Mac Book System Specs Suggestions From the Everyday User

The Alienware m15x I picked up at Best Buy last month had some issues with freezin' and crashin' so I took it back to Best Buy and got my money back. The i7, 4gb DDR3 RAM, 512MB dedicated graphics card, and the 7200rpm HDD sure made Logos 4 mighty quick. I've been eyeing up a Mac Book in its place and wondered if those who are using Logos 4 in their everyday life could offer some suggestions as to what I should be looking at. Is the 15" Mac Book Pro with the dual graphics card overkill or is it worth giving serious consideration too? My Logos library is the Scholar's Platinum.

I realize Logos has posted their recommended system specs but I was looking for some input from folks who are putting L4 Mac to use everyday. I've never owned a Mac Book so I appreciate all the help!

Chris

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Tom Philpot (Faithlife)

I've got a MacPro at work, but a MacBook 13.3" 2.0 Ghz (late 2008) at home with 4GB of Ram and a 160GB 5400 rpm disk. I would recommend 4 GB of Ram and a 7200 RPM disk (or SSD if money is no object ). In my experience, those two things make the biggest initial difference, followed next by processor speed. I don't think the graphics card will help much. In fact, our lead Mac developer has a 17" MacBook Pro which he's never switched to the nVidia card.

Just my 2 cents.

Chris Hulshof

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/101512#Comment_101512

Thanks Tom! The jump from 5400RPM to 7200RPM would be a customize feature since the standard in Mac Book seems to be the 5400 speed. I'm limited to what Best Buy carries since they refunded my money in a gift card/store credit but the MAC store is right across the street so I imagine I could just head over there and get them to do the upgrade. Your graphics card suggestion is quite interesting. On the PC side, some with a higher end dedicated graphics card 512mb to 1gb have noted better performance. What's in the MAC version that wouldn't require the dedicated graphics card or is it another one of those general benefits of the way a MAC is built over the way a PC is built? Do you wish you had a 15" screen instead of 13" when you are running Logos 4? My last two laptops have been 17" and I want to get something smaller (and lighter - the Alienware was a beast!) and thought 13" might be to small.

Chris

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

Appears Best Buy has many sku's waiting for newer MacBook Pro models:

http://www.macrumors.com/2010/02/17/the-wait-for-new-macbook-pros-continues-more-best-buy-skus-found/

Mac Rumors web site has a buyer's guide: http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/ with links to rumors, including month old item:

http://www.macrumors.com/2010/02/06/unreleased-core-i7-macbook-pro-61-benchmarked-supplies-constrained/

Keep Smiling [:)]

Pat Flanakin

Depends on your budget and your preferred setup. Some people use a laptop as a desktop as well with an external monitor, so the size of the laptop screen is of no consequence at home; however, smaller screen models have default smaller/lower performance specs and limited expandability.

I have the early 2009 17" MB Pro. It came with 2.93 Ghz with 320GB 7200 harddrive and 4GB RAM.

Since purchasing it, I have upgraded to the following:

1) Removed the superdrive DVD drive and put in another hard drive at 500GB 7200; I plan to go to all SSD in the next 2 years when the 200GB drives come down to around $250 a piece (they are at $700 right now)

2) Increased RAM to 8GB ($400 cost), but worth every penny and the cost is around $350 to upgrade now.

I run L4 through VM3 in Win XP SP3. I have no problems; however, the only thing I use Windows for is L4, so it doesn't compete with other things on there as well. I use SpeedUpMyPC and Registry Booster regularly to keep Windows "maintenanced" and clean. I have allocated 2GB RAM to VM and it never uses it all (most of the time no more than 500MB RAM being used at any given time in Win XP SP3 when L4 is running).

I think the only other thing I would like to add to my setup is a 30 inch screen (you can get these for under $300 now). I don't need anything which is color accurate, etc..., just good enough to have some further breathing room for viewing.

Last thing is that I backup using Time Machine at least once a week, if not more. I use an express card with eSATA connectors to an external 1.5TB hard drive (I actually have two drives, but one is for photos, the other for backups).

My 500GB hard drive holds all my data while my original 320 GB hard drive hold only installed applications. I do hear, whenever starting up my VM Ware, my second hard drive spinning up, which means an SSD there would make L4 much faster since it is hard drive intensive with everything locally installed and saved (meaning all resources are saved locally for access offline). The 500GB hard drive is also partitioned to have an exact startup boot disk of my original boot disk just in case my 320GB original hard drive decides to die on me. This way I can keep working until replacing the second hard drive. I just may wait to get an SSD until these hard drives die. I remember when I used to have a Dell I purchased in 2003, which was a top of the line model at that time, the hard drive (which was only 40GB) lasted until last year, so that was 6 years. My MB Pro is just a year old, so perhaps when these drives wear out (and they are likely better made so may last 10 years), SSD's with 3 TBs will be lightning fast and about $100 a piece. I wonder what the avant guard tech will be in storage at that time (if we are not raptured first)?

Hope this helps.

Chris Hulshof

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/101598#Comment_101598

Pat - that's quite a system! I am sure that L4 runs super smooth on that machine. I am trying to stay away from 17" models. Your original specs seem close to the ones I had in the M15x. I'd want to try to stay away from adding a Windows partition to the hard drive and was kind of waiting to see how much longer it was until L4 Mac goes from Alpha to Beta...although judging from what I've read in here it seems somewhat stable for weekly sermon prep.

Keep Smilin' - Thanks for the MAC rumor link. I'm not in a "must have" hurry since I have an old laptop that is able to run L3 and will have the new books from my L4 upgrade added to it at the end of the week. I think I can wait to see if those rumors pan out. I was already planning on waiting to see if MAC brought back the "buy a Mac Book get an iPod free" promotion again in June.

Chris

David Buckham

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/101609#Comment_101609

I have a MacBook from around Aug of 2008 running a 2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo with 2GB RAM (OS is Leopard till this weekend when I upgrade to Snow Leopard) and it works great! Occasionally I have a hang on launch and if I leave Logos4 open for more than a day it lags when trying to change my study around. Any Mac that is new now should be more than sufficient to run Logos4.

all about Christ,

David Buckham

Mike S.

If you're asking if you want the Macbook Pro, or just the Macbook, I would STRONGLY suggest the Pro model. It isn't that there is an "additional" card, it is that the card uses dedicated video memory as opposed to using some of your main memory. If you don't have the card, you're basically loosing 256M of memory to running your video card. I would suggest going with the MBP mid-range model (2.66Ghz CPU today) or higher.

I would suggest you pick up the minimal main memory config (4gb today) and then upgrade through the OWC memory offer for 8GB for ~$400 if you find you're swapping (if you're going to use VMWare or Parallels just build it into your budget straight away), definitely get the 7200RPM drive even if it is smaller.

I would also strongly recommend you get apple care and do not trade in your memory to OWC when you upgrade. If something goes wrong, you'll need to swap back in the old memory.

Mike

Mike S.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/101609#Comment_101609

If you can wait, definitely wait! The next gen of processors will hit soon too.

That promo has run for at least the past 3 years that I can remember. (you can get the ipod touch too for a much lower price if you prefer).

Pat Flanakin

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/101609#Comment_101609

I'd want to try to stay away from adding a Windows partition to the hard drive

Chris

FYI - VMware doesn't use a partition like bootcamp...it is an application which runs windows like an application. VM allows for you to use a "unity" setting which places windows right in with your other Mac applications so you would flip between applications on Windows and Mac as though they are on the same operating system. I only have a separate partition on my 500GB drive for two reasons.

1) Using partitions can restrict the OS from saving/installing programs to the slower area of the drive (the area closer to the spindle is slowest, physics 101). Use Disk utility to set these up before your drive has anything on it because partitioning after you have loaded programs requires you to wipe the drive.

2) I simply like to keep data on a separate drive than that drive I have my applications installed on; that way the drive doesn't seek and hunt as much.

Also, two drives does reduce battery life, but I would rather have a backup for my OS boot and sacrifice a couple hours of battery life, than have no working computer at all due to a drive failure (and they will fail someday).

See this website for the best Mac setup advice I have ever come across, for FREE!

http://macperformanceguide.com/index.html

Roger Feenstra

Here are my specs. Logos runs very well for me. I also have an iMac quad core with 8GB. There is not a huge difference in performance for me between these two (when it comes to running Logos). 4 GB of RAM works well, but if you can spring some cash for more, go for it.

Model Name: MacBook

Model Identifier: MacBook5,1

Processor Name: Intel Core 2 Duo

Processor Speed: 2.4 GHz

Number Of Processors: 1

Total Number Of Cores: 2

L2 Cache: 3 MB

Memory: 4 GB

Bus Speed: 1.07 GHz

Boot ROM Version: MB51.007D.B03

SMC Version (system): 1.32f8

Serial Number (system): W8906L7V1AX

Hardware UUID: 39D3DAA9-7B30-52C3-850B-BD0B473B57FC

Sudden Motion Sensor:

State: Enabled

David Buckham

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/101645#Comment_101645

I guess a lot of this can be settled by a definition of "Everyday User". Do you mean someone who uses Logos every day or someone who is just an average "joe" using Logos.

I believe any Mac that is new today or the for last 2 years will perform with Logos 4 sufficiently. You are looking at getting a new Mac, then you should be fine. The more expensive/more tech the Mac, in theory, the better it will run.

The normal/average joe user won't need 8GB of RAM or SSD drives or even be concerned with 1TB of HDD or processing power with more than 4 cores. Those things will speed up Logos, sure, but are not necessary for what I understand the Everyday User to be.

all about Christ,
David

Chris Hulshof

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/101814#Comment_101814

Thanks for all that's been posted here already. Lots to read and think about.

David - I use Logos almost everyday and use it for Sunday sermon prep and for digging in a little deeper in personal Bible study. I do use the language tools for word studies. My concern is that on the PC side of it some people were lamenting how slow L4 is on their system (even some PC's that were brand new straight of the shelf) and I didn't want that so I went big with the Alienware. I have L4 Scholar's Platinum so while it's not the biggest library it is a decent size I would think. I want a Mac Book that will be able to handle it with ease. The Alienware shredded L4 with its speed. Since I got used to that kind of speed I don't want a slow running L4 on my Mac and the friendly Mac store genius said post in the forum and see what others are using so you know what not to get...so I'm taking his advice.

Interestingly, if it was the end of last year I don't know If I would be in this forum asking this question. However, my wife picked out a Mac Mini to replace our very aged family desktop and I was hooked from the moment it was my turn to mess around with it. Now I'm not interested in getting another PC laptop. I actually think that the Mac Mini seemd as fast as the Alienware was before it decided to freeze and crash.

Chris

David Buckham

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/101832#Comment_101832

Chris,

If you are used to speed, a beefy MacBook will be for you then. I would look at a MacBook Pro (the links above are great). If I had it to do over again, I would have tried to hold out for a Pro.

I have an older PC that is running (actually crawling) Logos 4. My friend has a comparable PC laptop to my MacBook and Logos is much faster on mine. I know there are little software tweaks you can do to a Windows machine to help speed, but I don't know about Mac.

I just switched back to Mac 1 1/2 years ago after a 15 year hiatus from Mac...I mean Macintosh. So far my experience has been the Mac just processes "stuff" faster. So if you want to affect your speed, change your hardware. Adding RAM really does help a Mac. It is not always noticeable on a PC.

All that being said, Logos does have some intense specs, but it's also some powerful software (more so on the PC side of things for now).

all about Christ,
David

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/101841#Comment_101841

If buying new MacBook today, suggest visiting MicroCenter to take advantage of $ 200 instant rebate:

http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0321997

Another purchase option is waiting for refurbished Mac's on Apple's Store (same 1 year warranty as new with 14 day return option):

http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/specialdeals/mac

For example, 27" iMac with i7 Quad Core is $ 1,849 refurbished, bit less than $ 2,199 retail (and $ 2.067 employee purchase price).

Note: recently have not seen 13" and 15" refurbished MacBook Pro models.

Keep Smiling [:)]

Chris Hulshof

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/101951#Comment_101951

Thanks again for all the responses to my post - lots to look through and think about. I appreciate you taking the time to respond!

Keep Smilin' - I'm not in a hurry since I am making do with my old laptop and L3. I don't know if I dare try to learn a Mac and mess with an Alpha program at the same time. Is that to much of a learning curve? I was kinda thinkin' 'bout jumping in when it hits Beta but what is the development difference with a close to the end Alpha version and a first version Beta product? I'll try to nurse a couple more months out of L3 on my old Laptop while I wait to see what Mac will do with a Mac Book Pro refresh.

Chris

Scott Stackelhouse

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/102100#Comment_102100

Yes, definitely wait for the refresh. Apple has no laptop remotely comparable to the speed of the alienware with the core-i7. They are overdue for a refresh, and it seems their relationship with intel is on ice (no doubt due to the choice of processor in the iphone and getting into the chip business for ipad). Who knows when will see i5/i7 in a macbook/macbook pro...

I use a macbook pro 13.3, 2.26 with 4 gigs. It's great for a lot of everyday stuff. Logos on Mac is pretty painful still, but it's alpha... logos in fusion/parallels is about as painful in terms of performance, but it's at least feature complete.

I haven't tried bootcamp yet.

--Scott

Michael Kares

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/102152#Comment_102152

I hope they don't switch architectures again. That would probably be disastrous from a program standpoint.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/102100#Comment_102100

Keep Smilin' - I'm not in a hurry since I am making do with my old laptop and L3. I don't know if I dare try to learn a Mac and mess with an Alpha program at the same time. Is that to much of a learning curve? I was kinda thinkin' 'bout jumping in when it hits Beta but what is the development difference with a close to the end Alpha version and a first version Beta product? I'll try to nurse a couple more months out of L3 on my old Laptop while I wait to see what Mac will do with a Mac Book Pro refresh.

Chris

Apple's web site has Mac 101 information: http://www.apple.com/support/mac101/work/ and Pro tips: http://www.apple.com/pro/tips/

Also visiting an Apple Store can be very helpful - staff rated on face time (not sales) with customers so have incentive to help - tables have many demonstration computers (become refurbished later). If have problem with Mac, suggest an appointment with Genius Bar - have experienced and heard good things.

Likewise waiting to see MacBook Pro refresh.

Keep Smiling [:)]

James Garriss

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/102439#Comment_102439

I bought the MacBook that just came out last Thanksgiving (the white MacBook, not the Pro) with Snow Leopard, and it runs L4 for Mac just fine. I did upgrade to 4 GB RAM. Of course the screen is only 13", so it's a bit small, but you could always hook up an external monitor to get more screen space. I also have a 2 year old 20" iMac, and it runs it just fine as well. So although a MacBook would be spiffy, it's not required IMHO.

Chris Hulshof

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/102489#Comment_102489

Thanks James. I did think the 13" screen was going to be a little on the small side; especially since the laptop I have now is a 17". I was looking at splitting the difference and going with the 15" Mac Book Pro - thought about the dual graphics card model but that sounds like it might be overkill. I think I can get another month or two out of my old laptop so I can wait and see what the Mac Book refresh produces.

Chris

Harry Swayne

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/102598#Comment_102598

I've dove in on the learning curve went MAC and Logos 4 at the same time. Been a Logos user since 2003 so I felt I was ready. I've learned a lot about the process behind Logos and love the intuitiveness of a MAC.