Collector's has too many CLASSIC COMMENTARIES??
I feel that the Collector's Edition has way too many Classic Commentaries, too many fluffs still. (for me at least)
What do you guys think?
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Mike, I have most of the Classic Commentaries and it is true that you will probably not use a lot of them although you never know (even if you had enough time in your life) but there are some really good resources mixed within them. Of course each of us probably have a different definition of what is good.
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To be honest I am pleased it is included in the Collector's Library. After all it is a Collector's Edition as the name suggest. Some folks will be happy other's will not be.
I look at the savings If purchased individually but other's I appreciate may take a different view.
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mike said:
I feel that the Collector's Edition has way too many Classic Commentaries, too many fluffs still. (for me at least)
What do you guys think?
You're getting roughly a 90% reduction on Collectors. The Classic Commentaries retail for about $2 per volume (e.g. the 23-volume Ephesians is $46). So in a base package, each volume is only adding about 20c to your price, which I'm sure is worth it.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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If you want a massive collection... not everything will be a gem.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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If you are a true collector then you will iappreciate classics.
mike said:I feel that the Collector's Edition has way too many Classic Commentaries, too many fluffs still. (for me at least)
What do you guys think?
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WOW ..
I counted after purchasing Collector + Baptist Portfolio + P&C Diamond = 1801 resources....
And 750+ of those resources are CLASSIC COMMENTARIES. my goooodness..... (And I thought I already have too many Classic Comms)
I don't know what to say... So sad...
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mike said:
And 750+ of those resources are CLASSIC COMMENTARIES. my goooodness..... (And I thought I already have too many Classic Comms)
I don't know what to say... So sad...
So you would prefer to have only ended up with 1051 new resources?
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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SineNomine said:
So you would prefer to have only ended up with 1051 new resources?
Well yes, if they adjust the price without me having to pay those unwanted Classic Commentaries.
It's literally 58% of my total new resources purchased today.... 58 percent of just Old Classic Commentaries.
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mike said:
Well yes, if they adjust the price without me having to pay those unwanted Classic Commentaries.
It's literally 58% of my total new resources purchased today.... 58 percent of just Old Classic Commentaries.
If you're earlier count was correct, it's 42%, not 58%. But I'll wager it's not 42% of the value. As I said earlier, those 750 volumes of classic commentaries will have added only about $150 to your base package cost, which I'd guess was only 10-15% of the cost of your upgrade.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Correct Mark, 42% of purchased resources today are Classic Commentaries.
But I don't think each volume of each classic commentary is priced at 20cents. Your statement is true but only half the truth. The way base package works is that Logos wants to us to assume (and we do likewise) that each resources is priced equally with the others. As in, if I paid $1000 and I get 1000 resources, that means I paid $1 per resource. It doesn't matter if that was the Mobile Ed or the Classic Commentary. Because the image that Logos is throwing to us is that, through buying base package, we can buy the resources as cheap as $2-3/resource. That is the cheapest way to buy a resource, if you don't mind waiting for every 2 years.
What I can't imagine is the amount of Classic Commentaries (or fluffs) in Collectors... imposing the highest burden to the most loyal customers. I don't mind if the Silver or Starter have the the most Classic Commentaries, because they paid the least. But to impose "unwanted" resources to pump up the resource numbers so they can inflate the price, is sad.
Just my feelings.
ps: I finally bought the Ultimate package to support, but that doesn't mean I'm completely happy.
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I'm not fortunate enough to be able to afford that edition. I really can't afford Bronze, but, keep upgrading. To be honest, I have never been thrilled with Logos. I knew when I got L3, and loaded it, it was not going to be as easy to use as all my previous Bible software. Sadly, that has discouraged me, and I have not made much use of it in the 9 or 10 years I have had this thing. And the money I have poured into this is ridiculous. And what's worse, the more I pour into the more i HOPE i'll start using it,
Well, this just may be the version I have been waiting for, The update was included with the subscription rate (no, not free, but, no additional cost) so that was awesome. Then the $57 (with tax) to get the new resources in Bronze was awesome. But, the real excitement comes from the speed at which things are found. Esp. when I want a quick trip to the passage I was looking for. For the past 9-10 years it has been faster to google the passage I want. Translation: what a waste of a fortune spent on worthless software.
With the search engine much speedier (the blink of an eye) I can FINALLY feel excited that I can actually use my Bible.
Now, hopefully this will mean I can make use of many of the resources. Of course, not liking to read, I could see me using this in Heaven, and still not using all the resources when eternity ended (ie, with over 2000 resources, I'll NEVER use a small percentage of them). So, yes, I agree, there are way too many (in general) resources.
But, now that I may actually be able to use the software, as it was intended, I am thinking I might be able to scan many of the resources now, get several perspectives. And that is what this was built for to start with. So, yeah, it is way too much, but, well worth just having it.
The Collector's Edition would add 6100+ resources to my library. So, in that vein, yes, way too many. But, that's their bread and butter, and steak and lobster, and and and. The purpose for so many Classics, is because it's pretty much royalty free, meaning, it's a whole lot cheaper to toss into a huge bundle. It's to imagine a bundle costing more than this, but, if they used more modern scholarly books it would be much higher in price. Of course, even if free, there is more to cost than price of material. There is labor to "digitize", and "computerize" and update/upgrade them. Labor intense costs a fortune. While volunteers would be awesome, it's not realistic. So, they go the most cost effective way possible. This is why so many Classics vs. modern items (which I assume is what your real question was).
Hope that answered that one. But to be clear, yeah, I agree, way too much anything in that one. For me anyway.mike said:I feel that the Collector's Edition has way too many Classic Commentaries, too many fluffs still. (for me at least)
What do you guys think?
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mike said:
The way base package works is that Logos wants to us to assume (and we do likewise) that each resources is priced equally with the others. As in, if I paid $1000 and I get 1000 resources, that means I paid $1 per resource. It doesn't matter if that was the Mobile Ed or the Classic Commentary. Because the image that Logos is throwing to us is that, through buying base package, we can buy the resources as cheap as $2-3/resource.
That may be how you view it, but it's not how dynamic pricing works. Dynamic pricing works by calculating the cost of the components, not just counting them. Classic commentaries only retail at $2/volume, and therefore they're priced at approximate 20c in a base package. Likewise, a commentary set that retails at $30/volume will add approximately $3/volume to a base package.
mike said:What I can't imagine is the amount of Classic Commentaries (or fluffs) in Collectors... imposing the highest burden to the most loyal customers. I don't mind if the Silver or Starter have the the most Classic Commentaries, because they paid the least. But to impose "unwanted" resources to pump up the resource numbers so they can inflate the price, is sad.
There's another, much more generous, way of looking at this. Public domain resources used to be very overpriced in Logos (unless you bought on CP), and one of the consequences of this is that base packages could have a few hundred public domain texts added, and then say that this was worth $2,000. But fairly recently FL slashed the cost of many PD resources, which means they've got to add in hundreds more PD texts than they would have previously to get to the same retail amount. That may be part of the explanation as to why you think you're seeing more than previously. Hypothetically, in the past you might have had 200 recent works and 100 PD works. Now you've got 200 recent works and 150 PD works. Your percentage has gone up quite a lot - but you've not missed out at all.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Some of us like classic works, one reason why the base packages are so cheap is that they contain a broad mixture of stuff, some of which I have no interest in but you might.
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Nicely put, Mike.
That's one thing that makes making Logos (and other products, really) difficult. Some people are extremely content with whatever. Then there are more picky types, like myself. Then there are the extremist types, who it seems are never ever happy (I may be classified here, too). What interests you wont interest someone else, and to try to assemble a library that will work and keep things floating, is a tough job.Mike Pettit said:Some of us like classic works, one reason why the base packages are so cheap is that they contain a broad mixture of stuff, some of which I have no interest in but you might.
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Is your main concern (1) that you don't want to pay for content you don't plan to use or (2) that you don't want this content cluttering your library, searches, guides, etc.
If the former, the answer is that even if you don't consider this content valuable, you're still getting a great value for the money for the content you do consider valuable. It would be impossible for us to construct packages that you'd love 100% of, and custom building your own package wouldn't be as economically viable in most cases. So you have to decide which options serves your needs better.
If the latter, we're working on a feature that we hope to include in a future release that may help with this. It would allow you to send some resources to the cloud and not have them installed on your local machine. They'd be in a separate category in your library and in a separate section in search, without taking up space on your drive, bandwidth to download updates, or CPU cycles to index. (Over time we'd hope to integrate cloud resources into other parts of the app like various guide sections. Eventually, we may explore streaming cloud resources, if there's enough interest in it and it's technically feasible. But initially you'd need to download a resource to view search results or open it in the web app.) This could be a possible solution to your problem, if it falls more into the second category above.
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Well, it's actually both. But now since I have made peace with myself, because I know I can't do or change anything, I just accept it. Now it's just the second one.
1. I know it is quite impossible to create the perfect package for both your company and the customers. But I just wish that the Classic Commentaries should be given more at the lower levels of BPs rather than the highest level BP such as Collector. Don't put the burden to Collector's buyers, because those who buy Collector are probably your best investors. That way we're given the sense of "getting better resources" & appreciated because there are less Classic Commentaries in the highest BP. I don't know... Just a thought. Trying to give you a proposal of solution while you still keeping your workers alive.
2. Now.. this is the real problem. Your company has been around for awhile. And you haven't really thought about customers who have really large library. And there are plenty of them I'm sure. Now, the problem with us is that, 99% of the time, we never fully utilize all of our resources. We're never given the tools to actually explore the large resources we have to connect them with the Guides or Illustrations or Cultural Concepts and what not. So..instead of hiding them I would rather see them more useful. Maybe you can better create official Collections for Classic Commentaries. Or create a better Parallel Passage drop down. (a resize-able one, like you guys did with Guide's section, where you can resize the window)... or take over Mark Barnes' Custom Collections and update them yourself whenever you come out with new resources. That way they're not as bad and we can actually remember that we have them. Remember people resources are growing higher every 2 years... please help us explore them.
Thanks
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mike said:
Now, the problem with us is that, 99% of the time, we never fully utilize all of our resources. We're never given the tools to actually explore the large resources we have to connect them with the Guides or Illustrations or Cultural Concepts and what not.
Isn't this the area that they have clearly been working on with:
- Ancient Literature
- Biblical Theologies
- Catholical Topic Index . . .
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:mike said:
Now, the problem with us is that, 99% of the time, we never fully utilize all of our resources. We're never given the tools to actually explore the large resources we have to connect them with the Guides or Illustrations or Cultural Concepts and what not.
Isn't this the area that they have clearly been working on with:
- Ancient Literature
- Biblical Theologies
- Catholic Topical Index . . .
Yes. We're always looking for ways to enrich the content in your books and extract value out into guides, search, and tools.
- Ancient literature
- Apparatuses
- Bibles
- Biblical theologies
- Commentaries
- Church documents
- Confessional documents
- Cross references
- Dictionaries and encyclopedias
- Ecclesiastical writers
- Grammars
- Illustrations
- Journals
- Lexicons
- Music
- Personal letters
- Sermon outlines
- Sermons
- Systematic theologies
We have a list of other kinds of resources and content we'd like to mark up in the future (e.g., prayers).
What would you like to see us do more of?
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First, perhaps integrate those Classic Commentaries into them. Tag them and make sure they appear in your list? (you know when I said classic commentaries, they aren't all commentaries, they often have monographs and others too)
Edit: Example: this... Would you please incorporate these type of resources into your above-list?
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Is this a possibility? Esp. on those extreme collections?
While reading the thread, I had a thought that maybe Logo/FL could do a "pick and choose" for their packages. Of the 200 billion resources (exaggeration) offered, maybe there could be pick so many from each category. Or, maybe, better yet, a new "Build your own". Obviously, the prices would vary greatly, depending on what was picked and from what category.
Just a thought; maybe a crazy idea, and too complicated.0 -
Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:
If the latter, we're working on a feature that we hope to include in a future release that may help with this. It would allow you to send some resources to the cloud and not have them installed on your local machine. They'd be in a separate category in your library and in a separate section in search, without taking up space on your drive, bandwidth to download updates, or CPU cycles to index. (Over time we'd hope to integrate cloud resources into other parts of the app like various guide sections. Eventually, we may explore streaming cloud resources, if there's enough interest in it and it's technically feasible. But initially you'd need to download a resource to view search results or open it in the web app.) This could be a possible solution to your problem, if it falls more into the second category above.
Thank you very much for that information Phil.
My preference would be cloud storage with selective download rather than streaming as streaming would require always on internet connection. Many of us still have the need to work offline. The best of both worlds would be to have the choice.
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Batman said:
Is this a possibility? Esp. on those extreme collections?
While reading the thread, I had a thought that maybe Logo/FL could do a "pick and choose" for their packages. Of the 200 billion resources (exaggeration) offered, maybe there could be pick so many from each category. Or, maybe, better yet, a new "Build your own". Obviously, the prices would vary greatly, depending on what was picked and from what category.
Just a thought; maybe a crazy idea, and too complicated.We've talked about this for years. It would be quite complicated to build, but perhaps one day.
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William Walker said:Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:
If the latter, we're working on a feature that we hope to include in a future release that may help with this. It would allow you to send some resources to the cloud and not have them installed on your local machine. They'd be in a separate category in your library and in a separate section in search, without taking up space on your drive, bandwidth to download updates, or CPU cycles to index. (Over time we'd hope to integrate cloud resources into other parts of the app like various guide sections. Eventually, we may explore streaming cloud resources, if there's enough interest in it and it's technically feasible. But initially you'd need to download a resource to view search results or open it in the web app.) This could be a possible solution to your problem, if it falls more into the second category above.
Thank you very much for that information Phil.
My preference would be cloud storage with selective download rather than streaming as streaming would require always on internet connection. Many of us still have the need to work offline. The best of both worlds would be to have the choice.
Streaming resources wouldn't be in place of cloud resources with selective download. It would be in addition to it. This would mean you could open a resource from the cloud and then decide whether to download it for offline use or not.
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Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:
Streaming resources wouldn't be in place of cloud resources with selective download. It would be in addition to it. This would mean you could open a resource from the cloud and then decide whether to download it for offline use or not.
Awesome!! That is the best of both worlds.
Thank you so much Phil. That made my day to know this is in the works. [:)]
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William Walker said:Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:
Streaming resources wouldn't be in place of cloud resources with selective download. It would be in addition to it. This would mean you could open a resource from the cloud and then decide whether to download it for offline use or not.
Awesome!! That is the best of both worlds.
Thank you so much Phil. That made my day to know this is in the works.
Just to be clear, the first part (cloud resources with selective download) is in the works and could release in one of the first several 8.x releases. The second part (streaming resources) is an idea we may pursue in the future, but it's far from "in the works."
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Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:
Just to be clear, the first part (cloud resources with selective download) is in the works and could release in one of the first several 8.x releases. The second part (streaming resources) is an idea we may pursue in the future, but it's far from "in the works."
That is perfect for my use case with a large library and some windows 10 devices with smaller hard drives. For now the first part is all I'm interested in. Thank you again Phil.
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Sorry if I went a bit off topic in my replies to Phil. In response to the OP:
mike said:I feel that the Collector's Edition has way too many Classic Commentaries, too many fluffs still. (for me at least)
What do you guys think?
I don't think we can have enough of the classic commentaries and older resources. Someone once told me they prefer to read resources from the dead writers since their ideas and commentary on the scriptures have had more time to challenged and evaluated in the lens of time. I would tend to agree.
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Thanks. Yup figured it would be, but a thought
Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:Batman said:Is this a possibility? Esp. on those extreme collections?
While reading the thread, I had a thought that maybe Logo/FL could do a "pick and choose" for their packages. Of the 200 billion resources (exaggeration) offered, maybe there could be pick so many from each category. Or, maybe, better yet, a new "Build your own". Obviously, the prices would vary greatly, depending on what was picked and from what category.
Just a thought; maybe a crazy idea, and too complicated.We've talked about this for years. It would be quite complicated to build, but perhaps one day.
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