Logos only lets your transfer book Licenses once???
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Helen said:
Did Bob ever explain the, "Once transferred, items may not be transferred again" quote? Has it been confirmed that this is logos policy or is it not?
See his response in this post. https://community.logos.com/forums/p/88357/621721.aspx#621721 and this one also https://community.logos.com/forums/p/88357/621852.aspx#621852 There are a few more on that same page.
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
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Welcome to the forums Helen.
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
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Thanks Lynden! [:)]
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Helen said:
Did Bob ever explain the, "Once transferred, items may not be transferred again" quote? Has it been confirmed that this is logos policy or is it not?
These are the facts I have gleaned so far:
- Logos Customer Service sent me an email saying "Once transferred, items may not be transferred again"
- Bob Pritchett has said there has been no change in policy
- My Pre-Pub and Community Pricing orders have shrunk by $30,000+ this week
- Bob Pritchett has said Logos will do the right thing (Right for who? - I ask)
- Bob Pritchett has said you can will your library to an heir that can will it to another
- Logos has NOT said I can SELL you an individual license that you can then SELL
I think the lack of a guaranteed portability of resources significantly diminishes the value of all Logos resources.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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[:(]
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Super.Tramp said:Helen said:
Did Bob ever explain the, "Once transferred, items may not be transferred again" quote? Has it been confirmed that this is logos policy or is it not?
These are the facts I have gleaned so far:
- Logos Customer Service sent me an email saying "Once transferred, items may not be transferred again"
- Bob Pritchett has said there has been no change in policy
- My Pre-Pub and Community Pricing orders have shrunk by $30,000+ this week
- Bob Pritchett has said Logos will do the right thing (Right for who? - I ask)
- Bob Pritchett has said you can will your library to an heir that can will it to another
- Logos has NOT said I can SELL you an individual license that you can then SELL
I think the lack of a guaranteed portability of resources significantly diminishes the value of all Logos resources.
Bob Pritchett said:But the bottom line -- now, as always -- is that we'll do the right thing for our users.
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Sorry to reopen this can of worms again. But Bob, does the "Right Thing" mean sometime logos might transfer a book license more than once and sometimes they might not depending on the situation, person, or possible abuse?
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I hope Bob answers you but I do want to add; I have purchased over $50,000 worth of resources directly from Logos. I have transferred resources to others less than 10 times. I have kept 14,600+ resources. I got the notice in an email this week. Bob has not yet told me if I am an "abuser" or if the Rep made a mistake. Hoping it is the latter.Helen said:Sorry to reopen this can of worms again. But Bob, does the "Right Thing" mean sometime logos might transfer a book license more than once and sometimes they might not depending on the situation, person, or possible abuse?
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Something Does seem to be awry. If Purchasing $50,000 worth of resources and committing untold hours to the forum police doesn't warrant a couple of transfers, What would?Super.Tramp said:I have purchased over $50,000 worth of resources directly from Logos.
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Super.Tramp said:Helen said:
Did Bob ever explain the, "Once transferred, items may not be transferred again" quote? Has it been confirmed that this is logos policy or is it not?
These are the facts I have gleaned so far:
- Logos Customer Service sent me an email saying "Once transferred, items may not be transferred again"
- Bob Pritchett has said there has been no change in policy
- My Pre-Pub and Community Pricing orders have shrunk by $30,000+ this week
- Bob Pritchett has said Logos will do the right thing (Right for who? - I ask)
- Bob Pritchett has said you can will your library to an heir that can will it to another
- Logos has NOT said I can SELL you an individual license that you can then SELL
I think the lack of a guaranteed portability of resources significantly diminishes the value of all Logos resources.
Matthew,
I really think you should take this offline with Bob in a private one-on-one call. You are the veteran user and have years of experience with the company that go far beyond a customer relationship and it hurts me to see that one ill-worded mail hit you in a vulnerable spot.
Mick
NB: This thread has gone full cycle twice now - maybe Logos should close it down.
Have joy in the Lord!
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Welcome to the forums, Helen. I must say you hit the ground running. You seem very attuned to the environment. [:D]Helen said:Sorry to reopen this can of worms again. But Bob, does the "Right Thing" mean sometime logos might transfer a book license more than once and sometimes they might not depending on the situation, person, or possible abuse?
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Well, gee, Paul. Maybe I misunderstood, what with my rosary beads and spanish resources (Logos marketing seems to have narrowed me down to somewhere south of the border).
NB ... what is gained by putting the issue under the carpet? It affects anyone that rationalizes purchases (based on Logos marketing's encouragement) that their unbelievably large license-constrained library can be transfered. I guess the latest is 'when you die'.
I can't speak for anyone else obviously, but I can guarantee I'd not have purchased so heavily. Goodness was I dumb. I forecasted an unload point based on watching other older folks, so that a younger whipper-snapper could benefit.
Carpet cleaning needs good solid cleaning approaches. Not a quickie.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Of course you are right. You already made a step in that direction with Lummox. ... or whomever. Now you have an opportunity to gift another such individual. I just thought it would be cool to have an heirloom you once pored over. I certainly don't "need" any more resources. I really have enjoyed our bantering. Hopefully you will still drop by. if not, I will certainly miss you. [:(]Denise said:so that a younger whipper-snapper could benefit.
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Welcome to the forums, Helen. I must say you hit the ground running. You seem very attuned to the environment.
I am actually new to the Logos world. I don't own any software yet but I am currently being trained in how to use it. It is an excellent program. I am amazed at what it all can do. And I must confess, this topic is very interesting to me. If I am to invest a lot of money with logos, I would first like to know how the book license work. I would like to know before hand exactly what I can and can't do with my books. I do hope this topic doesn't get swept under the carpet.
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I've been mostly awk this week, so this thread was quite a doozy to come back to.
Here's my big question after reading all of this: Do we actually own a license when we buy it? If so, should we not be permitted to resell it (especially when it comes with the $20 transfer fee)? If we cannot sell it, do we own it?
I still don't understand Bob's fear of somebody buying a single resource and then passing it around the class. If the class were 20 people, then Logos would collect $400 in revenue for the transfers. As Mr. Childs pointed out, why would the class not each buy the resource and then return it within the 30 day window? Honestly, why wouldn't this hypothetical colluding class not just have one person buy the book, copy/paste the text and anything else that's needed out of it, and then have that one student return it?
I have trouble seeing how the transfer system could be abused--at least in a way that compares to the potential abuse of the return system (that one could be orders of magnitude worse). When I sell a resource, I no longer own it or have access to it. There are still the same number of total licenses that the publisher has sold (as if they've sold that many books). (And yes, I know electronic != physical books, but that's true of the distribution system too, so don't complain to me that the digital wares don't break down like physical products when you don't even have to produce the physical products in the first place.)
Final question after pondering this: is it ever doing the right thing by the customer when you exercise an "only one transfer" policy on licenses?
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Michael Childs said:
And I have even questioned some of the Good Lord's decisions from time to time. I remember just last week saying, "Lord, I don't believe I would have done that if I were you."
Know that feeling. Also know that it is a good thing that He is God and I am not [8-|]
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William Gabriel said:
I've been mostly awk this week, so this thread was quite a doozy to come back to.
Here's my big question after reading all of this: Do we actually own a license when we buy it? If so, should we not be permitted to resell it (especially when it comes with the $20 transfer fee)? If we cannot sell it, do we own it?
I still don't understand Bob's fear of somebody buying a single resource and then passing it around the class. If the class were 20 people, then Logos would collect $400 in revenue for the transfers. As Mr. Childs pointed out, why would the class not each buy the resource and then return it within the 30 day window? Honestly, why wouldn't this hypothetical colluding class not just have one person buy the book, copy/paste the text and anything else that's needed out of it, and then have that one student return it?
I have trouble seeing how the transfer system could be abused--at least in a way that compares to the potential abuse of the return system (that one could be orders of magnitude worse). When I sell a resource, I no longer own it or have access to it. There are still the same number of total licenses that the publisher has sold (as if they've sold that many books). (And yes, I know electronic != physical books, but that's true of the distribution system too, so don't complain to me that the digital wares don't break down like physical products when you don't even have to produce the physical products in the first place.)
Final question after pondering this: is it ever doing the right thing by the customer when you exercise an "only one transfer" policy on licenses?
In simplified terms, a license by its very nature does not convey an ownership interest in the subject matter of that license. The terms of the license convey terms of use regarding something that the licensor (Logos) owns to the licensee (Us). Now the terms of a license can be written in a way (unlimited license) that someone receives rights that are essentially the same as the owner of the license subject matter, but that is still something short of complete ownership. Logos' license is not an unlimited license, rather it is limited in many important ways. Restricting the ability of the licensee to transfer or sublicense the subject matter is perfectly within the right of a licensor. The question before us relates to the ambiguity regarding those transfer terms vis-à-vis Logos. It may be that we as licensees simply need to adjust our thinking and expectations, but we have become accustomed to the print model where the tangible product may be readily transferred. But even in the print model, you don't technically own the contents (the work product of the author), rather you own the physical transmission medium (the paper) that contains the contents. This is one area where digital books have a distinct disadvantage over print and it is something that I believe the entire eBook industry is going to need to address as eBooks become more prevalent.
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From what Bob has communicated, it seems to me Logos only wants to allow people to transfer whole libraries not individual books or even sets of books. Which seems ok to me, especially seeing how time consuming the transfer process is. Though I do wish it wasn't so tedious because I think the ability to transfer a book license is great perk for logos. For example, I would love to, one day, be able to give my pastor some of the books in my library but not all. Also what if I want to give my whole library to someone who already has a logos library which has many of the books that I have. I assume the redundant book licenses will just be discarded which doesn't seem fair to me. That could be thousands of dollars worth of books that could be given to someone else. Whatever logos official policy is on this issue, it would be great if that information was clearly stated. As for now it just seems a little vague to me.
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NB.Mick said:
maybe Logos should close it down
Maybe Logos should address the real issue of license portability through sales.
You should know Bob and I have emailed each other by now. My last, and yet unanswered, questions to Bob are these:
When I spoke with Customer Service requesting a license transfer, they told me a transfer email form was necessary as a "legal document." When I got that form it included the following statement,
"Once transferred, items may not be transferred again.'
If that is not a policy statement, what is it doing in a "legal document" Logos sent me? If it is not a policy statement, how am I supposed to interpret it?
I think all Logos customers should know what the policy is.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Super.Tramp said:
- Bob Pritchett has said you can will your library to an heir that can will it to another
- Logos has NOT said I can SELL you an individual license that you can then SELL
ST, have you heard anything new from Logos on this? Are there any updates?
What concerns me in this digital environment is how fast access can be turned off. For the record, I do believe Bob and am totally confident in his promise "to do the right thing by the customer" BUT
things change, people die and companies get bought out. I think the assumption that resources we buy can be sold in perpetuity is naive at this point because it was only promised in a "I give you my word" kind of way on a forum, not as a written clause of an enforceable contract. This is unfortunate!
another thought:
I totally agree with logos' requirement that when resources were bought as a collection they can only be sold or transferred as a collection, and I cannot say "I want to keep this one resource and sell the rest." However, let's say I die and my heirs receive my entire library. Is it transferred as ONE collection, or my individual orders preserved and all these records passed down, so my heirs can sell/transfer single purchases, while maintaining ownership over the rest?
I am really hoping that the latter is true, but see how it can be a HUGE burden for Logos to maintain and backup this database.
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wait wait, so your library is mexican catholic? thats a whole different storyDenise said:Well, gee, Paul. Maybe I misunderstood, what with my rosary beads and spanish resources (Logos marketing seems to have narrowed me down to somewhere south of the border).
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Just kidding. I hope you are able to resolve things and are able to stick around. Not sure where we'd be without our daily dose of sarcasm
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Paul C said:
[^o)] HHHMMMmmm [^o)]
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By the way, if this thread is ever canceled, someone please start a new thread picking up where this one left off. This really is an important issue and just saying, "we will do the right thing" does not fix the problem. This discussion needs to continue until this license issue is completely resolved and clearly stated for us all to see. Everyone should understand this is not just something concerning a few but all logos book owners.
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Helen said:
By the way, if this thread is ever canceled, someone please start a new thread picking up where this one left off. This really is an important issue and just saying, "we will do the right thing" does not fix the problem. This discussion needs to continue until this license issue is completely resolved and clearly stated for us all to see. Everyone should understand this is not just something concerning a few but all logos book owners.
Logos won't delete the thread. They've only ever deleted spam threads. For any weaknesses we might be able to point out about Logos, this is not one of them--they are willing to listen and dialog through any criticism.
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William Gabriel said:
Logos won't delete the thread. They've only ever deleted spam threads. For any weaknesses we might be able to point out about Logos, this is not one of them--they are willing to listen and dialog through any criticism.
That is not true... although the threads I have seen deleted had got particularly mean spirited and or racked with theological arguments. I have not noticed that here but deletion of a thread happens now and then.
-Dan
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William Gabriel said:
they are willing to listen and dialog through any criticism.
We are waiting.
BTW: Logos is reluctant to delete any thread other than SPAM. It takes highly offensive comments and a lot of begging to get one deleted. But it does happen. (maligning Mexican Catholics is a start towards deletion)
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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HHHMMMmmm 
