Logos 7 Notes Functionality Is Coming Be Patient
Writing this because I've seen a few complain about how the new notes is far behind the Logos 7 version of notes. Here's the explanation I'd give.
Imagine you are building a new house and it's taking longer than expected to finish. You notice that the master bedroom, living and kitchen all look nice and the bathroom works. The awesome new luxury bathtub with huge TV and sound system hasn't been installed yet, but that nice shower is there and one of the two dual vanity sinks is installed. The furniture hasn't all been moved in, but you do have a couch and living room TV. There's a lot of work left, but the builder said, "I can work around you so here's the key. Move on in."
The guy will have it all done soon, but it will mean a little growing pains. You have a choice., Move on in or stay put till it's more complete.
Logos has all the great features coming but the new house is much better than old in terms of structure and bones. The amenities are not as nice in some areas, but better than in other areas. So be patient.
Dr. Kevin Purcell, Director of Missions
Brushy Mountain Baptist Association
Comments
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Kevin A. Purcell said:
So be patient.
I have no choice. But, FL had a choice. They put out a partly finished product, + a list of ''we're gonnas.'' That's instead of, in bulk, finishing Notes.
That is unprofessional.
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Why don’t you have a choice. You can stay with he old system if you like. It still works I think.
Dr. Kevin Purcell, Director of Missions
Brushy Mountain Baptist Association0 -
Kevin A. Purcell said:
Why don’t you have a choice. You can stay with he old system if you like. It still works I think.
Exactly. They were professional BECAUSE they left the old system in place, as well as made it VERY clear the new system lacked some of the old functions, so that people could keep their current workflows. And nobody was forced to upgrade to L8. People had the freedom to stay on L7 as well. I have never understood the attacks on FL with regard to this issue.
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scooter said:Kevin A. Purcell said:
So be patient.
I have no choice. But, FL had a choice. They put out a partly finished product, + a list of ''we're gonnas.'' That's instead of, in bulk, finishing Notes.
That is unprofessional.
Be patient. It will all be ready by Logos 9, and then you can pay for it again.
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Why don’t you just use the old system Scooter? It’s there. They could have removed it. They left it in for people like you who can’t imagine not having all the features. it will give you a peace that surpasses all understanding friend.
Dr. Kevin Purcell, Director of Missions
Brushy Mountain Baptist Association0 -
Kevin A. Purcell said:
Why don’t you just use the old system Scooter? It’s there. They could have removed it. They left it in for people like you who can’t imagine not having all the features. it will give you a peace that surpasses all understanding friend.
I think the reason people who have Logos 8 don't use the Logos 7 notes is because of all the dire warnings about conflicts if you go back and forth (especially if you are using notes on mobile as well as desktop).
Personally, I prefer Logos 8 notes because I use tagging extensively.
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hi LOGOS.
I'm really stumped since losing the Logos 7 notes functionality, in my work in several contexts.
Is it correct it is inadviseable to try switching back and forth because of compatibility issues. my logos is too valuable to my work to risk losing it, so now seems I'm stuck and cannot use the resources I've made or the systems developed over 15 years, and It's difficult to find work arounds without losing so much time. I used Logos notes a lot.I would love to know a safe way of reverting to Logos 7 notes, if there is one?
Surely we can sensibly ansd responsbly expect LOGOS to work FLAT OUT resolve and update the problems caused by the part completed upgrade to the NOTES? ... to get people like myself out of the mess? ? Does anyone know if there is an expected DATE for completing the upgrade?
Michael
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Even if you go back, it's temporary. Bradley says the future is here. I'd assume your best bet is to plead for specific 7-features?
I stayed on 7 - a vision with writing on the wall.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Denise said:
Even if you go back, it's temporary. Bradley says the future is here. I'd assume your best bet is to plead for specific 7-features?
I stayed on 7 - a vision with writing on the wall.
The same complaint over and over.... They have already given a list of what 7 features are coming back and which are not.
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David Taylor Jr said:Denise said:
Even if you go back, it's temporary. Bradley says the future is here. I'd assume your best bet is to plead for specific 7-features?
I stayed on 7 - a vision with writing on the wall.
The same complaint over and over.... They have already given a list of what 7 features are coming back and which are not.
Which means nothing ... are you new? They general alter course over time ... usualy 3-4 years.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Denise said:David Taylor Jr said:Denise said:
Even if you go back, it's temporary. Bradley says the future is here. I'd assume your best bet is to plead for specific 7-features?
I stayed on 7 - a vision with writing on the wall.
The same complaint over and over.... They have already given a list of what 7 features are coming back and which are not.
Which means nothing ... are you new? They general alter course over time ... usualy 3-4 years.
No not new. Been a Logos user for years. But I often see the same people complaining every time a release is made. It gets old.
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I'm new to the Forums ( but been a logos user for ages) but cannot grasp how this can happen,..such a loss of functionality!.. Itr must be an oversight, I',m sure logos are not aware how edxtensively some users use the program and what can be done with it otherwise these isseus would have been guarded against before being allowed to happen?
I complained/requested a change to the note files split view which was lost after libronix went to logos, the change then actually came about quite quickly ...when it was finally made a priority by logos..??
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Michael Perry said:
such a loss of functionality!.. Itr must be an oversight
What functionality are you referring to in particular?
We've been assured that feature parity with L7 notes is a high priority right now.
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David Taylor Jr said:
No not new. Been a Logos user for years. But I often see the same people complaining every time a release is made. It gets old.
Get used to it, Dave. With a song and a dance and a flip of the cane, FL sells an unfinished project, again.
Ever watch those old clips of Fred Astaire? That is what FL should aspire to. An excellent finished product, all the fumbling fixed in rehearsals.
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hi Rebuen
thanks for the reply and question
Logos 7 functionality:
seperate NOTE FILES as independant resources, with with a user created title
1/ can drag a note file to the FAVOURITES menu - where it will shows its user created title in the favourites menU,which can be draghged around to different locations in the favourites menu, so can build up a user created tree of note file titles in order, and inset etc as sub folders etc
2/ and can open that note file by dragging from the favourites menu or clicking
3/ can ADD A NOTE Specifically to any open independant note file after highlighting resource and right clicking text- all open note files we be listed as options in the box ( no need to do anything else like seperate tagging... then can right clikc and highlight to one note or another , quickly while reading text
the highlight will repeat the formerly chosen highlight method- for example if red unline is being selected, then it will repeat automatically the next time unless changed
4/ NOTE FILE TITLES will show up in tabs in windows, so can leave many note files open as seperate resourices and can tell across the windows tab which is which
... for starters!...
thanks again
Michael
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Why should any of us get used to complaints?
There are things in every release that we can be thankful for.
Let's count ourselves as fortunate.
Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!
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Michael Perry said:
seperate NOTE FILES as independant resources, with with a user created title
1/ can drag a note file to the FAVOURITES menu - where it will shows its user created title in the favourites menU,which can be draghged around to different locations in the favourites menu, so can build up a user created tree of note file titles in order, and inset etc as sub folders etc
2/ and can open that note file by dragging from the favourites menu or clicking
This is being implemented somewhat differently in Logos 8
8.2 beta 1 had:
New Features
- Notes Tool
- Added support to allow old Notes links (i.e., saved positions, history, favorites, etc.) to work with notebooks.
I think - but can't test at the moment as not at my beta install computer - that this gives the ability to drag instances of the Notes Tool with a notebook selected to the Favorites folder and for the name of the notebook to be shown there. (We could previously drag the Notes Tool there but the notebook name wouldn't be shown)
Then clicking that entry in Favorites would open the Notes Tool with that notebook selected - so it's not just opening that notebook but opening the Notes Tool with a focus on that notebook.
Michael Perry said:3/ can ADD A NOTE Specifically to any open independant note file after highlighting resource and right clicking text- all open note files we be listed as options in the box ( no need to do anything else like seperate tagging... then can right clikc and highlight to one note or another , quickly while reading text
I haven't seen any change in this yet - you can't specify the notebook in the context menu, the last selected is used (I think but there was some discussion on this previously and I forget the details)
Michael Perry said:4/ NOTE FILE TITLES will show up in tabs in windows, so can leave many note files open as seperate resourices and can tell across the windows tab which is which
From what Adam says at https://community.logos.com/forums/p/176832/1027818.aspx#1027818 this should be coming at some stage
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PetahChristian said:
Why should any of us get used to complaints?
There are things in every release that we can be thankful for.
Let's count ourselves as fortunate.
I believe FL owners count on our Christian-ish niceness to lesson the concerns raised.
My L8 money was good. Notes is missing much. I wanted something I could learn, because it was [mostly] stable and finished. For me, learning something like notes is an immense undertaking. Having to tackle something so unfinished, so changeable is horrible.
The 16 ''gonnas'' should have, in bulk, been already installed + operable.
I cannot switch, as FL has the books I study. Thus, I am trapped. Angry? No: disgusted.
U know how we are told to talk ''it'' out? Here I am, so talking. Getting chided, too. I have no need to be chided. FL needs to be chided, to look in the mirror, + plain + simple do a better job of putting out a product, where far, far less is completed on the backs of the customers.
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scooter said:
U know how we are told to talk ''it'' out? Here I am, so talking. Getting chided, too. I have no need to be chided. FL needs to be chided, to look in the mirror, + plain + simple do a better job of putting out a product, where far, far less is completed on the backs of the customers.
There is a difference between making an issue known and whining. It is the latter that I get fed up with. It is fine and reasonable to make a complaint. But when people start griping over the same thing over and over, then accusing FL of bad motives or "counting on our Christian-ish niceness to lessen the concerns raised" then that is not longer complaining about features or making issues known. To me, that is something entirely different that has no place here or anywhere in a Christian's life.
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scooter said:
Getting chided, too.
By me? I hope not (although I'm sorry if it came across that way). It would be silly for me to complain about someone else's complaints, wouldn't it?
scooter said:I believe FL owners count on our Christian-ish niceness to lesson the concerns raised.
It's difficult for me to imagine that FL would take advantage of their customers (in any way).
scooter said:I cannot switch, as FL has the books I study.
Perhaps, in this scenario, the grass only looks greener, but another program/business might also disappoint?
I'd also hate to see you switch, and leave our community.
scooter said:to look in the mirror, + plain + simple do a better job of putting out a product
Software, by its nature, isn't ever finished. We'd never be able to ship it, because making it better is never-ending.
Even if we wrote a program to meet our needs, others aren't going be satisfied with it because they have different needs and expectations.
It's not fair of us to hold someone to a standard that we can't attain, to expect someone else to deliver something that we couldn't deliver.
None of us measure up, and none of us can measure up. Thankfully God sees the righteousness of Jesus Christ.
How blessed we are, that the One who created us, can redeem us and deliver us, can refine us and perfect us. Glory to God!
Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!
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David Taylor Jr said:
... counting on our Christian-ish niceness to lessen the concerns raised" then that is not longer complaining about features or making issues known. To me, that is something entirely different that has no place here or anywhere in a Christian's life.
David, lowered behavioral expectations for Christians is fairly well known. Sufficient to merit discussion in our church. It's also discussed in our community (about visiting Christian groups' behavior). And of couse, the present politics hasn't helped ... sin's ok as long as you're not a pastor.
Personally, I find the tremendous support for Logos software curious. I didn't see that at Bibleworks or Accordance. Logos folks really can't abide criticizing it ... almost sacred, if you sit back and watch the behaviors.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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David Taylor Jr said:
griping over the same thing over and over
I keep hoping senior FL people will listen, then improve things. Some people / organizations improve when told once or twice. Not these folks. They need to be repeatedly reminded to do better, because they never arrive at smoothness.
I am trying to get thru to FL's meta-level, where senior people make wholesale changes, that trickle down into a quality product, rather than ask for a certain thing on the rig to be improved. This is a long hard haul; I do not believe FL is listening. You might say that is because I whine too much, an opinion you are free to have.
I volunteered twice on the forums to test what FL produces, as someone who knows little, and needs excellent instructions to move forward with the program. If it works for me, any one can use it. FL never asked me to so do. I would not do this today, for various reasons.
Regarding whining: I believe this is what you are doing. FL, as a business, does not need your protection. They need to be quality, so they can produce quality.
Thus, I will not stay quiet. FL did not have to come back to me, saying your credit card bounced. To a degree, their product bounces.
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David Taylor Jr said:scooter said:
U know how we are told to talk ''it'' out? Here I am, so talking. Getting chided, too. I have no need to be chided. FL needs to be chided, to look in the mirror, + plain + simple do a better job of putting out a product, where far, far less is completed on the backs of the customers.
There is a difference between making an issue known and whining. It is the latter that I get fed up with. It is fine and reasonable to make a complaint. But when people start griping over the same thing over and over, then accusing FL of bad motives or "counting on our Christian-ish niceness to lessen the concerns raised" then that is not longer complaining about features or making issues known. To me, that is something entirely different that has no place here or anywhere in a Christian's life.
Normally I tend to agree with you David. However, I'm a little bit more empathetic to people on the issue of the Logos 8 release. Now to be fair, Logos did warn people via email and in the forum about changes and missing functionality of the notes tool. However, they still communicated it in a more marketing oriented tone than an informative/disclaimer tone, and they did it right before the big release (like the weekend before). I just don't think people could conceive of Faithlife releasing such an unfinished product and how much of an impact that would be to their daily workflow.
I actually like a lot of the new notes features, and since I didn't use notes as extensively as some, I'm not hurting the way some are. So I'm being more patient with the people that are being impatient because I can understand how drastic changes to the tools you use to do your work can hurt. People who use lectionaries and lectionary layouts for their regular work are also hurting right now. The home page still leaves much to be desired and I'm not seeing a ton of movement on that when I look at the beta release notes.
I started out with Logos 6 after it had been out almost a year. I upgraded to Logos 7 two months after its initial release (and I had Logos 6 with Logos Now so there wasn't a huge change for me). Logos 8 is the first time I upgraded pretty much immediately and it was extremely painful waiting for 8.1. So I can imagine how painful it must be for people who've been using Logos even longer. The sad thing is there are a lot of great new features in Logos 8 that have been overshadowed and obscured because of the massively unfinished nature of the release. People shouldn't have to wait so long to have a fully functional product after they've PAID for a supposed UPGRADE. People don't expect to LOSE functionality with an upgrade.
So although I'm not a fan of the constant griping about the same issues over and over in the forums, I'm more sympathetic to it in this case because Faithlife kind of deserves it. Maybe they'll make the sure the next major release is fully developed. They're essentially still releasing Logos 8 piecemeal and people are right to be unhappy about that.
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Denise said:
Logos folks really can't abide criticizing it
The software is far from perfect (but I am also grateful for it).
If you mean customers rather than employees, I think all of us have feature requests and bug fixes we'd like to see implemented.
Hopefully we all can do that in a civil and gracious manner, without finding fault with the company or its employees.
Even though I haven't used another program, I generally wouldn't want the people who made Bibleworks or Accordance to be criticized, either.
Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!
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hi Graham
thanks for your reply. if the notes file could be draggged to the favourites menu with its unique NOTE FILE TITLE which could be read in the favourites menu, and then when clicked not just open the notes tool but open the actual TITLED NOTE FILE - then the power of titles as entities independant to the notes tool woudl be restored...?
best wishes
Michael
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PetahChristian said:
without finding fault with the company or its employees.
Then where does the buck stop?? The Connect fiasco should have told the owners to get things right, next time [within the bounds of human error]. Yet, 8 was let out of the gate too early.
8 is not an oopsie. I simply have to believe the owner[s] said let 'er rip. How else did it come into buy-me existence woefully under eventuated?
So, yes, I find fault with the owners of the company. + not employees below V-P. U do not like ''fault''; try ''responsibility.''
They shirked it, those senior folks. I'm tryna wake them up. Really, they are awake. 8gate occurred with full conscious knowledge of the owners.
Silence is often seen as acquiescence. I speak up.
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scooter said:PetahChristian said:
without finding fault with the company or its employees.
Then where does the buck stop?? The Connect fiasco should have told the owners to get things right, next time [within the bounds of human error]. Yet, 8 was let out of the gate too early.
8 is not an oopsie. I simply have to believe the owner
said let 'er rip. How else did it come into buy-me existence woefully under eventuated?So, yes, I find fault with the owners of the company. + not employees below V-P. U do not like ''fault''; try ''responsibility.''
They shirked it, those senior folks. I'm tryna wake them up. Really, they are awake. 8gate occurred with full conscious knowledge of the owners.
Silence is often seen as acquiescence. I speak up.
Why not contact them directly? They will talk to you. You can email Bob, you can call and ask for Bob. They do respond.
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scooter said:
FL, as a business, does not need your protection.
Agreed. I think people sometimes forget that Faithlife is a for-profit enterprise and not just the IT guy at your church trying to make things better. This is their business. We pay them for their products, and their products are not cheap by any stretch of the imagination. If feel like people have lower standards for Faithlife's performance as a business than they would for other companies, just because it's a Christian company I guess. But Faithlife is not a charity providing a public service with folks complaining about free stuff. People paid for an upgrade to their software.
And for folks saying that "software is never finished"... Maybe the best word to use is "functional" from the perspective of the end-user. What has happened is that the end-user has actually lost functionality that they are now painfully and agonizingly waiting to get back. Therefore, the product is not finished/functional from that definition. It's one thing for the product to be fully functional but missing some enhancements and bells and whistles, but if people can no longer do the basic things they need to get their work done, or have to find endless "work-arounds" for everything, then can you really say that the product release was finished?
It does annoy me that people in the forums feel like they have to step in a speak for Faithlife and protect them from criticism. Sometimes it seems just reflexive. I've seen people do it even when you're just making a suggestion for an improvement. People jump in and start speaking on behalf of Faithlife about what they can't or shouldn't be expected to do. It can be really frustrating.
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