For Lands Sakes, Don't Cancel Your Brill Etymological Prepub

Yes, it's shipping. After those yummy leftovers and stocking returns:

https://www.logos.com/product/55648/etymological-dictionary-of-greek

It was part of the Brill greek package that almost, but then got blown sky high at the Logosland target practice. Hebrew was smitherings.

And the discount is approx 50%.

And Brill rarely (ever?) discounts.

And, yes, etymo's are dangerous in a Sunday sermon, but at least have a good one to check.

And finally, look at your other choices .... 1890 classical?

Oh! For the geeky greekies, sure, Homer. But all the way to Hesychius!

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Comments

Small Heath

I must have signed up later than you, I'm only getting a 47% discount. This is on my chopping block because of budget overruns. [^o)]

David Paul

And, yes, etymo's are dangerous in a Sunday sermon, but at least have a good one to check.

It's possible to O.D. on almost anything, but that doesn't mean it's bad for you. One of Barr's most famous moments was his supposed "success" in showing the foolhardiness of etymological validities. He thereby convinced a lot of people to dispose of the baby. Doing so was, is, and forever will be an error all it own.

DAL

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1019404#Comment_1019404

I must have signed up later than you, I'm only getting a 47% discount. This is on my chopping block because of budget overruns.

The $104 price tag is the one she’s talking about. It was either $299 or $399, I cannot remember. Then after much complaining the publisher decided to lower the price. I’m going to skip it 👍😁👌

DAL

Bruce Dunning

And the discount is approx 50%.

And Brill rarely (ever?) discounts.

I am vacillating about this one. I pretty much had decided not to go for it and now your post is making me rethink it.....again. [:S]

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1019437#Comment_1019437

I must have signed up later than you, I'm only getting a 47% discount. This is on my chopping block because of budget overruns.

The $104 price tag is the one she’s talking about. It was either $299 or $399, I cannot remember. Then after much complaining the publisher decided to lower the price. I’m going to skip it 👍😁👌

DAL

To be honest, my goal was to remind any greek lovers out there, a good discount, and the period covered is quite extensive.. I assume Dale was joking ... 47% is approx 50%. I think. The 2 volumes were in the Brill greek collection that went from almost-there, to almost nobody. Then great knashing of forumite teeth, as DAL notes.

Mr Paul's comment about Barr is certainly good. But I would argue that unknown Bible words can never remain unknown ... a hinted root, a nearby language from another century ... scholars will deliver, even if Tanakh footnotes the guess as ... unknown. My favorite Barr discussion was regarding Philo of Byblos.

Small Heath

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1019446#Comment_1019446

I assume Dale was joking ... 47% is approx 50%. I think.

A closer approximation is 47.502375% [:O][;)]

Greg F

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1019446#Comment_1019446

I've been in from the beginning and I'll be with it to the end. This dictionary is a big deal at a pretty good price all things considered (check out the hardback price on Amazon, and that's without Logos tagging and integration).

Robert M. Warren

Hesychius!

Gesundheit

Graham Criddle

Thanks Denise

I've placed an order!

Graham

Kevin A Lewis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1019508#Comment_1019508

I also have been in since the beginning - and very looking forward to this one.

A huge resource and worth a tidy sum - so stomp up your 'tidy sums' people.

Shalom

Bruce Dunning

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1019514#Comment_1019514

I'd be interested to hear from you folks how you practically plan to use this resource. Perhaps it will help with my vacillation.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1019535#Comment_1019535

I'd be interested to hear from you folks how you practically plan to use this resource. Perhaps it will help with my vacillation.

This probably won't help your case of vacillation. But my interest is primarily, first in the period surrounding Egypt and the Hittite kingdom (modern Turkey). And secondly the Bible-connect in the odd use of the word sometimes tramslated 'isles' (OT). And the latter, as regards the Phoenicians, and specifically Philo of Byblos. The greeks HAD to be all over Canaan, trade routes on the south, trade with Egyptians further north. Ergo, the languages.

But closer to Logosian interests, this volume I regard as 'core' (as also BDAG and HALOT), and a secondary go to, especially on loosy-goosy words (for which, Christians early on specialized in).

Extra: the volume is actually part of a series:

https://brill.com/view/serial/IEED

And Beekes' expertise matches so well.

EDIT:

Apparently the example pages for vol 1 on Logos.com are the encyclopaedia. But the pages on vol 2 are instructive.

This one below, illustrates the possible connect for barley cake, between the greek (LXX) and hebrew.

Chris Galloway

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1019552#Comment_1019552

You convinced me! I've placed an order too.

Chris

Small Heath

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1019572#Comment_1019572

You convinced me! I've placed an order too.

Chris

Yes, I've decided not to cancel. I'm a sucker for a bargain and this looks like a good one.

Bruce Dunning

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1019552#Comment_1019552

I'd be interested to hear from you folks how you practically plan to use this resource. Perhaps it will help with my vacillation.

But closer to Logosian interests, this volume I regard as 'core' (as also BDAG and HALOT), and a secondary go to, especially on loosy-goosy words (for which, Christians early on specialized in).

So, in what ways would you see this as "core" as BDAG and HALOT?

Veli Voipio

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1019442#Comment_1019442

your post is making me rethink it.....again.

Well, same here, rethinking is always dangerous ...

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1019695#Comment_1019695

I'd be interested to hear from you folks how you practically plan to use this resource. Perhaps it will help with my vacillation.

But closer to Logosian interests, this volume I regard as 'core' (as also BDAG and HALOT), and a secondary go to, especially on loosy-goosy words (for which, Christians early on specialized in).

So, in what ways would you see this as "core" as BDAG and HALOT?

Well, you're a long time forumite. As I've stated periodically, I view BDAG as a theological dictionary. Assigning a meaning to a verse demands knowing the meaning in that verse. I've used the example of ones own pastor, same language, same day ... would a expert listener correctly assign meaning? Our pastor sadly shakes his head at what folks think he meant. But the same principle applies for any religious writer ... strictly guesswork. And so, side volumes like MM, Logos' own huge searches, and a good etymo-dictionary are helpful, to at least see what possibles are there. And specific to my current interest, the greek-semitic crossover.

On the HALOT side, the problem is a little different (an etymo dictionary). The fallacy there is presuming hebrew from different periods and geography had the same meaning and significance (even within the major groupings). So, reaching out to side languages and their timing is helpful.

Bruce Dunning

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1019770#Comment_1019770

And so, side volumes like MM, Logos' own huge searches, and a good etymo-dictionary are helpful, to at least see what possibles are there.

Well, I am finally convinced. I loved understanding the origins of words and love to study Greek so that's why I'm interested in this. I have placed my order as I doubt it will ever be less money in the future. Thanks for sharing your thoughts Denise.

Manuel Maria

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1019799#Comment_1019799

Just to compare, BDAG does not have a specific entry for μᾶζα, and Liddell & Scott states:

μᾶζα, ἡ or μάζα, (on the accentuation see Hdn.Gr.2.937, Moeris p.258 P.) barley-cake, Archil.2, Hdt.1.200, Democr.246, etc.; ἀμολγαίη Hes.Op.590; κυρβαίη (v.l. κυρκ-) Hom.Epigr.15.6; φυστή Ar.V.610: distd. from ἄρτος (wheaten bread), Hp.VM8, cf. Acut.37, Aff.52, Ar.Ec.606, Antiph.226.1, X.Cyr.1.2.11, Ath.3.114e; μ. καὶ ὕδωρ Epicur.Ep.3 p.64 U.; δουλίας μ. τυχεῖν to eat the bread of slavery, A.Ag.1041: prov., ἀγαθὴ καὶ μᾶζα μετʼ ἄρτον, of second best things, Zen.1.12; μᾶζαν μεμαχώς having baked a cake, with a play on μάχην μεμαχημένος, Ar.Eq.55, see also μᾶδδα.
II. generally, lump, mass, ball, LXXBel27, Suid. s.v. παλάθαι; χρυσοῦ J.AJ5.1.10, cf. Dsc.5.79: esp. in Alchemy, amalgam, ἀνέκλειπτος μ. PHolm.2.17, PLeid.X.7.

LIDDELL, H. G. ET AL., A Greek-English lexicon, 1072.

Veli Voipio

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1019799#Comment_1019799

Well, I am finally convinced. I loved understanding the origins of words and love to study Greek so that's why I'm interested in this. I have placed my order as I doubt it will ever be less money in the future. Thanks for sharing your thoughts Denise.

Well, I finally made the same decision ( in the last hours ). Thanks Denise and others!

I tend to discount etymology because of my linguistic background in WBT, but on the other hand the hidden scholar in me likes etymology [:$]

Now I can comfort myself thinking that I am in the same sinking boat as many others, but maybe tomorrow I'll be much happier!

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1023555#Comment_1023555

Just chatting. But I'm on a recent volume, yet discussing Holy Ghost greek again. The statistical patterns compared to greek of the day, and intra-NT patterns. I'm also reading an Enoch volume, and its similarities in language to the NT ... 'Enochian judaism'. Another dimension.

Obviously naive etymology is naive. English has thousands of examples. But when I hear a new word, I quickly want to know where THAT came from. Especially if it quickly becomes popular.

So also words and usages, as one 'floats' into the 1st century. Some, one can surmise are arriving from 2nd Temple usage. But given the significant mixing of languages by Roman slavery, the NT had to have been a challenge. Ergo, other writers as well as languages.

Just my opinion, also, but I'm not convinced 'what' language (including religiously loaded vocabulary) was common in Judea, or even the towns sirrounding Galilee. Apparently John the B was fluent in greek (Antipas).

John Kight

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1023555#Comment_1023555

Well, I finally made the same decision ( in the last hours ). Thanks Denise and others!

[<:o)] Me too! [<:o)]

Bruce Dunning

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1023570#Comment_1023570

Mine just download and indexed. I'm excited to explore it now!

Glad I participated in the prepub before the price doubled!

Michael S.

Sadly, I had to cancel my order last minute...

Financial reasons only...

Glad many got it though at a good price.

DAL

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1023804#Comment_1023804

While I don’t question the quality of the resource, I have yet to hear a strong compelling argument to buy it other than it has an entry for nipple that is not found elsewhere 👍😁👌 Sorry, I skipped it. I’m just waiting for the old testament theology mobile Ed. It should ship anytime soon.

DAL

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1023799#Comment_1023799

Mine just download and indexed. I'm excited to explore it now!

Glad I participated in the prepub before the price doubled!

Thanks for the news! I thought it might be a long weekend.

I tried it out on my Noet ... lots of [?]'s. I guess you're supposed to not use it for greek studies (joking). The web app displays correctly ... I'm guessing the web app skips over the unknown chars, since they don't show at all.

But, happy. We've been Brill-ified for a couple years, I suspect.

Bruce Dunning

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1023807#Comment_1023807

Denise, I think you are going to love it. On a side note, when did you make the leap from Libby to L7? Have you abandoned Libby altogether?

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1023806#Comment_1023806

While I don’t question the quality of the resource, I have yet to hear a strong compelling argument to buy it other than it has an entry for nipple that is not found elsewhere 👍😁👌 Sorry, I skipped it. I’m just waiting for the old testament theology mobile Ed. It should ship anytime soon.

DAL

Watching a movie is a very compelling argument, I say!

Bruce Dunning

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1023804#Comment_1023804

Sadly, I had to cancel my order last minute...

Sorry to hear that Michael. Perhaps you can pick it up in the future at a great price too.

DAL

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1023809#Comment_1023809

I’m glad it downloaded for you Denise or else I’m sure you probably would’ve been asking for a refund on Monday 😜 The Same movie 🎥 🍿 every now and then 😂

Anyway, at least you and others get to enjoy it for now. Let us know if anything changes.

DAL

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1023814#Comment_1023814

I’m glad it downloaded for you Denise or else I’m sure you probably would’ve been asking for a refund on Monday 😜 The Same movie 🎥 🍿 every now and then 😂

Anyway, at least you and others get to enjoy it for now. Let us know if anything changes.

DAL

You're right! And last week, it downloaded the Samaritan too. I sort of miss chatting with the refund people ... they're quite nice. Though they seem to get exhausted suggesting you chat with the sales people.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1023808#Comment_1023808

Denise, I think you are going to love it. On a side note, when did you make the leap from Libby to L7? Have you abandoned Libby altogether?

Libby, BillyBoy (that's Bibleworks, easier to remember), and L7 are all safely residing off line.

I saying safely, since I thought I had Gramcord but no hint of it in my library. So, I started checking to see if Logos was over-writing morphologies. It turns out, Libby's OpenText morphology was over-written. I have suspicions Gramcord was over-written half-way thru Libby. Luckily I kept my CDs, and have the earlier cut. Anyway, I went ahead and replaced Gramcord (NA27) since it'll likely get pulled soon enough. GBS volumes are like fish ... they swim away.

Ted Hans

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1023806#Comment_1023806

While I don’t question the quality of the resource, I have yet to hear a strong compelling argument to buy it other than it has an entry for nipple that is not found elsewhere 👍😁👌 Sorry, I skipped it. I’m just waiting for the old testament theology mobile Ed. It should ship anytime soon.

DAL

Dal, from a few entries i have looked up i think you made the right decision. Comparing it with other lexicons in my library, I don't think you would be missing much, and for preaching nothing i read stood out. Just my opinion.

Lee

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1023879#Comment_1023879

To add to that, it is arguable whether a diachronic slice of meaning is exegetically critical. I've yet to see a clear example. Maybe, for some hapax legomena? I'd be interested if anyone has an example of exegetical clarity as a result of this approach.

DAL

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1023879#Comment_1023879

While I don’t question the quality of the resource, I have yet to hear a strong compelling argument to buy it other than it has an entry for nipple that is not found elsewhere 👍😁👌 Sorry, I skipped it. I’m just waiting for the old testament theology mobile Ed. It should ship anytime soon.

DAL

Dal, from a few entries i have looked up i think you made the right decision. Comparing it with other lexicons in my library, I don't think you would be missing much, and for preaching nothing i read stood out. Just my opinion.

Thanks Ted! I think I have plenty for my OL Studies. And like you said, if nothing stands out for preaching, then chances are I won’t be using it very much.

Now, let’s close out the year with Old Testament Theology this Monday. I’m sure that will be a great study 👍😁👌

DAL

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1023804#Comment_1023804

Sadly, I had to cancel my order last minute...

Financial reasons only...

Glad many got it though at a good price.

A good word of advice, Michael S., and I’m sure others can attest to this —-> Logos can be highly addictive! So it’s good that you’re forcing yourself to exercise self control. It doesn’t matter how bad you think you want something it can always wait. It doesn’t matter if others are talking about how good a resource is don‘t buy it on impulse if you can’t afford it yet. You’ve lived without it before you can manage to live without it today.

I know it’s tough at times but, hey, it is what it is. Continue exercising self-control and you will definitely avoid getting yourself into unnecessary financial hardships and you will definitely avoid having your wife hitting you with the skillet 🍳 on the top of your head 👍😁👌

DAL

Bruce Dunning

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1023818#Comment_1023818

Libby, BillyBoy (that's Bibleworks, easier to remember), and L7 are all safely residing off line.

I thought this could be the case as I could not see you forsaking your first love.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1023881#Comment_1023881

To add to that, it is arguable whether a diachronic slice of meaning is exegetically critical. I've yet to see a clear example. Maybe, for some hapax legomena? I'd be interested if anyone has an example of exegetical clarity as a result of this approach.

I can't imagine exegetical clarity .. there's 28 gentlemen (and a lady) who exegete differently for their respective flocks on Sunday morning here ... none seem uncomfortable, though Paul warns that 28 have an uncertain future. Meaning is in doctrine ... if one literally exegeted, you'd arrive with the apostolic fathers (in an iffy world).

Lee

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1023909#Comment_1023909

Ergo, no need for this dictionary? [6]

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1023924#Comment_1023924

Ergo, no need for this dictionary?

For the 28.

Michael S.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1023886#Comment_1023886

Sadly, I had to cancel my order last minute...

Financial reasons only...

Glad many got it though at a good price.

A good word of advice, Michael S., and I’m sure others can attest to this —-> Logos can be highly addictive! So it’s good that you’re forcing yourself to exercise self control. It doesn’t matter how bad you think you want something it can always wait. It doesn’t matter if others are talking about how good a resource is don‘t buy it on impulse if you can’t afford it yet. You’ve lived without it before you can manage to live without it today.

I know it’s tough at times but, hey, it is what it is. Continue exercising self-control and you will definitely avoid getting yourself into unnecessary financial hardships and you will definitely avoid having your wife hitting you with the skillet 🍳 on the top of your head 👍😁👌

DAL

Thank you for the understanding. It is really sad for me this year- so many great deals on Black Friday and Christmas that I had to miss out on. Had to return v8, and oh the speed is gone (along with canvas and the rest). I also had to cancel my prepub for the OT course you are anticipating today ($100 was a steal of a deal!)... but like you said I dont "NEED" it right now. So, I am dealing the best I can. Mostly by not shopping the deals. If I dont know there is a deal, I wont miss it. Hopefully v9 I will be set to take advantage.

Thank you and Denise and Bruce for your sympathies to my plight.

Praying everyone has a blessed new year, may you grow closer to the Lord and walk worthy of his high calling.

Bruce Dunning

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1024413#Comment_1024413

Thank you and Denise and Bruce for your sympathies to my plight.

Michael, I admire that you made a wise financial decision, especially in a day and age when people so easily go into more and more debt by purchasing on credit. The pain of financial discipline is far superior to the pain of future regret. May the Lord provide you with a prosperous 2019.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1024424#Comment_1024424

Thank you and Denise and Bruce for your sympathies to my plight.

Michael, I admire that you made a wise financial decision, especially in a day and age when people so easily go into more and more debt by purchasing on credit. The pain of financial discipline is far superior to the pain of future regret. May the Lord provide you with a prosperous 2019.

Michael, I realize this doesn't help, but for whatever reason, we've been un-consuming the last few months. After the pre-L8 library sales, we've been pretty much in the desert ... skipped L8 sales, Christmas, etc. Not a money issue, just suspect harder times ahead (inflated market, stumbling commerce, unsettled populations, etc). I think your wise actions reflect good character .... just guessing!

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1023799#Comment_1023799

Mine just download and indexed. I'm excited to explore it now!

Glad I participated in the prepub before the price doubled!

Bruce, check out 'Zeus'. Especially the varients, and the relation to 'heaven'.

Just being a chatty Kathy, but I'm (VERY slowly) making my way through Smith's Priestly Vision of Genesis 1 (Kindle) ... Gen 1:1. Will have to look closer. "Heavens and the earth".

Ok, I better shut up. Zuthos. Associated with Egypt and beer. Herodotus says no wine in Egypt ... beer (some argument). Now, I'll have to see where the barley came from ... Canaan? Sounds very southern Judah-ish.

Bruce Dunning

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1024489#Comment_1024489

check out 'Zeus'. Especially the varients, and the relation to 'heaven'.

I had no idea that Zeus was connected to beer and brewing. Strange etymology indeed. Let me know when you discover the origins of barley.

Veli Voipio

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1024489#Comment_1024489

I tried to check the word γινομαι - and surprise, it is not in this dictionary when I use the Bible Word Study.

But it is there, under γίγνομαι. I found it using the ordinary text search.

Mostly Logos is excellent in the links and searches, but sometimes some detective work is needed. Actually I like it, but in long run it is probably good to fix those cases, although that might be a major effort.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1024502#Comment_1024502

I tried to check the word γινομαι - and surprise, it is not in this dictionary when I use the Bible Word Study.

But it is there, under γίγνομαι. I found it using the ordinary text search.

Mostly Logos is excellent in the links and searches, but sometimes some detective work is needed. Actually I like it, but in long run it is probably good to fix those cases, although that might be a major effort.

Yep ... also doesn't link to itself or much else. Looks like technical books aren't likely in Logos' future. Tov's still missing?

Bruce Dunning

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1024508#Comment_1024508

I tried to check the word γινομαι - and surprise, it is not in this dictionary when I use the Bible Word Study.

But it is there, under γίγνομαι. I found it using the ordinary text search.

Mostly Logos is excellent in the links and searches, but sometimes some detective work is needed. Actually I like it, but in long run it is probably good to fix those cases, although that might be a major effort.

Yep ... also doesn't link to itself or much else. Looks like technical books aren't likely in Logos' future. Tov's still missing?

It looks like Faithlife still has some work to do on this.

Deacon Steve

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1023555#Comment_1023555

Well, I am finally convinced. I loved understanding the origins of words and love to study Greek so that's why I'm interested in this. I have placed my order as I doubt it will ever be less money in the future.

Well, I finally made the same decision ( in the last hours ).

Wow! Totally missed this one. Pre-pub? Community pricing?

Bruce Dunning

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1024520#Comment_1024520

Wow! Totally missed this one. Pre-pub? Community pricing?

It was a pre-pub offer.