A Suggestion for 8.1 Homepage

Agreed

Agree

[Y]

Yes!  [H]

Daniel Di Bartolo said:

did you fire up the app with the sole purpose of reading excerpts-- or did you just come across it while doing Bible study?  

Not exactly. I always had other purposes (ie: Bible study), but often was caught by those excerpts and then wound up reading a resource just because the excerpt caught my interest...or I would Favorite the resource until a later time. 

Cynthia in Florida said:

I'm not nuts about the new homepage but I can live with it.  However, please, when you make it customizable, please bring back the "excerpts from your resources."  That has consistently been my favorite thing on the homepage as I'd sit there and go, "Wow, that's a cool resource I didn't even know I had."

This says it pretty well.

1. Fix the Reading Plan, Prayers, Saints. 

2. Don't surprise us by closing down our current layout. 

3. Like Cynthia says, bring back  "excerpts from your resources." 

4. "What if we brought it back... but smarter."  Wonderful idea.  

5. "excerpts of content that are bubbled up by things like "commonly cited", "most highlighted", popular topics, commonly used media or Popular Canvases and Workflows."  Well worth a try. Maybe.  Keep an eye out in case people strongly dislike it.  My opinion is to Keep Logos Proper a Bible study software and not a social media showcase.

6. Help Videos are always good. 

7. Ads aren't all bad, but make them smart.  I never bought anything and probably never pursued anything from the Home Page--buying is not my intent or mood when I go there and it isn't a good store.  Online is a much better store. Advert marketing that works for me is special sales and resources to fill out courses,  I wonder if an algorithm could be smart enough to look at my wishlist, maybe my courses in progress or lined up to go and guess what I might soon want to buy and tell me why I might want to buy it?

I'm still trying to figure out if there's an organizational structure to the Explore section, and if so, what it is.  It seems very haphazard to me.  [:|]

Am I missing something obvious???

David Taylor Jr said:

Rick Ausdahl said:

I'm still trying to figure out if there's an organizational structure to the Explore section, and if so, what it is.  It seems very haphazard to me.   

Right now it is just random feeds from various Faithlife channels.

Thanks David.  I hope they put some order/structure to it.  I really don't find it helpful and not at all conducive in terms of effective browsing through as it is now.

Rick Ausdahl said:

David Taylor Jr said:

Rick Ausdahl said:

I'm still trying to figure out if there's an organizational structure to the Explore section, and if so, what it is.  It seems very haphazard to me.   

Right now it is just random feeds from various Faithlife channels.

Thanks David.  I hope they put some order/structure to it.  I really don't find it helpful and not at all conducive in terms of effective browsing through as it is now.

I know they are working on customizing your feeds. I don't think the homepage has ever had any "structure" per se. It has always been random articles like a newspaper. I expect the update will be the same in that respect.

Ahhh, a sense of humor. Cool. Now whether its a good sense or not, well, thats completely differemt. [:P] But it's similar to mine, so, back at me. 

Ok, so here's my dream concept:
I dont really care. 

Ok. now, there are some things I do care about. So, in meetings, PLEASE stress the importance of ditching the ads. Oh, wait, some people like the evil disgusting things in their Bible. Some do not. So, there's a way to please just about everyone. The wonderful kill switch. Personally, I love Off by default. Unfortunately, there are those I might call wackos who prefer them On by default. And no matter how blaringly loud it is broadcast from the mountain tops, a nonillion people a day will call/email/chat asking how to enable or disable the ads. So, for that, I do not envy anyone. But, for the rest of us, PLEASE just do SOMETHING to make as many of us loonies happy by being able to disable or enable the deplorable things, 

As far as the Excerpts go, I'd say the same thing should apply, The more we can customize things, by flipping switches, ticking boxes, the better. Because it will always be SWSWSWN (some will, some won't, so what, next). But, to avoid that awful sales attitude, and make things more workable for all, cuztomization works best. [:D][H]

Now I did say I don't care. And really, I don't. Just let it be clean, and customizeable, and this Bat will be happy. ^v^ ^v^ ^v^

Daniel Di Bartolo said:

I'm seeing a lot of s in this thread! Does somebody need a ride?

Dream with me a little bit here. We removed excerpts because we did hear from many users that our content seemed random and unhelpful to them.

What if we brought it back... but smarter. 

One thing we'd like to explore is introducing excerpts of content that are bubbled up by things like "commonly cited", "most highlighted", popular topics, commonly used media or Popular Canvases and Workflows. 

What kinds of content would you like to see? How would you like us to organize it? When did you find yourself looking for content to read and in what contexts?

Also, some other random Qs for you: did you fire up the app with the sole purpose of reading excerpts-- or did you just come across it while doing Bible study?  

Daniel Di Bartolo said:

Dream with me a little bit here. We removed excerpts because we did hear from many users that our content seemed random and unhelpful to them.

What if we brought it back... but smarter. 

One thing we'd like to explore is introducing excerpts of content that are bubbled up by things like "commonly cited", "most highlighted", popular topics, commonly used media or Popular Canvases and Workflows.

I would appreciate the ability to customize the kinds of books that excerpts appear from--for example, to only have Logos editions to show, or perhaps control via MyTags.

Daniel Di Bartolo said:

What kinds of content would you like to see? How would you like us to organize it? When did you find yourself looking for content to read and in what contexts?

I'd like to see pieces of art/pictures from resources in my library... but I want to be able to curate which resources they're drawn from (via MyTags would be fine for this, but not the only way). In the past, I've actually hidden certain resources so that pictures from them wouldn't appear on my homepage.

Seems that all of these are good ideas, the original excerpts and feeds, and the new ideas. I'd say do them all but let us switch them on or off, or prioritize, etc, a la Google News customization page.

Caveat, as Cynthia pointed out, if you implement excerpts by highly cited or frequently highlighted, over time those might become stale, as some books will become so popularly read that other books in our library may never have a chance to bubble to the top, no matter what cutoff threshold you use. 

But then the old excerpts (I believe they were hand-curated since Logos 4 or 5) have become stale for a long time already, so good that we will get something new and different soon. 

In general I like this "serendipity discovery" idea, although I rarely have time to browse my Home Page before jumping into a sermon prep.

Thanks,

Peter

Daniel Di Bartolo said:

We could have done a better job communicating functionality changes on the Homepage before we launched. 

We're working on an article that will list some differences between the old Hompage and new Homepage, which we hope will be helpful. 

Thanks again for voicing your feedback. 

This is beyond functionality changes Daniel, FL broke the entry point into the software for the sake of change, want to hide behind generalisations as to why they did this and at this point don’t want to answer as to why they knowingly released the software broken, called it an upgrade and charged customers for it and never warned their customers beforehand. That is more than a communication issue and it goes beyond taking the good will of your customers for granted. FL was living in that dream you are talking about when they though this was an acceptable way to treat customers. 

The problem is they have been living in that dream for a long time and not waking up from it.

PetahChristian said:

The flip side is that software is never released because it is never done.

There are some of us who are grateful to have (an imperfect) L8 now (with updates in the weeks to come), rather than waiting indefinitely for FL to finish everything that 8.0 could have been.

Thanks, FL, for doing your best in the time you had!

Thanks for saying that.  I have a remaining gripe or two with 8.0.  I bet everyone at FL has one, even Bob.  But good grief--just look at it!  We have an amazing piece of refined software.  I can't get done exploring the Bible in Logos!  

I was grateful to be part of the beta testing and saw a glimpse from inside at the work and care and team effort that made this all happen.  I am very pleased to see L8 and all its improvements and all it has to offer, not held back, but presented to serve Faithlife Customers today. Thank you, FL.

 

Curated exerpts sounds wonderful.

Instead of JUST most popular (et al) you could add in a few traditions, baptist, reformed, (etc - maybe one per BP tradition).

Then each tradition could have "most popular", "most cited", etc. Add a couple a week to each, and before a year is past you'd have quite a selection of excerpts... Bonus - you could make the excerpts show up whether we have the resource or not... Might help us decide to buy something. Or bid on a CP, or PP, etc. If we see it as useful were more likely to buy it. Well I am any way. Flashy banners do little. Substance does more to influence my purchase decisions.

Batman said:

If it's any consolation, a major percentage don't like how God did things, either. 

I just had that discussion with my niece the other day. I got to break out that great Tim Keller quote "If your god never disagrees with you, you might just be worshiping an idealized version of yourself".

Really her objection was with the ways in which sin broke the world, and we got there. But still. I LOVE that shes asking deep questions. Maybe she'll be a future Logos user

Your reading something into my comments I have never said - the software should not have been shipped at all. The features that are clearly broken and were never going to be ready should not have been shipped in a production version. No notice was given to customers by FL before purchasing that they were shipping broken software and expected people who are not beta testers to have beta grade software forced upon them without their consent.

Those who were beta testers have dropped FL in it by making it clear that it has been known for months certain aspects of the software were never going to be ready to release now. 

You yourself a few weeks ago gave away in the forums that you were beta testing with the bold but very incorrect statement that you had information Logos  8 would not be ready for release until February and thereby gave false hope to me and other people that FL was actually going to do the right thing time and not release before it was ready. Your incorrect information has contributed to my disappointment with Logos 8. If you are going to be an MVP you need to learn not to make statements like that for which you clearly had no idea what you were talking about.

PetahChristian said:

The flip side is that software is never released because it is never done.

There are some of us who are grateful to have (an imperfect) L8 now (with updates in the weeks to come), rather than waiting indefinitely for FL to finish everything that 8.0 could have been.

Thanks, FL, for doing your best in the time you had!

. 

Well you have given the impression with things you have said that you were one of the beta testers. I know you are passionate about this software, so am I which is why I hold FL to a high level of accountability. Apologies for taking my frustrations with them out on you.

PetahChristian said:

doc said:

You yourself a few weeks ago gave away in the forums that you were beta testing with the bold but very incorrect statement that you had information Logos  8 would not be ready for release until February

I have never beta tested any Logos software, version 8 or otherwise. I had no access to any information when L8 would be ready.

My first experience with L8 was after I purchased L8 less than three days ago.

L8 being released in October was as much as a pleasant surprise to me as it apparently was a disappointment to you.

doc said:

you clearly had no idea what you were talking about

Yes, that is true.

I'm sorry you assumed that a post I made weeks ago, back before FL even asked me if I wanted to become an MVP, was based on some inside information which I clearly didn't possess.

doc said:

Your incorrect information has contributed to my disappointment with Logos 8.

Speaking as someone who has made the grievous mistake of blaming another person in my life, and being angry, bitter, and resentful instead of forgiving and loving them, I hope you will not carry a grudge. I wouldn't want something that I posted to affect your relationship with God.

If God were as hard on us as we can unfortunately be with others, I'm not sure that we'd still be drawing breath. Thank God that He is compassionate and long-suffering, and that His mercy is new every morning.

doc said:

Your reading something into my comments I have never said - the software should not have been shipped at all. The features that are clearly broken and were never going to be ready should not have been shipped in a production version. No notice was given to customers by FL before purchasing that they were shipping broken software and expected people who are not beta testers to have beta grade software forced upon them without their consent.

Those who were beta testers have dropped FL in it by making it clear that it has been known for months certain aspects of the software were never going to be ready to release now. 

You yourself a few weeks ago gave away in the forums that you were beta testing with the bold but very incorrect statement that you had information Logos  8 would not be ready for release until February and thereby gave false hope to me and other people that FL was actually going to do the right thing time and not release before it was ready. Your incorrect information has contributed to my disappointment with Logos 8. If you are going to be an MVP you need to learn not to make statements like that for which you clearly had no idea what you were talking about.

This is not accurate. Nobody forced you to upgrade. That was a choice you made. What about the software is actually broken? The software is not beta grade. It is stable, functional and practical for Bible study which is why we buy the software in the first place.

The things that are not included in the software FL was upfront about so it is a little disingenuous to say that they were not. The main thing that was not ready to go was the Notes Tool and it is in the FAQ's and the sent emails out over a week ago to say hey, you should check this out ahead of time. For Connect subscribers they sent out an email saying hey, some items are not ready yet, you might not want to upgrade day 1.

They have been more than transparent about these items.  The homepage, while a lot of people are making it a big deal, is not really a huge deal in the long scheme of things. You don't need the home page to do effective Bible study and use the software as intended.

David Taylor Jr said:

This is not accurate. Nobody forced you to upgrade. That was a choice you made

Incorrect David as I Logos Connect subscriber I don't get a choice if I want to keep my Logos Connect subscription. 

David Taylor Jr said:

What about the software is actually broken?

I have already stated that many times I am not going to repeat myself to you as I don't need to justify myself to you.  You apologised to me offline yesterday and here you are again today having another go at me because I hold a different view to you.  It's now obvious that apology was shallow.

David Taylor Jr said:

The things that are not included in the software FL was upfront about so it is a little disingenuous to say that they were not.

There not upfront about it, there is nothing on the product pages disclosing this information when a user comes to make a purchasing decision.  I have seen no such information from the company that you say they have disclosed.  I have only found it out by using the software after the fact and by comments of other users.

David Taylor Jr said:

The main thing that was not ready to go was the Notes Tool and it is in the FAQ's

What FAQ ? I don't' see one on the any of the pages for the base packages and in reference to the Notes Phil Gons told me FL would not release Logos 8 if the notes in the desktop software were not ready so you are only confirming that he broke his word to me. And second that is a load of rubbish the Notes tool is the only thing that is not ready. The home page is not working correctly, you have pointed this out yourself in comments elsewhere and have been spruiking that Logos will fix it up all by version 8.1.  I guess they will have Notes all fixed up too and deliver on their promise of regular journals by 8.1 also.  You are so quick to forget that you too voice displeasure with FL when it suits you but don't seem to think I have a right to voice my displeasure.

David Taylor Jr said:

They have been more than transparent about these items

As I pointed out above FL were not transparent about any of this at all  and a FL employee even admitted they communicated poorly about changes to the home page and same employee made the generalisation that some changes were made based on the feedback of 'many users'.  Yet here you are saying the 'feedback' of 'a lot of users' doesn't count all because it's not important to you. You are doing nothing different to what you accuse me of doing.  

David if you didn't mean you apology yesterday that's fine, that's between you and God, your attitude towards me says you didn't' mean it.  But get of your high horse and respect other users will have different view to you at times and learn the more you have a go at me the more you will only feed the fire, you are doing nothing to put it out. You are the one that needs to let go.

Veli Voipio said:

I did like the pictures from my resources

[Y]