How do you search for Jesus referred to as a man?
I would like to search a bible referring to Jesus as a man. Any suggestions? Thank you
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Rich said:
I would like to search a bible referring to Jesus as a man. Any suggestions?
That's a great question, Rich, and I am looking forward to someone answering it!
But I have a question for you. I am thinking of moving back to a macbook and was wondering what you noticed about the performance of Logos 6 on your iMac compared to your Macbook Air. I'd appreciate your insights.
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Rich said:
I would like to search a bible referring to Jesus as a man. Any suggestions? Thank you
Not sure if this is what you are looking for but "Factbook - Referred to as" could be a good place to start
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Integ my Macbook Air runs Logos 6 perfectly and is very fast. I take it to school. When at home I use my iMac which runs Logos 6 perfectly as well. I enjoy the larger screen the desktop provides. I would recommend either without hesitation. Hope this helps.
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Graham I ran the Factbook but could not figure out how to make a passage list from the referred to as list. I thought there might be another way I was unaware of.
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Integ said:Rich said:
I would like to search a bible referring to Jesus as a man. Any suggestions?
That's a great question, Rich, and I am looking forward to someone answering it!
But I have a question for you. I am thinking of moving back to a macbook and was wondering what you noticed about the performance of Logos 6 on your iMac compared to your Macbook Air. I'd appreciate your insights.
If I might venture a thought uninvited - I too have an iMac and an Air. Both run Logos swiftly and competently. A more economical way of stimulating the desktop experience without the expense of the second computer is to invest in a mid range monitor and use this with the Air to provide a second screen.
I worked this way for quite a few years and it really does make a lot of difference when you are at the desk and able to work with a variety of programs open at the same time.
tootle pip
Mike
Now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs. Latest Logos, MacOS, iOS and iPadOS
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Rich said:
how to make a passage list from the referred to as list.
Try right-clicking the heading "man" in the referred to as list.
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Rich said:
Graham I ran the Factbook but could not figure out how to make a passage list from the referred to as list. I thought there might be another way I was unaware of.
In 6.0a beta, there's a Save As Passage List option at the end of the "Referred to as" section.
In 6.0, you can right-click on the section heading to save as a passage list. Alternatively, you can right-click on the sub-heading (e.g. 'Man'), and save just those verses as a passage list.
PS - You may want to include other titles that highlight Jesus' humanity, such as 'Jesus of Nazareth'.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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I thought I had figured out a way to do it using some of Logos' new search features, but the list is incomplete. Here's what mine looks like, and I'd appreciate any feedback on why this doesn't fully work (I'm guessing phrase boundaries). It gets a lot that show in Graham's list, but not everything. For instance, it's not picking up John 1:30, which it should. Below I show a <Person Jesus> search and a <Sense = man> search and both hit John 1:30, but this ANDEQUALS operator is not picking it up.
<Person Jesus> search in John
<Sense = man> search in John
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William Gabriel said:
but this ANDEQUALS operator is not picking it up.
I don't know why that doesn't work - but not 100% sure that the ANDEQUALS operator can be used in this way. Hopefully someone can confirm
If you try "(<Sense = man>) WITHIN <Person Jesus>" you will find that this picks up the John 1:30 verse fine.
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I think AND should work instead of ANDEQUALS as well as WITHIN. The ANDEQUALS operator is different from the AND operator because the match has to be in precisely the exact same location.
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Bob Soule said:
I think AND should work instead of ANDEQUALS as well as WITHIN The ANDEQUALS operator is different from the AND operator because the match has to be in precisely the exact same location.
ANDEQUALS is actually what you want in this case instead of AND. If you use AND, then you'll get verses that have a reference to Jesus and a reference to a "man", even if they're not both referring to Jesus. For instance, the AND search returns Matt 7:26 where Jesus speaks of a foolish man.
The OP wanted to know when Jesus was being referred to as a man.
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Graham Criddle said:
If you try "(<Sense = man>) WITHIN <Person Jesus>" you will find that this picks up the John 1:30 verse fine.
That does pick up some more, thanks. It looks like both of ours miss Matt 26:72 too. I don't think that "man" is getting picked up by the Sense search (missing tagging?).
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Graham Criddle said:William Gabriel said:
but this ANDEQUALS operator is not picking it up.
I don't know why that doesn't work - but not 100% sure that the ANDEQUALS operator can be used in this way. Hopefully someone can confirm
ANDEQUALS means in exactly the same position as. In the John 1:30 example, the person tagging extends to the ὃς (who), whereas the sense tagging obviously doesn't.
<Sense = man> WITHIN <Person Jesus> is not ideal, either. It doesn't work if the sense is over a larger range than the person. That doesn't matter in this case, but it might for some other searches. It does matter in this example if the search terms were the other way around.
<Sense = man> WITHIN 0 WORDS <Person Jesus>, on the other hand, just needs the sense and person to overlap somehow. They don't have to start/end in exactly the same place, and it doesn't matter if one is 'longer' than the other. It also has the advantage that the order doesn't matter.
As for Matt 26:72 - 'man' is tagged with the person sense, not the man sense. That's probably an error.
So it looks like this is the best search:
(<Sense = man>, <Sense = person>) WITHIN 0 WORDS <Person Jesus>
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Thanks Mark
Very helpful
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Mark Barnes said:
ANDEQUALS means in exactly the same position as. In the John 1:30 example, the person tagging extends to the ὃς (who), whereas the sense tagging obviously doesn't.
I had suspected that, but I couldn't tell if the who was tagged with man or independently (<-- which would have made more sense to me). When I pull up John 1:30 from the search, it highlights "a man" and "who" with different colors. How are you able to tell that who gets extended from man?
Mark Barnes said:So it looks like this is the best search:
(<Sense = man>, <Sense = person>) WITHIN 0 WORDS <Person Jesus>
This certainly picks up all of the man references that Graham pointed out from Factbook, but it also picks up some more. That may or may not be to your advantage, depending on what you want. For instance, I think it's picking up some "Son of Man" references that were separate in Factbook (but probably just as important for referring to Jesus as a man - e.g. Matt 11:19). But it also picked up Matt 22:16, which must be equating Teacher with <Sense = person> (or something similar). It's probably not too difficult to filter those out, but it could be an issue depending on the exact search you're trying to do (I find too much info can be just as much a problem as to little info).
Thank you, though, for that query, I feel like this is a great workout for growing in L6 search.
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William Gabriel said:
I had suspected that, but I couldn't tell if the who was tagged with man or independently (<-- which would have made more sense to me). When I pull up John 1:30 from the search, it highlights "a man" and "who" with different colors. How are you able to tell that who gets extended from man?
I just ran the two searches separately. Or you can right-click on individual words to see the person tagging and the reverse interlinear or info panel for the sense tagging.
William Gabriel said:For instance, I think it's picking up some "Son of Man" references that were separate in Factbook (but probably just as important for referring to Jesus as a man - e.g. Matt 11:19).
That's correct.
William Gabriel said:But it also picked up Matt 22:16, which must be equating Teacher with <Sense = person> (or something similar).
This only occurs in a few English versions (ESV and NASB95). It's caused by the tagging of the phrase "swayed by appearances" (literally "you do not look at men's faces"). Because the phrase isn't translated literally, the "you" (<Person = Jesus>) ends up overlapping the "men's faces" (<Sense = Person>}in the ESV and NASB reverse interlinears. That's why you shouldn't use interlinears if you want 100% accurate results.
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Thanks everyone.
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Mark Barnes said:
ANDEQUALS means in exactly the same position as. In the John 1:30 example, the person tagging extends to the ὃς (who), whereas the sense tagging obviously doesn't.
I just read this thread out of interest in the differences between using ANDEQUALS and WITHIN 0 WORDS. There is something I don't understand though: "Man" in John 1:30 is tagged both as Person = Jesus and Sense = man. While I understand why it would not be applicable to the pronoun earlier in the verse, I don't know why ANDEQUALS would not have worked for the word "man" in the verse.
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Francis said:Mark Barnes said:
ANDEQUALS means in exactly the same position as. In the John 1:30 example, the person tagging extends to the ὃς (who), whereas the sense tagging obviously doesn't.
I just read this thread out of interest in the differences between using ANDEQUALS and WITHIN 0 WORDS. There is something I don't understand though: "Man" in John 1:30 is tagged both as Person = Jesus and Sense = man. While I understand why it would not be applicable to the pronoun earlier in the verse, I don't know why ANDEQUALS would not have worked for the word "man" in the verse.
It would be interesting to know exactly what's going on there. When I right click "man" I see the tagging "man:noun" and "Jesus:Person", and when I do the same for "who" I see the tagging "Jesus:Person".
The other thing I find peculiar is that the wiki claims that ANDEQUALS is equivalent to WITHIN 0 WORDS (See the bottom of Proximity Operators). [https://wiki.logos.com/Detailed_Search_Help#Proximity_Operators] Does that need to be changed?
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William Gabriel said:
the wiki claims that ANDEQUALS is equivalent to WITHIN 0 WORDS
This much, as I understand it, is incorrect: WITHIN 0 WORDS searches for two things in what it searches (for instance, verses). Both terms need to be present but even though they are represented by the same word, you are still in effect searching for two entities. Example: if you search a Greek word, like theos WITHIN 0 WORDS of a specific translation, like God, you will find the places where theos is translated God, but really you were searching for both entities. it will be two hits, one for theos, one for God. Within 0 words of each other means they will be at the same place but we easily see what happens if we use 1 instead of 0.
ANDEQUALS, on the other hand, looks for one entity that meets two criteria. You are not looking for theos nor are you looking for God; what you are looking for is a single entity which in Greek is represented by theos and in English by God (I use entity here, as term, from a written text not real world standpoint).
One of the practical consequences of this, is that you will get double the number of hits with WITHIN 0 WORDS than with ANDEQUALS.
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William Gabriel said:
It would be interesting to know exactly what's going on there. When I right click "man" I see the tagging "man:noun" and "Jesus:Person", and when I do the same for "who" I see the tagging "Jesus:Person".
This is the key point.
The searches below show what happens with this verse when searching for each term separately
The sense "man" spans "A man" whereas the person "Jesus" spans "A man who". This is why the ANDEQUALS search doesn't work (as per Mark's explanation earlier)
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Graham Criddle said:
The sense "man" spans "A man" whereas the person "Jesus" spans "A man who". This is why the ANDEQUALS search doesn't work (as per Mark's explanation earlier)
I am not sure what to make of this notion of "spanning". When I right-click on just "man", I get both Person: Jesus and Sense: man in the context-menu.
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Francis said:
I just read this thread out of interest in the differences between using ANDEQUALS and WITHIN 0 WORDS. There is something I don't understand though: "Man" in John 1:30 is tagged both as Person = Jesus and Sense = man. While I understand why it would not be applicable to the pronoun earlier in the verse, I don't know why ANDEQUALS would not have worked for the word "man" in the verse.
The tagging is working something like this:
<sense = 'man'>A man</sense> who comes after me
<person = 'Jesus'>A man who</person> comes after meIt doesn't work like this:
<sense = 'man'>A man</sense> who comes after me
<person = 'Jesus'>A man</person> <person = 'Jesus'>who</person> comes after meSo, when you search for <sense = 'man'>, Logos returns "A man". When you search for <person = 'Jesus'>, Logos returns "A man who".
As I said before, ANDEQUALS means "in exactly the same place as", but "A man" and "A man who" are not in exactly the same place (they start in the same place, but they finish in a different place). Their positions in the resource are not equal, so ANDEQUALS will not return them.
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