Keylinks and Parallel Associations

How do you define keylinks and parallel resources resources in v4? I can only find the prioritize setting in the library, and that seems very cumbersome. In v3 I had
EVERY resource in a parallel association so I could arrow through all
equivalent resources with ease. And I had all my keylinks established for all the various data types, so I could right click on any word and a have a menu of 8 different "collections" like Morris Proctor teaches in Logos Camp II. This is where the power of Logos came from. At this point, I can hardly use v4 for anything other than casual reading of open references.

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Dave Hooton

We are all struggling with this!

J.R. Miller

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/7621#Comment_7621

I asked this too. I am still confused, so it must not just be me.

Damian McGrath

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/7631#Comment_7631

it's not just you

Bob Pritchett

Parallel Resource Associations are replaced in 4.0 by the New Tab button (and the left/right arrow keyboard shortcut). If you prioritize your resources, the list presented on the right-side of "New Tab" should be your parallels for the active data type. (And right and left arrow cycle through these.) The left side of the "New Tab" suggests related resources to the one you that was open when you clicked the tab.

(Shortcut: Double-clicking to the right of the "+" on the tab strip will automatically open a new tab to the next parallel resource -- a comination of a new tab and the right arrow key.)

I know that Morris teaches some pretty cool tricks with PRA's, as he calls them; these involve grouping specific sets of resources. But we're concerned that this feature is way beyond the horizon of discoverability, (does anyone who didn't attend Camp Logos do this?), and we're trying to find a way to give the same benefit without requiring manual assembly of (the scarily-named) Parallel Resource Associations.

I'm very interested to hear what you're missing, or examples of what you wish you could do in 4.0 and can't.

spitzerpl

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/7636#Comment_7636

If you prioritize your resources, the list presented on the right-side of "New Tab" should be your parallels for the active data type.

could you provide a screen shot of this. I am failing to see the list or the "New Tab" you are refering to.

Bob Pritchett

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/7640#Comment_7640

The "New Tab" is what you get when you click the "+" to the right of a resource-title tab, while looking at a resource.

spitzerpl

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/7640#Comment_7640

If you prioritize your resources, the list presented on the right-side of "New Tab" should be your parallels for the active data type.

could you provide a screen shot of this. I am failing to see the list or the "New Tab" you are refering to.

Scratch that. I see what your talking about. but what if I want to open a specific translation in the current tab without rotating through them all. I would love to see a two column menu when you right click on a tab. The first column would have the options that currently exist. The second column would have a list of "parallel, prioritized resources." You could also make use of tags and ratings to select listed items rather then priority.

Christopher W. Myers

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/7644#Comment_7644

I also noticed that you can right click the resources that you prioritize and that gives you the ability to "Set prioritization limits", which is cool

Damian McGrath

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/7636#Comment_7636

I know that Morris teaches some pretty cool tricks with PRA's, as he calls them; these involve grouping specific sets of resources. But we're concerned that this feature is way beyond the horizon of discoverability, (does anyone who didn't attend Camp Logos do this?), and we're trying to find a way to give the same benefit without requiring manual assembly of (the scarily-named) Parallel Resource Associations.

Obviously the current system is "discoverable" as someone did discover the use of the left/right arrows. But, I didn't. I don't even know if it's intuitive. I would still like some sort of parallel resource drop down at the top of the pane.

I've found that I had to prioritise a number of bibles but that I need to have two bibles at the top of the priority list and others down the bottom, otherwise only bibles appear in the right-click context menu for bible references.

Wyn Laidig

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/7636#Comment_7636

Bob,

V4 tabs don't have NEARLY the power that we got from the PRAs. I love how v3 allows me to group together similar resources, and order them how I want, indepentant of data type. For example, I have separate PRAs for commentaries for every book of the Bible. If I open an commentary on Acts, I'll see my 12 or so other commentaries on Acts listed in the order I define in the parallel resource list. I can arrow through the list quickly and easily, with each commentary on Acts opening to the verse I'm looking at. This is very powerful. Version 4 won't allow it, since it will classify all commentaries as the same data type, and their will be a huge list of prioritized resources for that data type.

I really don't like the idea that you are taking away the power features just because the majority of people won't be able to access them. Defining your own PRAs as something independant of data type is VERY POWERFUL feature that shouldn't be lost.

Richard Stevens

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/7819#Comment_7819

I agree WynLaidig.

One further thing I have noticed and that is when you click on the + button it generates a whole list of parallel resources for that book after some time depending upon how many resources you have. However when you click on any one of those parallel books from the list the whole list of books disappear as it displays the book you have just clicked. Consequentially if you want to view all those resources again you have to close that current book and select the previous book to do another parallel scan, therefore a suggestion could there be to pin this page until you close it manually; I tried to float it too but to no avail as well.

Harry Hahne

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/7636#Comment_7636

The Resource Associations was great feature. One thing that I did was to associate the Septuagint as a Serial Resource Association with the Nestle Aland Greek New Testament. Then if I jumped from New Testament to Old Testament, it would open automatically. Also, for some reason all the Word Biblical Commentaries did not properly move from book to book. Both of these Serial Resource Associations could be fixed by Logos and I would not miss them.

As far as Parallel Resource Associations goes, I set up commentary types together, so the more scholarly commentaries are in one group and the devotional commentaries in another. I also set up the maps so they were a Parallel Resource Association. Again, this could be changed by Logos.

Trey Selman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/7636#Comment_7636

I am glad you asked. So that my answer will not be selfish whining but a response to your request.[;)]

Right Left arrow cycling is important. I really liked being able to limit my list to those in the resource association. This has been one of my favorite and most used tools.

I really liked being able to cycle (loop) all the way through that limited list of resources. And being able to put them in a specific order so i was a few clicks away right or left arrow from my chosen list resources

e.g. with a hypothetical group of 4 resources I could go 1 2 3 4 1 or 1 4 3 4 1.

Now the number 1 is the highest priority and I can only go one direction, then to get back I have to backtrack. Also, when the end of my prioritized list is reached it goes on to cycle through resources that I care much less to work with on a regular basis. To get back to my #1 priority I have to cycle back through the list 1 2 3 4 3 2 1

Not being able to have similar control of this is a real bummer with L4.

I discovered this many years before attending Camp Logos. But I have been with you a long time.

I figured the new tab button was the replacement for the PRA button. While this is nice it is less valuable for study than the PRA button dropdown list. This enabled me to quickly skip straight to other resources and was much more efficient than the new implementation.

While there are many things I love about L4, In some areas, I hate to say this, (and it is just my opinion based on how I work with these tools) but in trying to make some things easier for folks, Bible study (for me) is now more cumbersome and tools like this one, have gone backwards and not forwards.

While it MAY not be discoverable, I am not sure the current changes make it MORE discoverable. But I think it's clear (my opinion) that it's less useful. I guess that depends on perspective. IF it is more discoverable (not convinced) then more may use it. But it is still a lesser tool than the previous implementation.

I would like to request consideration for limiting the cycling of like resources to those which have been placed in the priority list and allow these resources to " fully loop" only this limited list of resources as they are cycled with the left right arrows. This provides greater control and quicker access to the most used (prioritized) resources. I prefer the PRA button (a new name would be needed - Preferred Resource list [not very good]) - it is faster than using the new tab feature as a replacement. I do like the new tab feature and it is a great addition to be able to more quickly open a "like" resource that is not in the (wished for) "limited" priority resource list (but may be sought for reference on rare occasions). But the PRA button was quicker to jump to resources (especially if the list is long) and less cluttered than a new tabbed resource.

I do understand the desire to make things "just work" for folks new to the program. I get it and I buy it. I think some great things have been done to move that direction. I am confident this will pay off. But is it also necessary to take away these powerful Bible study functions? Has the pendulum swung too far? I am trying to give the benefit of the doubt and work within the new system but I am finding that I do think there was a little too much snipped in some areas. (And I don't mean functions that have said will be added in future updates) I do think that some of the directions (prioritize list) are a better way but is it not possible to keep the power while changing the manner in which it is implemented. The terminology to prioritize is a good thing. It makes much more sense than Parallel Resource Association. (I do understand there is more to this than just a different implementation of Resource Associations). But honestly I am not sure that it is any more discoverable and to beat a dead horse some areas are less powerful and less beneficial. I do get it - more support calls, costs more. I want you to be able to direct more resources to more beneficial areas, too. I want you to make money and lots of it so that you can keep going. You are very gracious and have given a great deal and I am grateful. I am just hoping there is a way to make the necessary and beneficial changes AND keep the power of the functions and customization that allows the tool to work for different individuals. I really miss the ability to customize some things and am hoping some of this will return.

I do try very hard to train people in these tools. And I do promote this program. It is easy, because I love it. I have loved it since Logos 1.0 - 1992.

The minute I saw the ad in Christian Computing Magazine 1992, I purchased it and have not turned for a minute.

Robert Pavich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/23786#Comment_23786

I would like to request consideration for limiting the cycling of like resources to those which have been placed in the priority list and allow these resources to " fully loop" only this limited list of resources as they are cycled with the left right arrows. This provides greater control and quicker access to the most used (prioritized) resources. I prefer the PRA button (a new name would be needed - Preferred Resource list [not very good]) - it is faster than using the new tab feature as a replacement. I do like the new tab feature and it is a great addition to be able to more quickly open a "like" resource that is not in the (wished for) "limited" priority resource list (but may be sought for reference on rare occasions). But the PRA button was quicker to jump to resources (especially if the list is long) and less cluttered than a new tabbed resource.

Agreed.

Logos....we like what you've done BUT I wanna only do the limited cycle and around again...!! We are lazy people! [:D] Please think about somehow making this happen in V4...

If this were done...then I'd be more than satisfied.

LimJK

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/23828#Comment_23828

Bob,

What we have now is one large Prioritization List (1 PRA), which many of us in this forum (I paid about USD400 for those MP DVDs to learn that trick and am grateful for that, others attended the workshop) are concern about.

If you can implement Prioritization with some "predetermined structure" (Logos decided), that might be a possible solution that in somewhere resolved your concern for usability for folks who may not be able to attend Logos training by MP, but at the same time help those of us who are so used to PRAs , and really, really missed that. It is not a minor thing, it is something significant!

Thinking aloud, neither do we need a free form PRA of v3. We just want want the left / right arrow to bring up the next parallel resource.

I am suggesting just a few Catagories .... others may have their own requirements

First Catatory - Commentaries can we have 4 .... use what you have in your Guide to Commentaries and the Classification there.

Language Commentaries - eg. WBC, NIC, NIGNT, UBS, etc
Pastoral Commentaries - eg. Annotated Bible, MacArthur, Pulpit, Bible Speaks, Boice, College, Crossway, MacLeren, NAC, etc.
Lay People Commentaries - eg. Matthew Henry, etc.
Study Bible - NLT, MacArthur, etc

Second Catagory - Bibles

English
Greek/Hebrew
Chinese
... etc.

Third Catagory (English Data Type)

Bible Dictionaries
Commercial English Dictionary
Theology (Dictionaries, Theological Titles ...)
Archaeology
etc recommendation by MP ... things I might like to look up when I am dealing with an English Word.

Fouth Catagory (Greek and Hebrew Lexicons), etc.

.... Let's define a few catagories that will give us the convenience of using left / right cursor key to get an alternative article. I do not need to mark around with the PRA and SRA