Lack of Tagging

I just wanted to voice my frustrations with the lack of tagging in many resources in Logos. I was just reading through, New Testament Use of the Old Testament, and Beale is quoting and citing another newer commentary and there is no tagging whatsoever included.

The reason this is frustrating is because every time we complain about the premium for Logos resources we are told that it has to do with the extra work that goes into tagging them.
Yet this is common for me to come across these issues. Am I missing something?

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Geo Philips

In the past, when I was actively using this resource for preparation, I had reported another bug. That still exists today - this resource in general seems to have poor tagging

http://community.logos.com/forums/p/83486/585227.aspx

MJ. Smith

Am I missing something?

I don't know. It is a case where timing is everything. If book A was released before production work on book B was started, Book B should be linked to book A but book A will not be linked to book B until we get another release of book A. That depends upon its priority in the queue ... some come quickly, some don't.

Donnie Hale

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/641316#Comment_641316

I don't know. It is a case where timing is everything. If book A was released before production work on book B was started, Book B should be linked to book A but book A will not be linked to book B until we get another release of book A. That depends upon its priority in the queue ... some come quickly, some don't.

Until I experienced this problem, including with the Beale resource mentioned, here, I had assumed that all citations / references in all resources were "tagged" such that a reindex after a new resource was added would change those citations tags from inoperable / dead links to functioning links. That would be nice.

Donnie

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/641326#Comment_641326

To me a perfect example of the problem for Faithlife is the Church Fathers where the datatypes are hit and miss. I understand why and would likely have made the same decision they did when the problems arose. But my inclination is always to build a global design and implement bits of it rather than designing for the bits.

Mike Pettit

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/641331#Comment_641331

I think that this problem is inherent in Logos's pricing structure, there is no money in updating old resources to update tagging when no one is directly paying for it.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/641340#Comment_641340

I think that this problem is inherent in Logos's pricing structure, there is no money in updating old resources to update tagging when no one is directly paying for it.

Logos is continually updating resources. There is a whole sub species of forum members whose sole purpose in posting is complaining about all the updates.

Mike Pettit

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/641343#Comment_641343

I think that this problem is inherent in Logos's pricing structure, there is no money in updating old resources to update tagging when no one is directly paying for it.

Logos is continually updating resources. There is a whole sub species of forum members whose sole purpose in posting is complaining about all the updates.

It updates some, but not surprisingly with the huge catalogue it only scratches the surface. Many of the updates do not even touch the tagging.

NB.Mick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/641340#Comment_641340

I think that this problem is inherent in Logos's pricing structure, there is no money in updating old resources to update tagging when no one is directly paying for it.

But actually they do update old resources (even with a 'smart selection' feature nobody save Bob sees any need or even useful application for - which may show why he is the CEO and I'm not) - to the extent that we see threads every month where even people who make a point never to buy anything more in Logos complain they 'constantly' receive updates.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/641340#Comment_641340

I think that this problem is inherent in Logos's pricing structure, there is no money in updating old resources to update tagging when no one is directly paying for it.

You earn a fallacy hound. We do get updates and a search of the forums would show that Bob mentioned how many people they had in the department - it was a reasonable number. The problem is the number of resources, the prioritization guidelines (MJ's favorites last ... not really) which weights in favor of resources broadly owned, etc.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/641347#Comment_641347

(even with a 'smart selection' feature nobody save Bob sees any need or even useful application for

Come on, this isn't be unfair day is it - I think that Oct 30 the eve of the eve of all hallows day. People using touch screens have generally praised the feature.

Kevin Maples

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/641343#Comment_641343

There is a whole sub species of forum members whose sole purpose in posting is complaining about all the updates.

Ha ha ha. That struck me as really funny. I wonder what sub species of forum members I would fit into? [;)]

I'd put Alabama24 in the sub species of extremely knowledgeable and helpful.

I hope I don't fall into the get on Bob's last nerve sub species. [:D]

Lee

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/641358#Comment_641358

There's a hint that Logos might be developing a supplementary heuristic that can generate links on-the-fly. This would cover such a need.

Bruce Dunning

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/641340#Comment_641340

there is no money in updating old resources to update tagging when no one is directly paying for it.

As others have said Logos is continually updating many resources. I've always appreciated this aspect of Logos and gives me confidence to continually invest in more resources. Sure not everything is the way I personally want it but overall I think it is excellent.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/641358#Comment_641358

Ha ha ha. That struck me as really funny.

Thanks. I'll be here all week. [;)]

I had thought about switching to cable (now that it is FINALLY available in my neighborhood), but I discovered that there are 5 GB caps on data usage each month. I guess I will stick with my slower-but-unlimited DSL.

From my understanding, things really are backwards here in the states. I have heard from several friends who live outside the US that their internet is MUCH higher speed AND unlimited (no caps).

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/641388#Comment_641388

From my understanding, things really are backwards here in the states. I have heard from several friends who live outside the US that their internet is MUCH higher speed AND unlimited (no caps).

Maybe its just Virginia [;)] I have high speed cable with no cap (Time Warner) Of course, they do require a wheelbarrow load of cash each month [:'(]

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/641388#Comment_641388

Ha ha ha. That struck me as really funny.

Thanks. I'll be here all week.

I had thought about switching to cable (now that it is FINALLY available in my neighborhood), but I discovered that there are 5 GB caps on data usage each month. I guess I will stick with my slower-but-unlimited DSL.

From my understanding, things really are backwards here in the states. I have heard from several friends who live outside the US that their internet is MUCH higher speed AND unlimited (no caps).

30/25 here in North Carolina for 45$ a month. No data cap.

John Graves

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/641340#Comment_641340

Its not the lack of updating I'm speaking of, the other commentary is a NIV Application commentary which was out when the Beale commentary was being worked on. It appears that they just did not do it when they originally produced this work.

It's frustrating to hear, "well they'll get around to updating these books someday" when we paid for a book that was supposed to be a "premium" product to begin with.

This is doubly frustrating when works such as NIC are less than half the cost in Olive Tree, I would gladly pay more for them in Logos but more than double seems a little steep for a product that may or may not be complete when I purchase it and may or may not ever get updated to what I was promised in the beginning.

Anyway, thanks for listening to my rant. I'm done complaining for this year. [:D]

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/641578#Comment_641578

John, in cases where it is very clear that the link should have been made, I pepper Logos with typo reports on the missing links.

Veli Voipio

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/641351#Comment_641351

a search of the forums would show that Bob mentioned how many people they had in the department - it was a reasonable number. The problem is the number of resources, the prioritization guidelines (MJ's favorites last ... not really) which weights in favor of resources broadly owned, etc.

Just wonder, could they use competent voluntary helpers among Logos customers for tagging - especially for some heavy theological original language books with only few users around but those books often have a dense population of references/links.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/641773#Comment_641773

They might be able to - I don't know what it would cost to build a mechanism for volunteers to do it though.

Lee

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/641773#Comment_641773

That's been suggested before, I'm pretty sure of that.

John Graves

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/641760#Comment_641760

John, in cases where it is very clear that the link should have been made, I pepper Logos with typo reports on the missing links.

Thanks MJ I do as well.

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/641340#Comment_641340

I think that this problem is inherent in Logos's pricing structure, there is no money in updating old resources to update tagging when no one is directly paying for it.

Actually, I would think that Logos' pricing structure is precisely what gives them money to continue updating.

Remember that all resources are already fully paid for when shipping. Apart from what they have to pay the publisher, and a tiny percentage to cover marketing, accounting and CS, all sales after that are pure profit. Of course, that profit is what pays developers and so on, but some of it should definitely go to updating the resource itself. Those who bought a resource when it shipped may accept that it doesn't link to newer books, but those who buy it 5 years later won't be happy at all when they find out. To keep sales up, resources need to be updated.

I have heard from several friends who live outside the US that their internet is MUCH higher speed AND unlimited (no caps).

I pay 199 SEK a month for 100 Mbit/s down and 10 up, unlimited. I could pay less and get less, or pay more and get more. On average, for the last few years, 1 USD has been about 6.75 SEK (though currently I think it's more like 7.35). That's cable. Since I don't own a smartphone, I'm not up to date on the prices for mobile, but they're more expensive, and seem to always have caps.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/642483#Comment_642483

I pay 199 SEK a month for 100 Mbit/s down and 10 up, unlimited.

I pay $40 USD for ~3MB/s unlimited with DSL. With the local cable provider (there is only one choice, and until last month, there were none), I am offered 5MB/s for $50 USD with a 5GB cap per month. I could pay $60 USD for 10 MB/s and 10GB cap per month.

The same company offers a 101 MB/s for $199 USD.

I live in a city of nearly 80,000 with a "Metropolitan Statistical Area" of more than 250,000.