Lack of Tagging
I just wanted to voice my frustrations with the lack of tagging in many resources in Logos. I was just reading through, New Testament Use of the Old Testament, and Beale is quoting and citing another newer commentary and there is no tagging whatsoever included.
The reason this is frustrating is because every time we complain about the premium for Logos resources we are told that it has to do with the extra work that goes into tagging them.
Yet this is common for me to come across these issues. Am I missing something?
Comments
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In the past, when I was actively using this resource for preparation, I had reported another bug. That still exists today - this resource in general seems to have poor tagging
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John Graves said:
Am I missing something?
I don't know. It is a case where timing is everything. If book A was released before production work on book B was started, Book B should be linked to book A but book A will not be linked to book B until we get another release of book A. That depends upon its priority in the queue ... some come quickly, some don't.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
I don't know. It is a case where timing is everything. If book A was released before production work on book B was started, Book B should be linked to book A but book A will not be linked to book B until we get another release of book A. That depends upon its priority in the queue ... some come quickly, some don't.
Until I experienced this problem, including with the Beale resource mentioned, here, I had assumed that all citations / references in all resources were "tagged" such that a reindex after a new resource was added would change those citations tags from inoperable / dead links to functioning links. That would be nice.
Donnie
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To me a perfect example of the problem for Faithlife is the Church Fathers where the datatypes are hit and miss. I understand why and would likely have made the same decision they did when the problems arose. But my inclination is always to build a global design and implement bits of it rather than designing for the bits.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I think that this problem is inherent in Logos's pricing structure, there is no money in updating old resources to update tagging when no one is directly paying for it.
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Mike Pettit said:
I think that this problem is inherent in Logos's pricing structure, there is no money in updating old resources to update tagging when no one is directly paying for it.
Logos is continually updating resources. There is a whole sub species of forum members whose sole purpose in posting is complaining about all the updates.
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alabama24 said:Mike Pettit said:
I think that this problem is inherent in Logos's pricing structure, there is no money in updating old resources to update tagging when no one is directly paying for it.
Logos is continually updating resources. There is a whole sub species of forum members whose sole purpose in posting is complaining about all the updates.
It updates some, but not surprisingly with the huge catalogue it only scratches the surface. Many of the updates do not even touch the tagging.
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Mike Pettit said:
I think that this problem is inherent in Logos's pricing structure, there is no money in updating old resources to update tagging when no one is directly paying for it.
But actually they do update old resources (even with a 'smart selection' feature nobody save Bob sees any need or even useful application for - which may show why he is the CEO and I'm not) - to the extent that we see threads every month where even people who make a point never to buy anything more in Logos complain they 'constantly' receive updates.
Have joy in the Lord!
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Mike Pettit said:
I think that this problem is inherent in Logos's pricing structure, there is no money in updating old resources to update tagging when no one is directly paying for it.
You earn a fallacy hound. We do get updates and a search of the forums would show that Bob mentioned how many people they had in the department - it was a reasonable number. The problem is the number of resources, the prioritization guidelines (MJ's favorites last ... not really) which weights in favor of resources broadly owned, etc.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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NB.Mick said:
(even with a 'smart selection' feature nobody save Bob sees any need or even useful application for
Come on, this isn't be unfair day is it - I think that Oct 30 the eve of the eve of all hallows day. People using touch screens have generally praised the feature.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Ha ha ha. That struck me as really funny. I wonder what sub species of forum members I would fit into? [;)]alabama24 said:There is a whole sub species of forum members whose sole purpose in posting is complaining about all the updates.
I'd put Alabama24 in the sub species of extremely knowledgeable and helpful.
I hope I don't fall into the get on Bob's last nerve sub species. [:D]
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There's a hint that Logos might be developing a supplementary heuristic that can generate links on-the-fly. This would cover such a need.
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Mike Pettit said:
there is no money in updating old resources to update tagging when no one is directly paying for it.
As others have said Logos is continually updating many resources. I've always appreciated this aspect of Logos and gives me confidence to continually invest in more resources. Sure not everything is the way I personally want it but overall I think it is excellent.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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Kevin Maples said:
Ha ha ha. That struck me as really funny.
Thanks. I'll be here all week. [;)]
I had thought about switching to cable (now that it is FINALLY available in my neighborhood), but I discovered that there are 5 GB caps on data usage each month. I guess I will stick with my slower-but-unlimited DSL.
From my understanding, things really are backwards here in the states. I have heard from several friends who live outside the US that their internet is MUCH higher speed AND unlimited (no caps).
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alabama24 said:
From my understanding, things really are backwards here in the states. I have heard from several friends who live outside the US that their internet is MUCH higher speed AND unlimited (no caps).
Maybe its just Virginia [;)] I have high speed cable with no cap (Time Warner) Of course, they do require a wheelbarrow load of cash each month [:'(]
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30/25 here in North Carolina for 45$ a month. No data cap.alabama24 said:Kevin Maples said:Ha ha ha. That struck me as really funny.
Thanks. I'll be here all week.
I had thought about switching to cable (now that it is FINALLY available in my neighborhood), but I discovered that there are 5 GB caps on data usage each month. I guess I will stick with my slower-but-unlimited DSL.
From my understanding, things really are backwards here in the states. I have heard from several friends who live outside the US that their internet is MUCH higher speed AND unlimited (no caps).
L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
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Its not the lack of updating I'm speaking of, the other commentary is a NIV Application commentary which was out when the Beale commentary was being worked on. It appears that they just did not do it when they originally produced this work.
It's frustrating to hear, "well they'll get around to updating these books someday" when we paid for a book that was supposed to be a "premium" product to begin with.
This is doubly frustrating when works such as NIC are less than half the cost in Olive Tree, I would gladly pay more for them in Logos but more than double seems a little steep for a product that may or may not be complete when I purchase it and may or may not ever get updated to what I was promised in the beginning.
Anyway, thanks for listening to my rant. I'm done complaining for this year. [:D]
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John, in cases where it is very clear that the link should have been made, I pepper Logos with typo reports on the missing links.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
a search of the forums would show that Bob mentioned how many people they had in the department - it was a reasonable number. The problem is the number of resources, the prioritization guidelines (MJ's favorites last ... not really) which weights in favor of resources broadly owned, etc.
Just wonder, could they use competent voluntary helpers among Logos customers for tagging - especially for some heavy theological original language books with only few users around but those books often have a dense population of references/links.
Gold package, and original language material and ancient text material, SIL and UBS books, discourse Hebrew OT and Greek NT. PC with Windows 11
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They might be able to - I don't know what it would cost to build a mechanism for volunteers to do it though.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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That's been suggested before, I'm pretty sure of that.
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MJ. Smith said:
John, in cases where it is very clear that the link should have been made, I pepper Logos with typo reports on the missing links.
Thanks MJ I do as well.
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Mike Pettit said:
I think that this problem is inherent in Logos's pricing structure, there is no money in updating old resources to update tagging when no one is directly paying for it.
Actually, I would think that Logos' pricing structure is precisely what gives them money to continue updating.
Remember that all resources are already fully paid for when shipping. Apart from what they have to pay the publisher, and a tiny percentage to cover marketing, accounting and CS, all sales after that are pure profit. Of course, that profit is what pays developers and so on, but some of it should definitely go to updating the resource itself. Those who bought a resource when it shipped may accept that it doesn't link to newer books, but those who buy it 5 years later won't be happy at all when they find out. To keep sales up, resources need to be updated.
alabama24 said:I have heard from several friends who live outside the US that their internet is MUCH higher speed AND unlimited (no caps).
I pay 199 SEK a month for 100 Mbit/s down and 10 up, unlimited. I could pay less and get less, or pay more and get more. On average, for the last few years, 1 USD has been about 6.75 SEK (though currently I think it's more like 7.35). That's cable. Since I don't own a smartphone, I'm not up to date on the prices for mobile, but they're more expensive, and seem to always have caps.
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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fgh said:
I pay 199 SEK a month for 100 Mbit/s down and 10 up, unlimited.
I pay $40 USD for ~3MB/s unlimited with DSL. With the local cable provider (there is only one choice, and until last month, there were none), I am offered 5MB/s for $50 USD with a 5GB cap per month. I could pay $60 USD for 10 MB/s and 10GB cap per month.
The same company offers a 101 MB/s for $199 USD.
I live in a city of nearly 80,000 with a "Metropolitan Statistical Area" of more than 250,000.
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