New Feature: Propositional Outlines
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Peter Lever said:
The Propositional Outlines feature is a very very useful feature. Please please have this for OT also!
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I have expressed my gratitude towards this new feature before. And I really like it.
I'm wondering whether we could be provided with some background to this tool. Especially concerning the labels on a propositional level, what approach has been followed with this? What school or research has this work been based on?
I'm asking so I can know how to use it better. What I have learned in connection with propositional outlining is that you label the propositions according to their relationships. That is, every proposition stands in a relationship with a previous one and/or the one that follows. Some of that is shown here with the indention of lines and putting the proposition number in parenthesis where the relationship is further apart (meaning not to the immediate preceding proposition). But the labels identify the functions of the propositions, not their relationships. This is still helpful but different. Let’s compare the two. First we have the Logos version:
Now we have the same passage labeled with relationships: (A Semantic Structural Analysis of Galatians by Elinor MacDonald Roger, SIL 1989)
This is obviously more complex. But first, it shows all the relationships well, on more than just one level. Secondly it also shows which proposition is more prominent (the one in capital letters). There are always two propositions that stand in a relationship to one another. It therefore often takes more than one label per proposition since a proposition usually stand in relationship to a previous as well as to a following proposition.
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I assume you checked logosres:lxhmsmntcglssry;art=title;off=4
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
I assume you checked logosres:lxhmsmntcglssry;art=title;off=4
checked how? what does this do?
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It's the Lexham documentation of the feature.
http://www.bible-resources.org/dox/BI262_Prop_Relations is a PDF on the method and has a number of references to research further.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Really liking this feature. Would love to see OT functionality adopted, so count me in with the other affirmatives!
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MJ. Smith said:
It's the Lexham documentation of the feature.
http://www.bible-resources.org/dox/BI262_Prop_Relations is a PDF on the method and has a number of references to research further.
Thanks! The Lexham Propositional Outlines Glossary has no introduction what so ever. It "only" brings glossary entries. This was my first stop to look for information. But I got none. Unlike the Lexham Theological Wordbook, which has a great introduction explaining the methods behind the work.
I'll check out the PDF you mentioned. Thanks for directing me to it!
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MJ, the PDF would be in line with what I have learned and suggested with the excerpt from the SSA. Beekman and Callow are books in my bookshelf etc. So I do understand that approach. But I'd like to learn more about Logos' approach. Where have they learned and taken their approach from? I'm not saying propositional relationships are better than propositional functions. The semantic function of a proposition plays a big role in the communication process. And it sometimes lines up with its semantic relationship to other propositions. All I'm saying is, it is a different approach, one I haven't come across yet and therefore would like to get some insights and documentation on.
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Propositional Outlines = Lexham High Definition NT on steroids.
What even better? I use Lexham HD NT together with Propositional Outlines. [H]
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mike said:
Propositional Outlines = Lexham High Definition NT on steroids.
What even better? I use Lexham HD NT together with Propositional Outlines.
As a matter of fact, the Lexham Discourse Greek New Testament was my introduction to Logos. I studied about discourse analysis, put it into practice by analyzing a minority language that I was studying and then got interested in applying the same communication principles to the Bible. That's when I stumbled across Dr. Runge's website (www.ntdiscourse.org) and learned about his analysis of the Greek text. I purchased it. At first I was a little bit disappointed. I was missing two things. First, participant reference and secondly, a propositional analysis. Both seemed to me to be very important parts of the discourse analysis process. I then purchased Logos 5 and with it came the referent dataset which took care of the participant references. It also came with another extra, the reported speech dataset which labels all quoted speech. Now they have added the propositional outline, the last thing I was missing. And as you pointed out, Mike, the nice thing is that this all works together in the LDGNT as well as the LHDNT. Very well done! Very exciting!!! I also like the Bible Book addition in the Factbook. It brings together outlines and structure of a book, purpose and other introduction topics that relate to discourse analysis.
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Schumitinu said:MJ. Smith said:
It's the Lexham documentation of the feature.
http://www.bible-resources.org/dox/BI262_Prop_Relations is a PDF on the method and has a number of references to research further.
Thanks! The Lexham Propositional Outlines Glossary has no introduction what so ever. It "only" brings glossary entries. This was my first stop to look for information. But I got none. Unlike the Lexham Theological Wordbook, which has a great introduction explaining the methods behind the work.
I'll check out the PDF you mentioned. Thanks for directing me to it!
We don't yet have a methodological introduction to how this dataset was created. Mark Keaton was the primary author, along with Jeremy Thompson. We built on the existing Cascadia syntactic analysis, but Mark (who was one of the creators of the Bible Sense Lexicon, along with Jeremy and David Witthoff) created the labels he felt he needed to capture the relationships in the text. So in some sense it's really his analytical framework, applied across the different NT books, more than a particular school or framework.
Early on we discussed several ways to represent the information, including ways to represent relationships, box-and-arrow diagrams, and other notations. But we settled on this approach so that we could complete the analysis in time to ship with Logos 6, and to strike a balance between depth of analysis and usability for exegesis.
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This is a great tool. Will there ever be something similar for Old Testament text?????
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Thanks I should have scanned more of the thread before I posted.[:)]
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Sean Boisen said:
Mark (who was one of the creators of the Bible Sense Lexicon, along with Jeremy and David Witthoff) created the labels he felt he needed to capture the relationships in the text. So in some sense it's really his analytical framework, applied across the different NT books, more than a particular school or framework.
Early on we discussed several ways to represent the information, including ways to represent relationships, box-and-arrow diagrams, and other notations. But we settled on this approach so that we could complete the analysis in time to ship with Logos 6, and to strike a balance between depth of analysis and usability for exegesis.
Thanks Sean. I appreciate the work that went into it. As you can see from the responses in this thread we are all excited about the tool. And if need be we can take it further ourselves. It's not that Logos needs to feed us everything. There is great personal reward in doing analysis oneself. And the tool will stimulate that for those that have the ability to do so. But as with everything you produce, an introduction is always helpful.
I also like your decision to put it into the format of a visual filter. This way we can apply it to our favorite Bible versions.
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I like this feature. I found it after the upgrade, but it could have been the main reason to update!
Gold package, and original language material and ancient text material, SIL and UBS books, discourse Hebrew OT and Greek NT. PC with Windows 11
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I just want to add my two cents that I also love this feature, and I would love it if it came to the OT and to the mobile apps!
For those of you who have been enjoying this feature so far, please add your votes to the UserVoice suggestion I just created to bring the propositional outlines feature to mobile. This would be really nice for studying on a tablet especially.
And thanks again to Faithlife for adding this amazing feature so far! Keep up the good work!
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