An Open Letter to Bob Pritchett

I'm not Bob, but I am a reviewer of Bible software.

I have one question. Can you name one Bible software program that does what you are suggesting above? I have tested and reviewed nearly all of the major Bible software available for a Windows PC. I can't think of one. Now there are a couple that let you create books inside the program or with external tools. But that is not what you are suggesting for "notes". In fact I think what you are looking for is not a notes feature but a rich, document creation tool like the Personal Book Builder, which I am sure will be along sometime this year.

Your characterization of what you say Bob thinks of as notes is exactly what I think notes should be - a place to store your observations into a personal style commentary. We need little else. I have a competing product that I use for notes and it has some of the features you suggest. But I don't use any of them. I use simple text formating, simple paragraph formatting and the hyperlink creation tool. That is it. Most will not use much more.

If you want something to do what you are suggesting within the Bible study program, then I think you will be waiting as almost NO ONE is doing this.

Usability aside, it sure would be neat to read a review about your favorite Bible software, and see:

"As far as taking notes, Logos is unsurpassed in Bible study software..."

Wading into the fray, I use notes within L4, but if I want a full word-processor functionality then I will use a tool designed for that purpose so I can put notes, place scripture references, and a tool that I can use even if I am not using Logos (which is highly unlikely regardless of the continuous complaints about missing features). Logos is still the best Bible Study tool in the marketplace (IMO) and I would prefer that development resources continue to be focused on responsiveness, functionality of what it does so well helping one dig deeper and grow spiritually, and not trying to recreate a tool that exists even though it isn't integrated into Logos. Does that mean notes could not have some improvements, not at all, but there are other functions that would provide us more bang for the buck that Logos invests.

Personally, I think Bob is well aware of comments both good and bad about Logos - L4 - that people are posting. "Constructive" criticism is always a good thing, but when it sinks to a gripe session that pulls quotes from various people which may or may not being taken out of context is just as bad as not following what Paul was reminding Timothy in 2 Tim 2:15. I understand the software business, and things are prioritized and as a user you are always looking for the next improvement. So with that said, I agree with Ted...

Ted Hans said:

My request to Bob is take your time & PLEASE get it right before any feature is release.Thanks for Logos 4.

There are things I would like see that to me are more important than a pseudo word-processor for note taking that would be more beneficial. I trust Bob and his direction of Logos and the Logos family for their continuing efforts to provide the best Bible study tool available anywhere.

I guess I'll jump in on this and make a comment similar to the one I made on another thread regarding the subject being discussed here.

I have been a Logos user for a number of years. My first Logos program was Lesson Builder. I think Logos has a done a great job with all of their products and while none of them has done everything I wanted them to do, they have been as advertised and I have never been mislead regarding their capability. When L4 was released I spent a few days looking at the program features and reading various reviews on forums and other sites on the internet. When I had sufficient information regarding L4 I made the decision to purchase the program.

Once I started using it I had questions about some of the features, most of which were answered by more experienced users on the forums. When I had a problem trying to figure out how to do something, I again went to the forums and have been able to utilize the experience of other users. I had one issue that required tech support that occurred because it is software, on a computer operated by a human being (that would be me). It took a day to figure out what the problem was and in the middle of the night between Friday night and Saturday morning the tech who assisted me sent an email instructing me on a fix for my problem. I was surprised and pleased with the dedication of this Logos employee.

My point is this, It seems to me that many users made a purchase without knowing what they were buying. It also seems that even those who may have known what they were buying somehow thought  the feature that is important to them would be escalated to the top of the priority list.

I ran a company for more than 20 years and my customers knew that they could count on me to deliver everything I told them I would deliver; listen to them and try to meet their future needs; and be honest about what I could and could not do. I had some prospects over the years who decided what I could provide would not meet their needs and we parted friends. I had others who developed needs and desires I could not meet and again we parted friends. I believe Logos models that philosophy.

I think, based on what I have seen with other programs and my personal experience with Logos products, that Logos has the best product available. I also think the Logos employees are a dedciated group of professionals that have bought into the vision BobP has for the company; and they represent him well. If I did not believe that I would not have invested the money I have over the years. I also recognize that others may not agreethat and my suggestion would be to find the product you do believe is best. If you cannot find one (and I doubt you can) then invest the capital to start a company, hire the talent you need to write a program, and market it. Let the consumer market decide how you've done.

I don't see my dog out there either ;-). When I want to take notes I use MS Word. It does everything I want and more than L4 ever could (which I think is Bob's point). I bought Logos in order to read books and it is much more important to me that the books are fully functional (e.g. have page numbers!) than that I be able to take notes. I can take notes using multiple programs but I can only read many of my books in Logos. Yesterday I wanted to look up a page reference in IVP's
Dictionary
of the Later New Testament and Its Developments. No such luck. Amazon doesn't have a searchable version either. It's not good enough to tell me that many schools have ways to cite electronic resources without page numbers. The point of a reference is so that other people can look it up. If they don't have Logos how can they do that without a page number? If I do have the page number to find the reference in Logos I have to have some text to search in order to find the context. My 2 cents worth.

Tom

Thomas Black said:

Sorry, but I'm with James on this one.  Notes needs work to be workable for me for more than an odd comment here or there. 

I am with Thomas & James on this one also... though maybe I would have sugar coated it a bit.  Also, as has already been said. A lot of the quotes are dated to pre-4.0b, yet I would say that notes still has a way to go to fit my tastes. [^o)]

I don't uses notes in L4 at all anymore. Check that I have one note.

Fred Chapman said:

My point is this, It seems to me that many users made a purchase without knowing what they were buying. It also seems that even those who may have known what they were buying somehow thought  the feature that is important to them would be escalated to the top of the priority list.

  For me, I bought a program that was billed as incomplete, but had the committment of the company to finish and polish it while I used it.  I trust Logos, and I really loved the direction they were heading (for multiple reasons) with L4--it has rocked my world, much more so than L3 ever did.  I've had some index/BSOD woes (fixed by the great comrades I've found on this forum) and have a pile of carcasses laying around from all the chickens I've sacrificed trying to structure what I've gleaned from Logos-based resources into material I can print / present to my Sunday school class.  I'm concerned that the Mac is about to receive more programmer time, but understand there is a user community there that also deserves some attention.

  The interesting part is whether my expectation of what "complete" should be will align with where Logos draws the line.  I can't imagine that they will continue rolling out new capabilities forever...experience has shown me that I'll be seeing a new engine in a few years & will have to buy into that ... ouch ... to get the next new neat capabilities.  I'd certainly like to see better notes capability, even if that only means something like tight integration with OneNote (or suitable sub).

I feel like I am missing out. Never used notes at all, even in V3. Maybe that is why I love V4 so much. I don't miss what I don't use.

I don't understand what all the fuss is about notes. I guess I just study different.

Jerry

MarkStevens said:

I feels as if you are trying to bait Bob and, quite frankly, that is unfair. Everyone has the right to be annoyed and frustrated. However, when you post a letter like this you do very little to get any answer you want. It generates discussion but that is all

[Y]

Dan DeVilder said:

Part of me would like to learn to be more proficient using alt+tab (I use it a bit, but it is not second nature to figure how to make it efficient) and other features.  And I guess I am not really opposed to using outside software.  I just don't think it is very easy.

Using multiple applications at once and copying/sharing data between them is one of the main advantages of a multi-tasking operating system like Windows. Alt+Tab functionality for switching between them has been improved in Vista (and Windows 7) over XP. In XP you used to have to hold down the Alt key and hit Tab several times to get to the application you were trying to switch to, and depending on how recently that other app had been on top, it could take quite a number of keystrokes to get back there. But as of Vista, you can now do Alt+Tab and then holding down the Alt key, click on the icon of the application you want to go back to and return there immediately. Of course you've always been able to jump direction to an application by clicking its icon in the taskbar down at the bottom of the screen, but sometimes (when you have lots of apps open at once) that taskbar gets full and the names of the apps are truncated, but with Alt+Tab you get to see the full name of each app (and the name of the document it has open if it's a document-based app) as you tab to it.

Paul Golder said:

In the rapidly changing world of software, there is more than a good chance that within the next year or so, someone is going to come up with a new Bible program that everyone in the geek world has to have.

Being somewhat of a geek myself, I own 90%+ of Bible software published in English  (Mac, PC.) Geeks buy stuff just for the sake of buying stuff. The true custopmer base that will keep driving Logos development are the users who really USE the software to it's limits. So if notes, PBBs and printing are things that segment desires, it will eventually be added. The "bells & whistles" geeks will just find another program to brew their coffee for them.

Paul Golder said:

Is it a good investment of resources in developing features for 10% (or less) of the users base, that does 80% (or more) of the online talking about the software?

Huh?? [:^)] I don't know. Does that 10% have orders placed for 80% of the Pre-Pub page?

While I am right that no other Bible study application does what the original poster wants, there is one that comes very close. Logos may want to remove this, but it is Bibleworks. However, that program is so inferior in the area of library. It is not a library tool but a very advanced tool for studying the Bible's original languages and for doing exegetical study. It has one commentary that I can think of, Matthew Henry, which is of limited value to me. I use Logos for most study and Bibleworks for keeping notes and most searching of the Bible itself. I keep notes in Bibleworks because it has the best notes feature. They are simple, fast, and can do a lot if you want all of that. Logos does one thing BW does not. Bible references are automatically hyperlinks. If Logos was as fast as BW notes, and had as much formatting options as BW, it would be the most useful for all stages of Bible study.

Kevin A. Purcell said:

While I am right that no other Bible study application does what the original poster wants, there is one that comes very close

Sorry to thow a spanner in, but theres at least two..

this is a screen shot from another one.. but I will stick to rules and not name it here, but its one of the free ones..