
"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein
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Patrick S. said:
This information about the 'Agency Model' is, as I understand, no longer correct
I don't think the "agency model" has been eliminated, I think it has been modified. Some books on Amazon say "Sold by: Amazon Digital Services." Others list the agency (publisher). See below:
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alabama24 said:Patrick S. said:
This information about the 'Agency Model' is, as I understand, no longer correct
I don't think the "agency model" has been eliminated, I think it has been modified. Some books on Amazon say "Sold by: Amazon Digital Services." Others list the agency (publisher). See below:
That, I believe, relates only to the publisher, which in the first case you list is Amazon, not the selling model (wholesale or agency model). Amazon is also a publisher as well as a retailer of books sold by a (other) publishing house.
Regardless of which publishing house is the publisher of the book title the selling mode is back to wholesale — which Amazon now is continuing with in its plan to become a monopoly and a monopsony (def. only one buyer facing many sellers). For the monopsony aspect one only needs to look at what Amazon is doing with the Hachette publishing house.
"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein
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Patrick S. said:
That, I believe, relates only to the publisher, which in the first case you list is Amazon, not the selling model (wholesale or agency model). Amazon is also a publisher as well as a retailer of books sold by a (other) publishing house.
The book I listed before was NOT an Amazon published book. Here are two more screen shots, from NOOK. These books are published by major publishing companies:
Notice that the Harper Collins book is "Sold by HARPERCOLLINS" whereas the Houghton Mifflin Harcourt book is "Sold by Barnes & Noble."
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alabama24 said:
The book I listed before was NOT an Amazon published book. Here are two more screen shots, from NOOK. These books are published by major publishing companies:
Notice that the Harper Collins book is "Sold by HARPERCOLLINS" whereas the Houghton Mifflin Harcourt book is "Sold by Barnes & Noble."
There are two things being talked about here.
Firstly we need to be clear... the agency model is gone, finished. If you want to argue about that you'll need to talk to Judge Denise Cote who had her mind made up about that before the DOJ trial against the publishers and Apple even started. So there is no agency model, only the original wholesale model.
Second, regardless of who is listed as the publisher or the seller on Amazon — to you, as the end consumer, it is sold by (in the examples below) Amazon using the wholesale model. If you buy from Amazon you pay Amazon, whoever Amazon buys from upstream is irrelevant to this discussion. The wholesale vs the agency model discussion only applies to the final seller / end consumer transaction.
I'm sure everyone is aware of the publishing structure but to reiterate — the publisher is the organisation which works with authors, editors, book designers etc. etc. to create a book. The publisher may belong/sell to an intermediary book 'distributor' company (see last example below) which then sells books at wholesale price to a retailer. Amazon wants to control the whole process from start to finish because they want control, for control's sake, and to maximise (monopolise) profits. The issue many people have is that Amazon couldn't — really — give a hoot about quality or 'literature', they are (mainly) only interested in money, so they will tend to drive down the quality of books because [in the end] no-one will be making any money except Amazon.
"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein
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Obviously, someone is hot on the trail of Amazon. Sitting in its boardroom. Listening to the Jeff mumbling as he's sleeping. Talking to spouses to detect Amazon's motives. It's quite similar to religionist leaders who happily discuss what God thinks, his motives, and exactly what he's doing. At any given time too!
Capitalism is inherently monopolistic. Even in a small town, a mom/pop grocer attempts to control prices, drive out competition, etc. Back when Walmart was growing, the accusations were the same. Where the problem occurs is where prices are dropped to kill competitors, and then raised in their absence. Apple & Co. were simply banding together to raise prices.
Amazon is successful due to its customers (me), and processes (still the best). Authors/publishers are squealing because they want to be on the train, but they also want to charge their prices/margins. Walmart said 'no'. Amazon can equally say 'no'. The author/publishers don't yet have the equivalent of expensive malls to maintain their image/price structure.
This is where Bob & Co. have been smart. Boutique software to sit underneath a higher price structure. So far, it has a market that values it.
Now, the same is occurring in health care. Controlled doctor-creation managed pricing. Insurance companies attempted to control the customer market pricing. Hospitals are fighting back by monopolizing the local markets (as here in northern Arizona, a single supplier buying up everything).
Capitalism marches onward.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Patrick - I'm not trying to argue about what should be. I am not taking sides for Amazon or Apple (although Apple WAS unfairly treated in the deal, IMO). Nevertheless the "agency model" isn't dead... At least not technically. See this article: http://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/digital/retailing/article/62349-will-the-agency-model-survive.html#path/pw/by-topic/digital/retailing/article/62349-will-the-agency-model-survive.html
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Hi Denise
As I reply to you remember, you made the statements I am responding to...
Denise said:Obviously, someone is hot on the trail of Amazon. Sitting in its boardroom. Listening to the Jeff mumbling as he's sleeping. Talking to spouses to detect Amazon's motives. It's quite similar to religionist leaders who happily discuss what God thinks, his motives, and exactly what he's doing. At any given time too!
Nope — don't need to, Jeff Bezos/Amazon communicate their business plan very clearly, and publicly, in many ways. I also read American commentary about Amazon. So it is pretty clear that Amazon wants to kill all competition — and once it's only them facing both sellers and buyers guess what...
Denise said:Capitalism is inherently monopolistic.
Unfortunately dictionaries, even American ones, disagree with you.
"Capitalism, an economic system...determined mainly by competition in a free market" http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/capitalism
It's not the point, the issue, that "capitalism is inherently monopolistic" but that people are inherently greedy (evil), or as someone once said "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (I don't need to provide you a citation for that quote do I?) As all individuals have a propensity to evil, with respect to economics one hopes that governments, who should have the good of the people at heart, would enact laws to minimise this evil — when open and fair competition is being abused.
Denise said:Capitalism marches onward.
You know I am almost offended by that statement. Capitalism, as it seems to be generally practised in America, is not a pretty sight. I wonder sometimes if Americans understand the depth of incredulity people of other nations feel when they read things which happen in America in the name of 'capitalism' (BTW I am in no way a socialist — just to head that off in case you want to label me so). For example, workers in Walmart who receive such a pittance of a wage that they cost US taxpayers $6.2 billion in welfare including... food stamps?! A health system that bankrupts people, health insurance companies who do all they can to deny money to people who are legally entitled to it. Meanwhile the cost of health to consumers in the US is on the order of 5/10/20 times more than that in other western/capitalist countries.
Yep, [American] capitalism, i.e. unrestrained greed, marches on — but I would suggest to you that it's not something to boast about.
"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein
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alabama24 said:
Patrick - I'm not trying to argue about what should be. I am not taking sides for Amazon or Apple (although Apple WAS unfairly treated in the deal, IMO). Nevertheless the "agency model" isn't dead... At least not technically. See this article: http://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/digital/retailing/article/62349-will-the-agency-model-survive.html#path/pw/by-topic/digital/retailing/article/62349-will-the-agency-model-survive.html
Hi Alabama — wasn't try to argue either as to what it should be, more the point that I thought (and I checked with my wife who is indirectly in the business and she agreed) that the agency model had been torpedeoed (in the US).
Thanks for the link and clarification — well actually I have to confess the article muddied the waters for me. It seems to get more complicated.
Ultimately, for me as a Logos customer, I trust we can see some competitive pricing — understanding of course that there is a large amount of value add that Logos puts on top of the 'raw' book which obviously they need to recoup and, of course, get a profit.
"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein
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Now, Patrick. I've never met a businesswoman or businessman that checks their dictionaries to see how to run their business. Nor spends too much time on assigned labels. Results count.
And yes, when you run a major fix-cost enterprise, market share maximization is critical. That was the magic of Walmart. The magic of Amazon. And the magic that publishers/authors need to learn.
I grew up on Ayn Rand, after leaving the church. Coming back 30 years later, modern day Christiandom and Ayn Rand are synonymous. Sunday mornings they discuss the best ways not to help the poor (since it hurts them so much). Best locations for soup kitchens (not here). And Dorothy Day was lost in space. Logos even has a resource on the best techniques for 'poor' handling (true).
So tell me about greed.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Denise said:
I've never met a businesswoman or businessman that checks their dictionaries to see how to run their business. Nor spends too much time on assigned labels.
Your probably right, however, you could always ask the author of this book- Fire someone
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Denise said:
So tell me about greed.
I don't know much about greed but hunger is a good motivator. 2 Thessalonians 3:10
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Patrick S. said:
Meanwhile the cost of health to consumers in the US is on the order of 5/10/20 times more than that in other western/capitalist countries.
Yep, [American] capitalism, i.e. unrestrained greed, marches on — but I would suggest to you that it's not something to boast about.
The last 50 years the government has taken over about half (before the 2010 law) of health care. No wonder it is more expensive and bureaucratic. Socialist systems lower costs by postponing and denying care (like the VA).
Free market capitalism (note the necessary modifier) is being replaced with crony capitalism. Btw, all economic systems run by humans are greedy. Thomas Sowell's book A Conflict of Visions (not in Logos) is a good primer on world views.
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Denise said:
I grew up on Ayn Rand, after leaving the church. Coming back 30 years later, modern day Christiandom and Ayn Rand are synonymous.
I read Ayn Rand's book Atlas Shrugged 4 times, the first in the early 1960's. The 3rd time I read it I was a Christian and no longer liked it. The 4th and last time was 3 or so years ago and it was worse than I remembered (note: I'm a free market capitalist). Rand hated Christianity.
Here is an excellent review of Atlas Shrugged by Whittaker Chambers
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