After waiting patiently after the Master Journal Bundle 2.1+ came out - not a lot has happened.
Where was the frequent release programme we were expecting.
Shalom
As a matter of fact, a friend of mine gave a presentation this past Sabbath and wanted to use a couple of pics from a past issue of BAR and I was able to send them to him, so it has already been useful. Hope the newer issues since 2005 eventually end up in Logos.
I'm just curious... Do you have an ETA on these? 1 month, 3 months, etc? Can you give an estimate as to when the product will be ready for roll out? The team tells me end of next week seems doable, but I'd add another week or two to your expectations so we can exceed them.
I'm just curious... Do you have an ETA on these? 1 month, 3 months, etc?
Can you give an estimate as to when the product will be ready for roll out?
The team tells me end of next week seems doable, but I'd add another week or two to your expectations so we can exceed them.
Do we have any updates on the Galaxie Journal bundle getting into Logos? Also curious how the next round of journal upgrades is coming. Thank you
I'm just curious... Do you have an ETA on these? 1 month, 3 months, etc? Can you give an estimate as to when the product will be ready for roll out? The team tells me end of next week seems doable, but I'd add another week or two to your expectations so we can exceed them. Do we have any updates on the Galaxie Journal bundle getting into Logos? Also curious how the next round of journal upgrades is coming. Thank you
Any updates?
I'm just curious... Do you have an ETA on these? 1 month, 3 months, etc? Can you give an estimate as to when the product will be ready for roll out? The team tells me end of next week seems doable, but I'd add another week or two to your expectations so we can exceed them. Do we have any updates on the Galaxie Journal bundle getting into Logos? Also curious how the next round of journal upgrades is coming. Thank you Any updates?
Any updates on the Galaxie Theological Journal Library or the 4.1 Journal Upgrades?
My best guess is this:
Unlike the "rare" event that occurred with the previous update where they simply graciously just pushed it through, FL has left it in its "normal" pre-pub system. Hence, due to a lack of people's enthusiasm despite much posting here previously in this thread the 2 updates are currently "stuck" in pre-pub until enough people back them. Where's all the activity on this subject now that FL has responded in kind?
https://www.logos.com/product/154052/master-journal-bundle-41
https://www.logos.com/product/156048/galaxies-theological-journal-library-vols-1-20
Neither one is looking hopeful at the moment and despite the much heralded activity that used to drive this thread, FL probably has simply logically moved on to work on things folks actually back because people are not responding where they should by getting behind these projects that many were supposed to be interested in according to these links and the responses.Possibly these are not what people were hoping for?Anyone else have any better feedback or ideas? This thread has virtually gone silence except for the "Any updates?" postings. Is there a better way forward?
To me, the short answer is:
FL has acted and is waiting for customers to back it. Once they do, it will be worked on. They offered a solution. Few took interest.
Maybe the point of this thread now would be to determine why? Is there a reason for a lack of support? If so, what can FL do better now that they have responded?
It was my understanding (though I could be wrong) that the prepub meter was just for show when it came to journals. It wasn't so much an interest thing as it was a design. I hope that is correct as it seemed like to me that the Galaxie thing was a for sure to come back regardless of interest, not to mention most of it is already in their systems
Hence, due to a lack of people's enthusiasm despite much posting here previously in this thread the 2 updates are currently "stuck" in pre-pub until enough people back them. Where's all the activity on this subject now that FL has responded in kind?
It's possible, at least for the master bundle, that the part-set orders (academic, etc.) mean there's more activity than it appears.
It's equally possible that with Logos 8 hopefully not a million miles away, the Faithlife team is having to focus on other things at the moment.
Another possibility is that people have just become jaded with the whole PrePub process. I know that to some extent that is true for me. I've had so many requests take forever or never even start the process. While I'm pretty sure that I've got my orders in on the journal bundles, I've gotten so used to buying dead tree items over the last year or so that I'm hardly paying any attention to what Logos is doing with PrePubs. Two years ago, I never would have believed I would say such a thing. Almost all of the 50+ books I've read in the last 1-2 years have been print on page.
Plus, I've asked for Vetus Testamentum, Novum Testamentum, Hebrew Union College Annual, Interpretation, Harvard Theological Review, and a number of others for so long that I feel like I'm waiting for Godot. And it doesn't help much that about 2/3 to 3/4 of the journals in the Master Bundle and Galaxie bundle are things I almost NEVER encounter in the bibliographies of the books I read, either in or out of Logos.
I would like to see Phil or someone on FL update us on this as many do have Galaxie from its previous existence. I assumed that they took that into consideration though when they set the required number for it to go into production and set the bar lower for other pre-pubs. I joined Logos late and do not have the luxuries of being "grandfathered" in.
I hope we can get more interaction started in this thread to create enough interest from FL for more clear feedback. Thanks!
Another possibility is that people have just become jaded with the whole PrePub process. I know that to some extent that is true for me. I've had so many requests take forever or never even start the process. While I'm pretty sure that I've got my orders in on the journal bundles, I've gotten so used to buying dead tree items over the last year or so that I'm hardly paying any attention to what Logos is doing with PrePubs. Two years ago, I never would have believed I would say such a thing. Almost all of the 50+ books I've read in the last 1-2 years have been print on page. Plus, I've asked for Vetus Testamentum, Novum Testamentum, Hebrew Union College Annual, Interpretation, Harvard Theological Review, and a number of others for so long that I feel like I'm waiting for Godot. And it doesn't help much that about 2/3 to 3/4 of the journals in the Master Bundle and Galaxie bundle are things I almost NEVER encounter in the bibliographies of the books I read, either in or out of Logos.
You may be right in some sense. I have had some lack of interest myself and cancelled items because others did the same on stuff I'm still waiting on. Is there a better way for them to propose new works so they do not back products people will not buy? We want FL to invest wisely and not end up on the chopping block like BW's. The pre-pub system is designed for us to let them know what is important by enough interest to make it worth FL's investment to be good stewards and not sink the ship by selling products that people will buy and not leave anyone out to dry!Apparently the publishing world is a hard one to master with so many protocols it is not easy for FL to nail down agreements with so many publishers who are also trying to adapt to current trends in the industry and not see FL as a competitor. It's like anything I suppose. So many artisans on so many venues with various representations, it is hard to get them all into one place (e.g. the media and the many avenues of garnering paid content whether music or t.v./film, etc.) Where does it all end?
Galaxie releases their annual updates every October/November. We release our updates as we get them (aiming for quarterly, ideally). So our TJL upgrade bundle will usually be ahead of the Galaxie TJL where there's overlap. That's out of our control, unless you prefer we no longer ship journals more frequently and hold them back until the end of the year, which doesn't seem ideal to me. There's really nothing to be confused about. Just pre-order everything you're interested in and let dynamic pricing for Pre-Pubs take care of the rest. There's nothing to lose. What else isn't clear?
Galaxie releases their annual updates every October/November. We release our updates as we get them (aiming for quarterly, ideally). So our TJL upgrade bundle will usually be ahead of the Galaxie TJL where there's overlap. That's out of our control, unless you prefer we no longer ship journals more frequently and hold them back until the end of the year, which doesn't seem ideal to me.
There's really nothing to be confused about. Just pre-order everything you're interested in and let dynamic pricing for Pre-Pubs take care of the rest. There's nothing to lose.
What else isn't clear?
From this message dated June 11, 2018, I suppose we may hear something by Christmas...
Does anyone know why the JQR only goes to 1923?
It was in the public domain up to that point and didn't require licensing from a rightsholder.
Both are waiting for sufficient funding to move into production.
Any updates on the Galaxie Theological Journal Library or the 4.1 Journal Upgrades? Both are waiting for sufficient funding to move into production.
My biggest interest is in JETS... is there anyway to reactivate that in Logos so it can be purchased again?
Is anyone else surprised at how slow the funding is going for both of these?
I'm disappointed these are being held up. The point of journals is to have the latest research. If we always have to wait for funding we will be back where we were before with little to no journal updates.
I am. That is why I posted back in June saying how surprised I was. There had been such much activity and posting about "new journals" and then when finally the packages are made available,it has been slow going. Very disappointed.
First, is the Galaxie bundle part of the Master Bundle or separate?
I really, really, really, really, really want FL to be more active and effective at making more scholarly journals available in Logos. The majority of the journals in these bundles are denominational and ministerial in focus. With the exception of JBL, JHS, JETS, and BibSac, I very rarely find any of these being cited in my Logos library.
I really, really, really, really, really want FL to be more active and effective at making more scholarly journals available in Logos. The majority of the journals in these bundles are denominational and ministerial in focus.
I agree!
There is significant overlap, but not 100% duplication. If you preorder both, the second to go into production will be significantly discounted over the current prices you are quoted once it hits production.
Mr Gons
Since JETS used to already be in Logos is it possible to reactivate it for purchase while we wait for the new Galaxie bundle to get funded... if it gets funded?
So what actually is next? Is this process totally left to endless purgatory in pre-pub? Or will there ever be Journal Bundles 5.x when no one is bothered about 4.1? Are we then at a total stalemate for now or will something give way?
Why the sudden lack of interest?
Gosh I certainly hope not. I was excited that journals were coming back and I'd have a chance to get galaxie
I'm breathless over the anemic response to Galaxie. Is this a put up or shut up type deal? https://www.logos.com/product/156048/galaxies-theological-journal-library-vols-1-20 This is downright end of October scary!
I wish they would just reactivate JETS for purchase
I want to make it clear that you're right to point out that we made a commitment to provide journal updates regularly and that we've failed to do that. I believe that we can keep that commitment going forward and I'm trying to do all I can to ensure that we do. However, it's going to take a bit of time to catch up. As soon as I have more news to share, I'll post it here. Thanks for your patience.
This message is from February 22, 2017
dropped without a word The last update from FL was March 2. I happen to agree with all that everyone has written. It is proper for FL to respond to let us know what is going on. We were told there would be updates to the journals. The silence is communicating a lot. We are still working on this project. I'm sorry it keeps getting pushed back. However, we now have one person who will own the project going forward, which means it won't have to fight for the attention of multiple stakeholders.
dropped without a word The last update from FL was March 2. I happen to agree with all that everyone has written. It is proper for FL to respond to let us know what is going on. We were told there would be updates to the journals. The silence is communicating a lot.
dropped without a word
The last update from FL was March 2. I happen to agree with all that everyone has written. It is proper for FL to respond to let us know what is going on. We were told there would be updates to the journals. The silence is communicating a lot.
We are still working on this project. I'm sorry it keeps getting pushed back. However, we now have one person who will own the project going forward, which means it won't have to fight for the attention of multiple stakeholders.
This message is from August 15, 2017
I'm sorry for the delay in releasing journal updates and the lack of regular communication. Our plans for quarterly updates stalled out when new collections did get funded quickly enough.
September 25, 2017
We'll provide concrete details as soon as we have them. We've responded to acknowledge that we've seen the discussion and let you know we're working on it. We're trying to avoid sharing details that aren't yet final.
September 27, 2017.
I would suggest that it is wise to share something even when there are no details to share. Just getting on and acknowledging that the project is not dead and that a team is still working on it, is helpful. And of course if a team is still working on it, then there must be something to report, even if it is little
Any update as to when the next bundle of new journals available? We're finalizing the details and hope to have them up on Pre-Pub in the next couple of weeks.
Any update as to when the next bundle of new journals available?
We're finalizing the details and hope to have them up on Pre-Pub in the next couple of weeks.
April 17, 2018
Up for pre-order: https://www.logos.com/product/156048/theological-journal-library-vols-1-20.
June 8, 2018
Finally, something positive!
Galaxie releases their annual updates every October/November. We release our updates as we get them (aiming for quarterly, ideally). So our TJL upgrade bundle will usually be ahead of the Galaxie TJL where there's overlap. That's out of our control, unless you prefer we no longer ship journals more frequently and hold them back until the end of the year, which doesn't seem ideal to me. There's really nothing to be confused about. Just pre-order everything you're interested in and let dynamic pricing for Pre-Pubs take care of the rest. There's nothing to lose. What else isn't clear? From this message dated June 11, 2018, I suppose we may hear something by Christmas...
Hey Mark,
We posted the Master Journal Bundle 4.1 and a few other journals bundles earlier in the year. We're waiting for these to get sufficient funding to put them into production.
October 1, 2018
So now my questions: There are several journal packages now. Are ALL those various packages waiting for sufficient funding to move into production? or just a few such as GTJ?
It appears to the average customer that the journal project died a long time ago, that there is no real desire on the part of Faithlife to revive it. That is okay if it is true. And of course it is wonderful news if it is not true. But what is not okay is being strung along with no real updates on what is going on.
Sometimes there is nothing really to report. But getting on the forum post and reporting that there is nothing to report is actually helpful to customers to know that the project has not been abandoned. This thread did mention that there was a TEAM working on this project. Is there still a team working on this project as of October 22, 2018? What has happened since the last report that a team was working on this?
Please provide an update, even if the update is not encouraging. If some kind of update came on quarterly basis...an update on the status of the journal project, it can be helpful.
Very possibly there is lack of funding because many have already abandoned hope in the project. A little bit of news can reverse that if it is true.
Thanks for posting something. I did not see this before my last post with my questions. I would appreciate some responses to those questions (at least the relevant ones)
Hi Ben Amundgaard (Faithlife)
Thanks for your response
However I think this exhibits a rather unhelpful approach to the publication of Logos Journals.
You need to get a 'growing' number of people on board with getting their journals IN Logos. Surely that means a regular, reliable and fairly frequent supply. Much like a subscription - but maybe not using the Logos meaning of the term.
So why are we told we must wait until there is 'funding' - this may make financial sense - but surely not sound commercial and promotional sense. These would be an investment in the health of the idea of Journals within Logos. These constant delays are just putting more and more people off and they are going elsewhere - or even resorting to the paper alternative.
I challenge Faithlife to the think more radically.
If I am wrong please provide convincing rationale for your actions that will make sense to your 'buying public'.
I agree with Kevin... lets have: you buy the back catalogue in a bundle and at $5 a month subscription it always stays up to date with new journals and you own them! That actually approximates close to the cost offered anyway. Logos gains reliable revenue and we gain reliable journals! WIN-WIN Just like a magazine subscription in paper would be.
Totally agree with you Kevin, Logos needs to either move these journals into production or to stop toying with there customers that they are in the journal business.
Hi Mark Thanks for your response However I think this exhibits a rather unhelpful approach to the publication of Logos Journals. You need to get a 'growing' number of people on board with getting their journals IN Logos. Surely that means a regular, reliable and fairly frequent supply. Much like a subscription - but maybe not using the Logos meaning of the term. So why are we told we must wait until there is 'funding' - this may make financial sense - but surely not sound commercial and promotional sense. These would be an investment in the health of the idea of Journals within Logos. These constant delays are just putting more and more people off and they are going elsewhere - or even resorting to the paper alternative. I challenge Faithlife to the think more radically. If I am wrong please provide convincing rationale for your actions that will make sense to your 'buying public'. Shalom
Hi Mark
I'm going to say it again...only about 5% of the Journals that FL has provided thus far ever show up in my Logos links (or my hard copy bibliographies, for that matter). There are about 15-25 journals that turn up regularly in my bibliographies and links that have literally thousands of references in Logos, but they remain dead links. WHY?????????
I think I've already listed some of them in this thread: VT, NT, HTR, CBQ, HUCA, just to reference a few...these are extremely common journals with TONS of relevant information that is locked out of the Logos user experience. THAT NEEDS TO CHANGE. Until these are part of the Logos stable, FL is just playing games.
I'm going to say it again...only about 5% of the Journals that FL has provided thus far ever show up in my Logos links (or my hard copy bibliographies, for that matter). There are about 15-25 journals that turn up regularly in my bibliographies and links that have literally thousands of references in Logos, but they remain dead links. WHY????????? I think I've already listed some of them in this thread: VT, NT, HTR, CBQ, HUCA, just to reference a few...these are extremely common journals with TONS of relevant information that is locked out of the Logos user experience. THAT NEEDS TO CHANGE. Until these are part of the Logos stable, FL is just playing games.
I agree. In a world class product like Logos I would expect to be able to access the best journals. I don't mind paying for them but its a real shame that they are not available.
This, and to reiterate:
People bought the journal collections because they were told that they would be updated (no one said that we would have to wait for funding each time).
The fact that this promise has been broken will only drive people away, making it unlikely that journals will get funded, creating a vicious cycle and leaving those who invested in journals stuck.
In order to get people excited about journals in Logos, you guys are going to have to show some consistency and investment. Only then will people be willing to purchase them again.
Hi Mark Thanks for your response However I think this exhibits a rather unhelpful approach to the publication of Logos Journals. You need to get a 'growing' number of people on board
You need to get a 'growing' number of people on board
Hi Kevin
Did you mean me or Ben? I am a customer just like you. I am not the one who needs to get a growing number of people on board. There are many interested in journals. If that number has diminished, it is due to lack of communication on the part of Faithlife that may have caused people to give up and purchase their journals elsewhere.
I am asking questions. I am not the one that needs to respond.
Is there still a team working on the project? Or is the project dead?
Do ALL the journal offerings need more funding?
Why the pattern of silence on this project? Why not give quarterly or regular updates?
Kevin, I am going to assume that you meant Ben and not me.
Oops I meant Ben from Faithlife - sorry Mark
I should pay closer attention - original post now corrected
The entire point of journals is to get the latest research on a certain topic... If you have to wait a year for "sufficient funding" to come you'll always be behind the curve.
I must say that I don't understand this thought process and I must have misread/misunderstood something somewhere. I took it as Logos would be pushing through journals on a regular basis no matter what. I would think that a majority of people aren't interested in journals but if you want your software to be relevant to universities and professors they need the latest research. Could they get it elsewhere? Most definitely but to show the worth of your system I would think you want it in Logos. I must say this turn of developments disappoints me.
I've never really been a fan of the whole prepub system. Yes it is nice to get a discount but when books are held hostage it seems that quite a few end up in limbo or cancelled. Without mentioning other softwares, it seems they are able to get resources in without the need for this process which I would think would make people buy resources from there instead. When Logos finally gets the resource, people already own it elsewhere and then the loyal ones who waited get stuck because no one wants to own it twice. I understand Logos wants to be conservative with their money but I do think they need to start biting the bullet and taking some chances on resources and putting them into production without this process. It seems some resources do skip this process but how that decision is made, I'm not privy to. I say this because I love Logos and I hate to watch the competition continue to gather other resources while Logos just sits there and watches the prepub timer with unfinished commentary collections, journals, and other resources. It is frustrating to say the least.
I hope this changes someday... and if I'm in the minority I'll go sit in the corner and be quiet.
This, and to reiterate: People bought the journal collections because they were told that they would be updated (no one said that we would have to wait for funding each time). The fact that this promise has been broken will only drive people away, making it unlikely that journals will get funded, creating a vicious cycle and leaving those who invested in journals stuck. In order to get people excited about journals in Logos, you guys are going to have to show some consistency and investment. Only then will people be willing to purchase them again.
Don't know about a promise, but I thought it was a regular update. Not a regular funding question. Though my impression is a lot of projects are on the shelf (eg CP, etc). I assume a customer issue.
But the journal pricing strategy insures failure .. each update makes the product less desirable for new participants.
Hi Denise
I believe I understand what you are saying here, as you haven't explained. But it might be worth spelling it out for those who aren't following your thinking and to ensure others like myself who 'think' they know what you mean are actually correct.
My guess is that you are referring to the cumulative aspects of the various 2.0, 2.1, 3.1 and 4.1 journal collections.
If it takes this long to get enough orders, then the pre-pubs should be launched 9-12 months earlier to ensure there isn’t an unnecessary delay.
But the journal pricing strategy insures failure .. each update makes the product less desirable for new participants. Hi Denise I believe I understand what you are saying here, as you haven't explained. But it might be worth spelling it out for those who aren't following your thinking and to ensure other like myself who 'think' they know what you mean are actually correct. My guess is that you are referring to the cumulative aspects of the various 2.0, 2.1, 3.1 and 4.1 journal collections. Shalom
I believe I understand what you are saying here, as you haven't explained. But it might be worth spelling it out for those who aren't following your thinking and to ensure other like myself who 'think' they know what you mean are actually correct.
Your guess was correct ... affordability. How many folks are up for these prepub prices (below)? Personally, I'd break it down by older vs recent.
