Tagging Suggestions / thoughts in L8 Library
Let me start by saying that I didn't tag my library very much in previous versions. Mostly because I was struggling so hard to just use it as a Bible study software, the last thing I had time for was customizing it beyond collections. Anyway, I usually tagged a resource that I wanted to find easily, because I had such a hard time find my resources in previous versions. Now that we have this fantastic drop down library, (and I'm finding that I'm actually ENJOYING my time in Logos instead of wanting to throw my computer out the window), would you mind sharing some other uses that you would have for tagging? Maybe even share a screenshot? Thanks!
Cynthia
Romans 8:28-38
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Cynthia, I'm so glad that you are enjoying Logos much more than in the past. I think it will only get better!
I've shared this in the past but perhaps I will share it again. This is the tagging system I use. I find it not only good to easily access specific topics in my library but the discipline of going through each resource helps me familiarize myself with it. I especially like being able to tag books I would like to read by specific topics.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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Okay, that's amazing. I'm really blown away!
So, here's my question: Upon quick review, it looks as if about 1/2 or so of what you have in here (I think), Logos now does with the library filter menu (commentaries, books of the bible, language, lexicon, theology tags, etc., etc.) Will you keep tagging like you have in the past, and if so, what would be the benefit?
Cynthia
Romans 8:28-38
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The Filter sidebar uses system metadata for most of what you say. Tags (My Tags) are user metadata which are also used by the Filter. But the Library Filter doesn't replace the use of collections in searches, guides, etc. i.e. where the tags are used to define a dynamic rule for a collection.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Cynthia,
Just curious. What part of Florida are you in? I'm very close to Destin, FL.
I love Logos. Had it for 12 years and still have a lot to learn.
Blessings,
Susan
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Susan W. Murphy said:
Cynthia,
Just curious. What part of Florida are you in? I'm very close to Destin, FL.
I love Logos. Had it for 12 years and still have a lot to learn.
Blessings,
Susan
hello Susan:
I live in a Fort Lauderdale area. I have had logos for about 12 years too, I think!
Cynthia
Romans 8:28-38
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Cynthia in Florida said:
So, here's my question: Upon quick review, it looks as if about 1/2 or so of what you have in here (I think), Logos now does with the library filter menu (commentaries, books of the bible, language, lexicon, theology tags, etc., etc.) Will you keep tagging like you have in the past, and if so, what would be the benefit?
Dave answered your question from the perspective of using collections but I still think tagging every resource has the added benefit of having my own categories which may differ from the sorting Logos uses. Of course when I started to do this Logos didn't have library filters.
I'd be interested to hear what you finally decided to do in the end so please let us know.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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Dave: Thanks for your response. I understand.
Bruce: I actually took your list and edited it down. For now, I decided not to tag categories and instead tag topics. I’m content with Logos’ tag for category/resource type for now.
Thank you both For your help!
Cynthia
Romans 8:28-38
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Cynthia in Florida said:
For now, I decided not to tag categories and instead tag topics.
Edition:eBook lacks system metadata (e.g. Subject) so have used topical tags.
Edition:Logos does not expose Interlinear so use tags
Also use tags for grouping commentaries => Collection rules for sorting commentaries (updated for Logos 8 Base Packages) since tags are quicker for collection cache refresh than complex collection rules.
Another personal tag is Top2 Commentaries (along with a custom series) => https://www.bestcommentaries.com/topcommentaries/ with thread => https://community.logos.com/forums/p/139386/890581.aspx#890581 (shows title modification so sorting search results by title is chronological)
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Bruce Dunning said:
Cynthia, I'm so glad that you are enjoying Logos much more than in the past. I think it will only get better!
I've shared this in the past but perhaps I will share it again. This is the tagging system I use. I find it not only good to easily access specific topics in my library but the discipline of going through each resource helps me familiarize myself with it. I especially like being able to tag books I would like to read by specific topics.
A shout out to Bruce for his work. I used his list with a couple of modifications a few years ago and tagged all my resources. I do this when I add resources.
Also I apply a rating to my books so that I can find any new ones that come down. I simply do a rating:0 to find them. Now that filters are there you might not need that.
Also I keep track of all my other non-Logos books; paper and Kindle, by tagging them. I settled on a library tracking app on my ios devices, called BookBuddy. I can scan in paper books and I export a list of Kindle books into a spreadsheet and then apply the same tags as in Logos. I also export out a spreadsheet of Logos books at the end of the year to add to the database. So I can quickly fine a books and determine where it is; shelf; Logos, Kindle.
Some of us end up being librarians it seems as we manage our libraries.
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Bruce Roth said:
Some of us end up being librarians it seems as we manage our libraries.
Now that made me smile. [:)]
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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Cynthia,
I was hoping you were closer. It's good to see that you're getting a lot of people in your church to use Logos. I'm in a large church but many of the people don't seem to be that interested. I've managed to get one family to buy it and a friend that's using the free version, but that's it. I use Logos just about every day and love it.
When I lived in Birmingham, AL I went to Chattanooga to Kay Arthur's studies and that's how I was introduced to Logos. Lots of people there were using Logos and of course I had to get it.
Blessings, Susan
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Hi Susan:
If you do not mind me asking: Did you ever hear of an inductive topical Bible study? The concept just crossed my mind when reading about your experience with Kay Arthur's studies.
Searching found the following:
https://studyandobey.com/inductive-bible-study/prayer/
Which curious enough was characterized as the following search hit:
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Hamilton Ramos said:
Hi Susan:
If you do not mind me asking: Did you ever hear of an inductive topical Bible study? The concept just crossed my mind when reading about your experience with Kay Arthur's studies.
Searching found the following:
https://studyandobey.com/inductive-bible-study/prayer/
Which curious enough was characterized as the following search hit:
Hello Hamilton:
I'm not Susan, but if you don't mind, I'll chime in on this, since I teach, write, and train leaders in inductive Bible study.
There is such thing as topical inductive Bible study. The "purist" in inductive Bible study would say that the topical study is to be done in the context of the book study. For example, you come across a passage in Ephesians regarding submission, and since you have already studied the background of the book, the recipients, etc., etc., and you know the context of the current passage, you then can do a topical study on biblical submission as related to other areas of Scripture. However, there are also books out there that show how to do a topical study outside of a book study. I tend to not favor this type too much, as I find it more deductive than inductive.
I'm about to walk out the door, but if you would like--when I finally respond to your email I requested (thanks for reaching out to me)--I'll send you some info/resources.
Cynthia
Romans 8:28-38
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Cynthia, although a long-time user, I'm new to Logos 8 (have the Bronze Feature set) and a lot of the aspects of it. Can you clarify what you mean by "drop-down library"?
"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected."- G.K. Chesterton
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Cynthia in Florida said:
However, there are also books out there that show how to do a topical study outside of a book study. I tend to not favor this type too much, as I find it more deductive than inductive.
This is curious, since the NT writers usually did intertextual, diachronical treatment of topics. Take Paul, on Spirit vs Law, Faith, etc. He went all over the place and synthesized it neatly under the Holy Spirit, to give us the most awesome systematic theology treatment to that date.
Cynthia in Florida said:I'm about to walk out the door, but if you would like--when I finally respond to your email I requested (thanks for reaching out to me)--I'll send you some info/resources.
Thanks for the resources / info. If you could direct me to recommended resources in L8, and some web sites to check out, (better if deal with inductive topical).
It is no secret that I am all about topical, systematical, diachronical, intertextual, and theological study of the Bible. And I do it because is the model I see the authorized spokespersons of God (the Apostles) do it.
I understand well that the most important context in the Bible is that of its Author: the Holy Spirit, who can transcend language, historical, ethnical, cultural and other contexts, so He is the one that can lead you to the truth (Jesus Christ and not some group), as He is not bound by any of our contexts.
Feel free to mail as you wish. Thanks ahead of time for the recommendations you can share with us.
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Hi Ben, while she answers you, I think she meant sort by type, which makes it easier to find things:
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Hamilton Ramos said:
Hi Ben, while she answers you, I think she meant sort by type, which makes it easier to find things:
Hello Ben: Hamilton answered your question exactly! Sometimes I know what I mean but I don’t use the correct computer jargon.
Cynthia
Romans 8:28-38
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Hamilton Ramos said:Cynthia in Florida said:
However, there are also books out there that show how to do a topical study outside of a book study. I tend to not favor this type too much, as I find it more deductive than inductive.
This is curious, since the NT writers usually did intertextual, diachronical treatment of topics. Take Paul, on Spirit vs Law, Faith, etc. He went all over the place and synthesized it neatly under the Holy Spirit, to give us the most awesome systematic theology treatment to that date.
Cynthia in Florida said:I'm about to walk out the door, but if you would like--when I finally respond to your email I requested (thanks for reaching out to me)--I'll send you some info/resources.
Thanks for the resources / info. If you could direct me to recommended resources in L8, and some web sites to check out, (better if deal with inductive topical).
It is no secret that I am all about topical, systematical, diachronical, intertextual, and theological study of the Bible. And I do it because is the model I see the authorized spokespersons of God (the Apostles) do it.
I understand well that the most important context in the Bible is that of its Author: the Holy Spirit, who can transcend language, historical, ethnical, cultural and other contexts, so He is the one that can lead you to the truth (Jesus Christ and not some group), as He is not bound by any of our contexts.
Feel free to mail as you wish. Thanks ahead of time for the recommendations you can share with us.
Hello Hamilton:
Thanks for your response. Since this is a discussion I really enjoy but conversely is getting off topic, I’ll go ahead and email you my responses.
Cynthia
Romans 8:28-38
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Ok, thanks Cynthia.
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Cynthia in Florida said:
However, there are also books out there that show how to do a topical study outside of a book study. I tend to not favor this type too much, as I find it more deductive than inductive.
Cynthia in Florida, excuse the logician in me for butting in, especially since I've long since figured out "inductive" doesn't mean "inductive" in this context but deductive logic is where we know that if the statements we start with are true, then our conclusion is true. Inductive logic is where we know that if the statements we start with are true, then our conclusion is probably but not necessarily true. So love your inductive but don't knock my deductive, please [:)]
And if anyone can tell me the historical reason that for a subset of Christians "deductive" came to mean starting with facts outside the Bible and "inductive" was taken to mean starting with facts inside the Bible, I would love to hear it because the term "inductive Bible study" drives me nuts.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:Cynthia in Florida said:
However, there are also books out there that show how to do a topical study outside of a book study. I tend to not favor this type too much, as I find it more deductive than inductive.
Cynthia in Florida, excuse the logician in me for butting in, especially since I've long since figured out "inductive" doesn't mean "inductive" in this context but deductive logic is where we know that if the statements we start with are true, then our conclusion is true. Inductive logic is where we know that if the statements we start with are true, then our conclusion is probably but not necessarily true. So love your inductive but don't knock my deductive, please
And if anyone can tell me the historical reason that for a subset of Christians "deductive" came to mean starting with facts outside the Bible and "inductive" was taken to mean starting with facts inside the Bible, I would love to hear it because the term "inductive Bible study" drives me nuts.
I'll probably get in trouble with MJ, and serious trouble with Cynthia. But 'facts inside the Bible' ... I can't think of a single one, outside mention of geo-places, phys-objects, and historical humans. It's a construct. Even the early fathers saw that.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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scooter said:Denise said:
I can't think of a single one, outside mention of geo-places, phys-objects, and historical humans. It's a construct.
Itsa fact that Jesus died on the cross.
Unfortunately, it's a proposal ... it's why you dislike Ehrman so much. Early believers taught that ....
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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MJ. Smith said:Cynthia in Florida said:
However, there are also books out there that show how to do a topical study outside of a book study. I tend to not favor this type too much, as I find it more deductive than inductive.
Cynthia in Florida, excuse the logician in me for butting in, especially since I've long since figured out "inductive" doesn't mean "inductive" in this context but deductive logic is where we know that if the statements we start with are true, then our conclusion is true. Inductive logic is where we know that if the statements we start with are true, then our conclusion is probably but not necessarily true. So love your inductive but don't knock my deductive, please
And if anyone can tell me the historical reason that for a subset of Christians "deductive" came to mean starting with facts outside the Bible and "inductive" was taken to mean starting with facts inside the Bible, I would love to hear it because the term "inductive Bible study" drives me nuts.
MJ: I wasn't knocking the deductive method. I was speaking about an inductive topical study WITHIN an inductive book study, and I stated that I noticed that often, what is alleged as an inductive topical study within the context of an inductive book study is often not inductive but deductive, which I don't particularly like.
Context my friend...context!
Cynthia
Romans 8:28-38
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Denise said:MJ. Smith said:Cynthia in Florida said:
However, there are also books out there that show how to do a topical study outside of a book study. I tend to not favor this type too much, as I find it more deductive than inductive.
Cynthia in Florida, excuse the logician in me for butting in, especially since I've long since figured out "inductive" doesn't mean "inductive" in this context but deductive logic is where we know that if the statements we start with are true, then our conclusion is true. Inductive logic is where we know that if the statements we start with are true, then our conclusion is probably but not necessarily true. So love your inductive but don't knock my deductive, please
And if anyone can tell me the historical reason that for a subset of Christians "deductive" came to mean starting with facts outside the Bible and "inductive" was taken to mean starting with facts inside the Bible, I would love to hear it because the term "inductive Bible study" drives me nuts.
I'll probably get in trouble with MJ, and serious trouble with Cynthia. But 'facts inside the Bible' ... I can't think of a single one, outside mention of geo-places, phys-objects, and historical humans. It's a construct. Even the early fathers saw that.
Denise: Naahhhh...I'm stupid, but not so stupid as to get into a discussion with you over this. You'd chew me up and spit me out in three seconds flat! LOL
Cynthia
Romans 8:28-38
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Lol this is funny Denise.
I can think of one or two facts:
James 3:1 Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness.
and a related one to the above:
Psalms 116:11 I said in my alarm,All mankind are liars.
If one teaches lies without malicious intent will one be free of charges? How about negligence for not having used due diligence in finding the truth.
Then back at what prompted the recent posts:
I understood "Deductive" meant from the General to the particular, and "Inductive" from the particular to the general.
So for example: inductively I notice in the Bible facts:
No one was baptized in the Bible as per Matthew 28:19;
There are no parallel passages for that formula.
The language used there is of liturgical style, not used ever by Jesus, and
Peter uttered another formula in Acts 2:38, and we know he would not disobey the Master Jesus, and the other Apostles did not raise an objection to the prescribed formula by Peter.
So the inference is that the long formula in Matthew 28:19 is spurious. Inductive study unequivocally takes you to that conclusion.
Now deductively you may take the spurious formula as genuine (wrong presupposition), and try to impose it in the text, then you run in all kind of inconsistencies that you try to explain by ridiculous eiseized explanations.
Deductively you should accept the formula that jibes with the internal evidence in the text. As the particulars validate the premise of the correct formula to be the one prescribed by Peter under the Holy Spirit.
False doctrines will not go un judged in the end. And you cannot say that you just believed what a group or authority figure told you to be right and you did not check on your own.
Different angle for further research, reflection and action, not to polemicize.
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Denise said:
I'll probably get in trouble with MJ, and serious trouble with Cynthia. But 'facts inside the Bible' .
You get in (real) trouble with me?? "Facts" in the context of logic are simply the agreed upon starting point of the logical exploration. i.e. statements that serve as/in propositions that are agreed to be true. I was staying out of epistemology and metaphysics here. Of course, I am influenced by the not-entirely-convincing argument that we cannot determine whether we are "real" or a "computer simulation". [^o)]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Cynthia in Florida said:
MJ: I wasn't knocking the deductive method.
Cynthia in Florida said:Context my friend...context!
Ah, yes, now you've sent me to the semantics of the range of the "I tend to not favor" ... well played [;)]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Hamilton Ramos said:
Deductively you should accept the formula that jibes with the internal evidence in the text.
Only to the extent that you have established the reliability, literalness, and univocality of the text????? Not wanting to enter into a discussion with you, simply pointing out that again you are presenting theological opinion as fact ...
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ: Not to enter in polemics...
Then we go to external evidence. The long formula is only found in Justin Martyr and in the Didache (according to people that study this), and extrabiblical evidence does not make any one doctrine binding.
Then you have the supposedly testimony of Eusebius saying that Atanasious was modifying the Scripture (coincidence that it was when they were battling the Arian heresy?).
Then you have the external evidence of the Hebrew Matthew: supposedly the original gospel, and in which is clearly written: "in my name" (which by the way is the style Jesus would use, and not the liturgical way).
Then we have the witness of the Catholic Church you love so much: in the records we see people being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, until certain time period (you can guess which from the Eusebius note above), in which it was changed to the long formula without a reason given.
Any one that wants to get to the truth of the matter just has to submit to the Holy Spirit, and use the fit aid of reasoning (both inductive and deductive).
An attitude of honoring God's truth should be above any allegiance to traditions, and man made constructs, precisely because God is the One that saves, and not any church.
Should we heed the warning of Christ?
Matthew 24:9 Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name's sake.
Note Jesus said that true sheep would be disliked because of allegiance to His name.
Who is the Savior? who died for us?
John 14:6 Jesus said to him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Peter knew that and accordingly under the Holy Spirit uttered Acts 2:38.
Simple and direct prerequisite to enter the New Covenant.
John 10:2 But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 To him the gatekeeper opens. The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. 5 A stranger they will not follow, but they will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.
What is the theological implication of the passage above? We are to listen to the good Shepherd not to strangers with man made theological constructs.
Living Torah is Jesus Christ, not any group of persons on Earth. Jesus was tested that way: was He to submit to His Father or to a religious tradition of His time (far from God and the weightier matters of the Law)?
Are we not to be Christlike? if so, we may be facing the same challenge, is our heart for God and His prescribed way for entering the New Covenant Acts 2:38, or are we to follow a man made construct (spurious long formula) that in real life is pushing an occult ungodly agenda?
Rationality is a gift given to us by God, it is a fit aid to the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Truth is not hard to find if we submit to God and His Holy Spirit.
But an attitude of true inductive and detached from previous understandings is needed to let the Scriptures talk to us. Internal and external evidence cannot be denied. As we say in our country: "You cannot shield the sun with the thumb" meaning faulty inductive and deductive reasoning cannot be used to support a bogus doctrine based on a spurious text.
God's truth is shining brighter than the sun with all the internal and external evidence available to us.
Kind regards.
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Cynthia:
The S word is a little strong. You are uninformed which is different...
http://www.triviumpursuit.com/articles/inductive_and_deductive_bible_studies.php
Blessings.
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Hamilton Ramos said:
Cynthia:
The S word is a little strong. You are uninformed which is different...
http://www.triviumpursuit.com/articles/inductive_and_deductive_bible_studies.php
Blessings.
Hamilton: it’s in jest my friend.
And so, about tagging... anyone have any other methods of tagging, I’d love to hear them. Please?! ANYONE?
Cynthia
Romans 8:28-38
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Hamilton Ramos said:
Cynthia:
The S word is a little strong. You are uninformed which is different...
http://www.triviumpursuit.com/articles/inductive_and_deductive_bible_studies.php
Blessings.
Hamilton, in our neck of the woods, we're all stupid, but never uninformed (an insult). In the grand pecking order of life, introducing someone to the joys of the Diety is at the top ... what Cynthia excels at.
As regards tagging, I combine tagging (every single volume) with altering the titles to achieve sorts I prefer. FL, however, is now disregarding user titles (web/mobile) and I've been disregarding FL.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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MJ. Smith said:Cynthia in Florida said:
However, there are also books out there that show how to do a topical study outside of a book study. I tend to not favor this type too much, as I find it more deductive than inductive.
Cynthia in Florida, excuse the logician in me for butting in, especially since I've long since figured out "inductive" doesn't mean "inductive" in this context but deductive logic is where we know that if the statements we start with are true, then our conclusion is true. Inductive logic is where we know that if the statements we start with are true, then our conclusion is probably but not necessarily true. So love your inductive but don't knock my deductive, please
And if anyone can tell me the historical reason that for a subset of Christians "deductive" came to mean starting with facts outside the Bible and "inductive" was taken to mean starting with facts inside the Bible, I would love to hear it because the term "inductive Bible study" drives me nuts.
In mathematics (my secular training) inductive does not mean that something is probably, but not necessarily true. It means that you show that (1) the proposition is true for some number and (2) demonstrate that if it is true for a variable n, then it is also true for n+1. So you start from the specific example and then show that the example implies the whole.
I think the terminology "inductive Bible study" may come from that sense, where you begin with a specific example and see if that principle carries over to other texts (working up), while deductive begins with axioms (whether the categories of systematics, creeds or whatever) and then work down. In real life, of course, we always do both intermingled. Like in math, induction refers to a specific technique, but really depends on the insight of the other approach.
Using Logos as a pastor, seminary professor, and Tyndale author
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Cynthia,
Getting back to tagging:
I have tagged all my books. I did much of the tagging before FL expanded their "types" on certain resources such as Systematic Theologies etc. I use an abbreviated list from the one that Bruce provided. I combine tags and ratings to create collections of books that I want to populate for various categories such as background and exegesis. The formula is: tag:exegesis AND rating >2... or whatever I decide. This allows me to filter to those resources I find most useful. I can still run a search on the tag to get all the books in that category if I want. I find it helpful to target my guides and search so as to not get overwhelmed. You can create similar collections using the "type" of resource provided by FL.
Another advantage to tagging all my resources is when new books arrive, especially those temporary ones with FL Connect, I can identify them because they are the ones not tagged. I do not tag any books that will be expiring the next month.
Whatever system you decide to use, you are well on your way to getting targeted results from your guides and searches.
I truly respect your calling to teach God's Word... keep it up.
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John Fidel said:
I do not tag any books that will be expiring the next month.
This is a good point to mention. I too don't tag any temporary resources. I have done this in the past but regretted after I purchased it at at later time but forgot I had previously tagged the. Then I think that the resource didn't download when I check to see what resources have not been tagged. So I just make it my rule not to tag books that I don't own.
Another example of this is previously tagging resources as "cloud" when that was offered for a while but later they don't show up as untagged when I decided to purchase them.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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Denise said:
In the grand pecking order of life, introducing someone to the joys of the Diety is at the top ... what Cynthia excels at.
Denise: I trust you know, from our years of conversing, how much respect I have for you. Therefore, this truly touches my heart. I’m humbled and honored. Thank you!
Cynthia
Romans 8:28-38
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John Fidel said:
Cynthia,
Getting back to tagging:
I have tagged all my books. I did much of the tagging before FL expanded their "types" on certain resources such as Systematic Theologies etc. I use an abbreviated list from the one that Bruce provided. I combine tags and ratings to create collections of books that I want to populate for various categories such as background and exegesis. The formula is: tag:exegesis AND rating >2... or whatever I decide. This allows me to filter to those resources I find most useful. I can still run a search on the tag to get all the books in that category if I want. I find it helpful to target my guides and search so as to not get overwhelmed. You can create similar collections using the "type" of resource provided by FL.
Another advantage to tagging all my resources is when new books arrive, especially those temporary ones with FL Connect, I can identify them because they are the ones not tagged. I do not tag any books that will be expiring the next month.
Whatever system you decide to use, you are well on your way to getting targeted results from your guides and searches.
I truly respect your calling to teach God's Word... keep it up.
Hello John: First, thank you for your kind words. Secondly, I am incredibly interested in your system as mentioned above. It’s a little fuzzy for me, but I think I understand it. Any chance you could show me a few screen shots? I m particularly interested in it’s ability to “help target my guides and searches so as to not get overwhelmed...”.
Thanks in advance!
Cynthia
Romans 8:28-38
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Hi Cynthia,
Here is a post from 2016 that links to a pdf I created that describes the process. Mine system is more elaborate, but I think you will get the idea. If you have more questions I will be at a computer that has Logos on it later this evening and can post some screen shots using L8.
https://community.logos.com/forums/t/101279.aspx
Once your have your monographs tagged and/or in collections, you then add those collections to a Passage Guide and Topic Guide so they can be utilized to provide you information from those collections based on your pericope or topic you are studying.
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Sorry Cynthia for not catching that. Now with political correctness some words are better treated with caution.
Tagging is a lot of work for those that grew a library without properly tagging as resources were added.
I wish there was an easier way to do it.
At one time I thought of tagging all resources that had "subject or thematic" index, so I could search in them terms to get ideas by the other entries in the index near the term, but that proved hard due to the amount of books and the different subjects.
Then the Logos pro team had a list of preferred resources they always go to, and that was another good idea. I did try to add some of my preferred resources to the ones they listed, but without a rule, it is hard to maintain the collection.
The use you want to give to your L8 library will influence the tagging.
John Fallahee (learnlogos) has an interesting webinar for students of seminary. He advises to have crystal clear understanding of certain topics for proper preparedness for ministry so to speak:
There are probably more. I do not tag. I just put in the rule box the word and search in the collection. Example I write "counseling" in the rule box and then look for the particular topic. Not very scientific but adequate for my needs.
Hope this sparks some ideas for you.
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Denise:
I was at no time implying that uninformed meant in all generally.
Because of the posting Cynthia did I also thought she had not clear the relation of Deductive and inductive, and particularly topical inductive.
I might have misperceived the situation. If you see I was very particular to the article I cited for her to explore and communicate in a manner we would all understand due to the common meaning derived from what was articulated there.
By coincidence it has the dog you so much cherish that MJ pulls out at times. (pure coincidence).
So no offense intended, and I was just shocked to read the S word in Cynthia's post (remember L1 of mine is not En).
"joys of Diety"... I assume is a typo, since I did not find it as an idiomatic expression.
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Justin Gatlin said:
In mathematics (my secular training) inductive does not mean that something is probably, but not necessarily true. It means that you show that (1) the proposition is true for some number and (2) demonstrate that if it is true for a variable n, then it is also true for n+1. So you start from the specific example and then show that the example implies the whole.
Note that you used the word "implies" rather than "proves" which is exactly my point.
From the Minnesota State math department:
Yes, I am aware that mathematics extends the meaning of inductive logic ... but that is generally beyond the math I have taken. "well-founded relations induction" is the only extension I can even recall a name for.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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One practice I have is to tag every book I finish with 2 separate tags. 1. Completed 2. the year I read it.
This enables me to find a particular thought or phrase in any book I've read. And enables me to see what books I've read each year.
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John Fidel said:
Hi Cynthia,
Here is a post from 2016 that links to a pdf I created that describes the process. Mine system is more elaborate, but I think you will get the idea. If you have more questions I will be at a computer that has Logos on it later this evening and can post some screen shots using L8.
https://community.logos.com/forums/t/101279.aspx
Once your have your monographs tagged and/or in collections, you then add those collections to a Passage Guide and Topic Guide so they can be utilized to provide you information from those collections based on your pericope or topic you are studying.
Hello John: So I went through this and as it currently applies to my set up, I’ve already done that. (without tagged resources, of course). I think, perhaps, that because I was always so flustered with L7, I never really got around to utilizing the customizations of the PG and TG. This is something I definitely want to spend more time on now. I realize it will take a while, but I’ll get going on it and perhaps by the time I’m 80, it will be finished! LOL
Thanks again for your help.
Cynthia
Romans 8:28-38
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MJ. Smith said:
Note that you used the word "implies" rather than "proves" which is exactly my point.
From the Minnesota State math department
Yes, I am aware that mathematics extends the meaning of inductive logic ... but that is generally beyond the math I have taken. "well-founded relations induction" is the only extension I can even recall a name for.
Apologies to Cynthia for derailing this thread. I just want to defend "inductive Bible study" as a legitimate term.
I was not using the word implies in the loose sense of "suggests." Mathematical induction is a formal method of proof that shows that if the base case is true, all forms will be true. Once you show the base case is true, all others must also be true. My point is quite narrowly that your misgivings about the terminology "inductive Bible study" are not entirely well-founded. The idea of forming a hypothesis from a pattern (your use of the term), then taking a specific example, and extending it by careful argument is not an unprecedented use of the term. Inductive proofs are kind of complicated by the nature of the case, but here is an example I found a graphic for (albeit with some unfortunate typos, the math is valid):
On the subject of tagging the 17k resources in my library, the thought overwhelms me. I like the models given in this thread, but I especially like the ability to pull up all the books with no tags in the new library, so I can work my way through methodically, without feeling like I need to complete it all right now.
Using Logos as a pastor, seminary professor, and Tyndale author
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Justin Gatlin said:MJ. Smith said:
Note that you used the word "implies" rather than "proves" which is exactly my point.
From the Minnesota State math department
Yes, I am aware that mathematics extends the meaning of inductive logic ... but that is generally beyond the math I have taken. "well-founded relations induction" is the only extension I can even recall a name for.
Apologies to Cynthia for derailing this thread. I just want to defend "inductive Bible study" as a legitimate term.
I was not using the word implies in the loose sense of "suggests." Mathematical induction is a formal method of proof that shows that if the base case is true, all forms will be true. Once you show the base case is true, all others must also be true. My point is quite narrowly that your misgivings about the terminology "inductive Bible study" are not entirely well-founded. The idea of forming a hypothesis from a pattern (your use of the term), then taking a specific example, and extending it by careful argument is not an unprecedented use of the term. Inductive proofs are kind of complicated by the nature of the case, but here is an example I found a graphic for (albeit with some unfortunate typos, the math is valid):On the subject of tagging the 17k resources in my library, the thought overwhelms me. I like the models given in this thread, but I especially like the ability to pull up all the books with no tags in the new library, so I can work my way through methodically, without feeling like I need to complete it all right now.
Hello Justin: (and others)
I have been trying to stay out of this discussion because the minute you start bringing in examples like this, sadly, I have no response. I stink at math. I mean...I STINK at math, so what I'm seeing above makes no sense to me. Nevertheless, I do know that as a former home school parent, a popular approach to home schooling is called "The Trivium" which is a classical education based on the grammar stage, the dialectic (logic) stage, and the rhetoric stage. Below is a snippet from the Trivium Pursuit website that, from my time of study and teaching, I have always understood to be true:
"Methods of Reasoning Compared to Methods of Studying
A method is a regular way or manner of proceeding with or of accomplishing something. We must make a distinction between a method of reasoning to conclusions, and a method for studying a book or a subject.
For example, consider the inductive and deductive methods for studying a language:
Deductive language learning involves memorizing the various parts and categories of a foreign language and learning how to fit it all together and to us it. In other words, it begins with certain accepted principles of the language, then deduces the language as a whole from the correct combination of the parts and principles.
Inductive language learning involves reading passages in a foreign language, then picking it apart and learning what the parts mean. In other words, it begins with the language as a whole properly connected in all of its parts and principles, then figures out certain parts and principles of the language.
As you can see, we aren't actually talking about a method of reasoning so much as we are talking about a method of approaching a subject.
In the deductive method of study, we take for granted the work which others before us have done in identifying and categorizing various parts and their relationships of language (or any other subject), and we use this to develop our understanding of the whole system and to generate true examples of the language (or any other subject).
In the inductive method of study, what was taken for granted in the deductive method is here our primary work. We move from the given true examples of the language (or any other subject) and we break it down into its parts and relationships and thereby develop our understanding of the whole system
In actual practice, though any one method of study may be characteristically deductive or inductive, nevertheless nothing is purely deductive, and nothing is purely inductive, but they are actually used to serve each other." (Emphasis mine)
You can read the entire article, which speaks about the connection between deductive and inductive reasoning and the deductive and inductive method of Bible study, here at http://www.triviumpursuit.com/articles/inductive_and_deductive_bible_studies.php
Justin: Okay, I have about 5600 resources and I thought that to be a massive undertaking. I don't know that I would even consider tagging 17,000 resources! If anyone knows a way to tag resources in groups that might make it go faster for me, please share.
Cynthia
Romans 8:28-38
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Talking out loud here...
I actually found out how to tag resources in groups, but I would love to hear your process on how you go about tagging. In other words, I'm not asking for WHAT you tag, or even tag titles, but what is your process. Do you search through a filter and then tag those in groups, do you open each individual title and tag that title? What is your actual PROCESS for tagging? Thanks in advance.
Cynthia
Romans 8:28-38
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Cynthia in Florida said:
Talking out loud here...
I actually found out how to tag resources in groups, but I would love to hear your process on how you go about tagging. In other words, I'm not asking for WHAT you tag, or even tag titles, but what is your process. Do you search through a filter and then tag those in groups, do you open each individual title and tag that title? What is your actual PROCESS for tagging? Thanks in advance.
Presuming a group of books, I first tag them all as 'New' so I don't loose them in the process.
Then I apply global tags (eg which platform has the resource)
Then one by one, I go down the filtered 'new' list, tag and edit the titles for easier use.
Finally, I remove the 'new' tag. At which point they all swim away, to say hello to all their friends (typically mixed with updates, etc).
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Justin Gatlin said:
I was not using the word implies in the loose sense of "suggests." Mathematical induction is a formal method of proof that shows that if the base case is true, all forms will be true. Once you show the base case is true, all others must also be true. My point is quite narrowly that your misgivings about the terminology "inductive Bible study" are not entirely well-founded. The idea of forming a hypothesis from a pattern (your use of the term), then taking a specific example, and extending it by careful argument is not an unprecedented use of the term. Inductive proofs are kind of complicated by the nature of the case, but here is an example I found a graphic for (albeit with some unfortunate typos, the math is valid):
You still aren't quite understanding my position. If you're familiar with the development of the inductive method, it was developed out of a distrust of the deductive method. This distrust was based on the perception that the deductive method was based outside the text while the inductive method could be based inside the text. This reasoning was hogwash ... which I recognize because I have bottle fed several runts from sows' litters. Whether the initial propositions come from the text or from outside the text is a question completely independent of whether one applies inductive or deductive logic to the propositions. The difference in the types of logic is the certainty of the conclusion.
I am comfortable applying mathematical induction in the fields of model verification and natural language processing. However, my Coursera instructor for Mathematical logic, a Stanford professor math professor, insisted on the distinction I have made. You are correct that the term "mathematical induction" is not the same as inductive logic. In my experience, narrow as it is, mathematical induction re: natural numbers utilizes deductive logic. But my point is regarding Bible study and is in response to statements such as the following which misrepresent the application of the two types of logic:
[quote]"Deductive Bible study, then, is simply taking a general statement and then going to Scripture to find details that support (or disprove) it. Inductive Bible study does the opposite. It starts with the details of Scripture and then builds a general or universal statement based on those details. . . .A weakness of the deductive method of Bible study has already been mentioned: if we start with a false premise, then we will not arrive at a proper conclusion." [Note bad premises ruin any logic]
or
[quote]"Let me explain. A "deductive" Bible study begins from a point that the teacher is trying to make, and then uses a number of scripture verses and examples to support that conclusion. Most sermons and Bible studies are conducted this way. Our JesusWalk study is an example of this.
An "inductive" Bible study, on the other hand begins with the raw text of scripture, and encourages participants to read the text and draw conclusions directly from the text itself says. This is an important learning method that uses questions to elicit thought and learning. It also trains people to study the Bible better, since it teaches them to ask questions which help them understand what is going on, what is being said, and how that relates to the rest of the passage."[Note that "begins from a point" should be "begins from a point agreed to be true based on a previous study"]
or from one I find especially annoying and ill-informed:
I will grant that synthetic theological bible studies tend to be more deductive and that literary bible studies, for example, tend to be more inductive.
or from a source I agree with:
[quote]"A Comparison of Inductive and Deductive Methods of Reasoning
The deductive method of reasoning moves toward necessary conclusions derived from correct connections between premises premises which are all either given or assumed to be true.
The inductive method of reasoning moves toward possible conclusions derived from hypothetical connections between premises (observations) which are selected from among all possible true premises (observations).
Ideally, the deductive method of reasoning is objective in its conclusions (the conclusions are necessarily true), but subjective in its premises (the premises are assumed to be true).
Ideally, the inductive method of reasoning is subjective in its conclusions (the conclusions are not necessarily true), but objective in its premises (the premises are observed to be true)."
MY STRONGLY HELD OPINION
In Bible study, as in all study, we use all our reasoning tools - fallacy identification, deductive logic, inductive logic, abductive logic (rarely but atheists tend to overuse), informal logic, conductive logic - picking the appropriate tool for the set of propositions we have accumulated. Yes, I am a big fan of dialogic logic and consider it a very interesting approach to Bible study.
P.S. The rise of presuppositional apologetics has made me even more convinced that Christians need to be careful with their use of logical language. And no, I don't object to presuppositional apologetics as a term; I am simply concerned that people know precisely what they mean by the term.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Denise said:Cynthia in Florida said:
Talking out loud here...
I actually found out how to tag resources in groups, but I would love to hear your process on how you go about tagging. In other words, I'm not asking for WHAT you tag, or even tag titles, but what is your process. Do you search through a filter and then tag those in groups, do you open each individual title and tag that title? What is your actual PROCESS for tagging? Thanks in advance.
Presuming a group of books, I first tag them all as 'New' so I don't loose them in the process.
Then I apply global tags (eg which platform has the resource)
Then one by one, I go down the filtered 'new' list, tag and edit the titles for easier use.
Finally, I remove the 'new' tag. At which point they all swim away, to say hello to all their friends (typically mixed with updates, etc).
Denise! Brilliant! This is very helpful. THANK YOU!
Cynthia
Romans 8:28-38
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