Who will we know in heaven
I have several people in a Bible study discussing whether we will know the people we knew on earth in heaven.
I am having trouble finding info to prove/disprove.
Any pointers/answers?
Comments
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Luke 16:19-31 but if it's really heaven I will know/remember everyone's name [;)]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Just to contribute to the thread...
The disciples were able to recognize Moses and Elijah on the Mount of Transfiguration though they had no photo of what they looked like. Luke tells us that they appeared with Jesus "in glory". The point, though, is that they could recognize who they were. Does that give some indication?
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1 Corinthians 13:12 (NRSV): For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then we will see face to face. Now I know only in part; then I will know fully, even as I have been fully known.
I always took this to mean we would recognize all, for we are in Christ and Christ knows all and it is Jesus’ pleasure to share.
-dan
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A crude search in your library may be: recognize WITHIN 3 WORDS “in Heaven”
I searched this on my phone app and it pulled up some false positives, but several resources that may help your search. It didn’t seem to difficult to separate through.
Running a sermon starter guide or a Factbok search of Heaven may give you some dictionary articles the read through that might yield results. Those are simple starts to use Logos to help find some answers.
As you find pertinent scripture to your search (from those provided in this thread and your searches), you could also run a passage guide of the scripture and see what trails that may lead you down.
A more experienced user may suggest either a resource, more accurate search suggestion, or tip that would help out
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3 resources in Logos that may assist you:
Bibliotheca Sacra Vol 108 has an article "Will we know each other in Heaven"
"Heaven: Where is it , its inhabitants and how to get there" By DL Moody
"Heaven" by Randy AlcornEach of these resources attempts to answer the question
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Thank all of you who have replied. I found some help. I do not have Randy Alcorn's "Heaven"
I would still be appreciative of any advice.
Thanks again.
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Well my dog better recognize me! and according to Alcorn, my buddy will.
mm.
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Like many such questions, I don't think the available evidence gives a perfectly clear answer. For instance, it says that those in the kingdom are not married (I'm assuming that means to each other, since there is a marriage to the Lamb that will take place). I didn't look it up, but I recall something about some who become ashes underfoot and who will cease to be a memory. This seems to indicate that some form of amnesia will occur that will eliminate recollection of those who meet this fate. My understanding, based on these and other related verses, is that there will be selective and limited recollection. Things that seem to be very important now may be irrelevant once glorified.
To put a finer point on it, YHWH is not at all in the business of fulfilling our plans...He's in the business of fulfilling His own. Things we might like or prefer may carry zero weight or interest or importance to Him. Scripture says we must confirm our will to His. With that in mind, I don't carry much in the way of expectation about the future apart from a clear sense that I ought to want to be there to experience it, whatever it is.
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"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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I have several people in a Bible study discussing whether we will know the people we knew on earth in heaven.
I am having trouble finding info to prove/disprove.
Any pointers/answers?
To add to the list of Scriptures mentioned already:
When Saul consulted the witch of Endor (1Sam.28), the unexpected result was the actual Samuel who appeared.Also, remember there will be a physical resurrection. Our bodies will be like Christ's body, but they will still be our bodies. How can we doubt that we won't recognize each other?
The concept that we all somehow become amorphous non-distinct entities is not at all a Biblical idea - though it does sound very Buddhist (hinayana - sp?). Even the Scriptures above mention encountering saints who are still in the intermediate state.
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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Rich DeRuiter said:
though it does sound very Buddhist (hinayana - sp?).
Huh?? Buddhists, whether Hinayana or Mahayana, deny the permanence of any entity including substance. There is no permanent "us" to be morphous or amorphous, recognized or not. And even if there were a permanent "us", there is no permanent substance for us to continue in - tangible or intangible, morphous or amorphous. There is only a chain of causation and a way to break that chain (a simplification but close to accurate).
BTW hinayana is a somewhat derogatory term "small wheel" applied to the conservative branch of Buddhism by the Mahayanists ("big wheel"). It is more commonly known as Theravadan Buddhism.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I have several people in a Bible study discussing whether we will know the people we knew on earth in heaven.
I am having trouble finding info to prove/disprove.
Any pointers/answers?
If you believe that believers will be resurrected with a body similar to Jesus' resurrected body, then you can explore the post-resurrection stories. In these stories, Jesus clearly remembered who his apostles were.
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Rich DeRuiter said:
When Saul consulted the witch of Endor (1Sam.28), the unexpected result was the actual Samuel who appeared.
Or was it a demon pretending to be Samuel? In life Samuel did not speak to Saul for some time so why would God allow Saul to call him back from the grave or from out of heaven?
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David Ames said:
Or was it a demon pretending to be Samuel? In life Samuel did not speak to Saul for some time so why would God allow Saul to call him back from the grave or from out of heaven?
Samuel prophesied to Saul about what would happen tomorrow, and it came to pass. It seems more fitting that Samuel, rather than a demon, would prophesy.
Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!
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MJ. Smith said:
Huh?? Buddhists, whether Hinayana or Mahayana, deny the permanence of any entity including substance. There is no permanent "us" to be morphous or amorphous, recognized or not.
Yeah. That was my point. Perhaps an exaggerated restatement of the original issue of being non-recognizable entities, but a similar denial of the permanence of identifiable personhood, and the survivability (sp?) of relationships. The concept of being non-recognizable in the intermediate or final state seems to me to have an origin outside of Biblical thinking. Buddhism (or possibly an adaptation of it) was the closest I could come up with at the time.
MJ. Smith said:BTW hinayana is a somewhat derogatory term "small wheel" applied to the conservative branch of Buddhism by the Mahayanists ("big wheel"). It is more commonly known as Theravadan Buddhism.
Oops! It's been a while since I interacted with those terms (probably more than 30 years) I meant Mahayana, in distinction from a more syncretistic folk type of Buddhism that might not hold to the same concepts in the same way.
And yes, I'm quite used to displaying my ignorance. [;)]
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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Josh said:
I have several people in a Bible study discussing whether we will know the people we knew on earth in heaven.
I am having trouble finding info to prove/disprove.
Any pointers/answers?
If you believe that believers will be resurrected with a body similar to Jesus' resurrected body, then you can explore the post-resurrection stories. In these stories, Jesus clearly remembered who his apostles were.
Your conclusion (not bolded) seems like a case of using an example that has all the earmarks of being a possible exception to the rule in order to establish the rule...sort of like using the thief on the cross as your example for "what's expected of one who is saved". Yeishuua` is 'Elohhiym.
Even so, when you mentioned "post-resurrection stories" (bold print), I thought you were going to make a relevant point, but left it hanging. In light of this comment...
Rich DeRuiter said:Also, remember there will be a physical resurrection. Our bodies will be like Christ's body, but they will still be our bodies. How can we doubt that we won't recognize each other?
...I would have thought that the two of you would recall the obvious fact that in the post-resurrection story of the road to Emmaus (Lk. 24:15, 16), it shows as plain as day that the disciples could be in His presence for an hour or more and not know who He was.
Again, I say to all, the evidence is not clear on this point, and your personal desire that it be otherwise has the potential be be a judgment against you. It is fundamental evidence of willfulness.
Regarding Samuel's "calling up", I suspect that the person most shocked by his appearance was the woman who called him up. She certainly gives that impression, perhaps because it had never really WORKED before. And since Sh'muu'eil bears a prophecy from 'Elohhiym which comes true, it seems pretty clear that YHWH chose to use Saul's clear example of rejecting His word regarding divination and necromancy to be the vessel of Shaa'uul's judgment of impending destruction. In other words, YHWH used the medium as the mechanism of judgment for consulting mediums. [Insert Marshall McLuhan pun here.] The kindergarten Sunday school idea that YHWH can have no intercourse with "evil" is fundamentally false for a host of reasons clearly established in Scripture. So while, in the usual process of events, something like Samuel being brought back may not be possible for a human to accomplish, if YHWH has a reason of His own, nothing can prevent it from happening.
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"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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Josh said:
If you believe that believers will be resurrected with a body similar to Jesus' resurrected body, then you can explore the post-resurrection stories. In these stories, Jesus clearly remembered who his apostles were.
Just a friendly discussion, several Logos books note the cornaecopia of information on anyone landing behind the gates of Hades, but a dirth of information on heaven. The latter primarily surround the occupants, but worse, largely reflect historic imagery (thrones with wheels, etc).
But using Jesus as a guide is not recommended. The judge of the living and the dead would likely need a good recognition memory. And the guys that followed Jesus around, didn't recognize him. Not good.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Denise said:
But using Jesus as a guide is not recommended. The judge of the living and the dead would likely need a good recognition memory. And the guys that followed Jesus around, didn't recognize him. Not good.
I almost mentioned the fact the He is Judge (thus requiring spot-on recollection), but then I recalled what Paulus said about the "we" of assumed salvation being judges of the "not we"...so I decided to let that quietly dwell in my broader "it's a mixed bag of uncertainty" designation.
That said, I just noticed the phrasing of the OP's question, which leads me to reconsider what qualifies as an appropriate answer. The question of "who will we know IN HEAVEN" assumes that we (or any human) goes to heaven, which is itself an assumption fraught with contrary Scriptural evidence. In a nutshell, no one goes to heaven...heaven comes to those who survive the Day of YHWH.
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"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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David Paul said:
You are correct they did not recognize him. John 20:14 and 21:4 also seem to indicate that this is a common occurrence with Jesus in his resurrected body. However, if you can recall "the obvious fact", each case was only a temporary veiling of identity.
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David Ames said:
why would God allow Saul to call him back from the grave or from out of heaven?
From Sheol, believed to be below (cf., Gen 37:35), not heaven believed to be up. Saul was soon to join him (1 Sam 28:19). People always go "down" to sheol and Samuel is brought "up" by the medium.
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If I may be allowed to do so, David, just adding this verse to clarify what I wrote earlier: Isaiah 7:11 (cf., Amos 9:2) and leave it at that. Lots of good articles in Logos to explore this topic, starting with a Bible search for Sheol.
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James: interesting topic.
Like other poster has said, there may not be clear evidence of what will really happen in heaven from the Bible witness. Revelation paints future worship that includes lots of ethnicities, but does not specify if they all hang out together by it (that would hint at recognition), or are they all mixed, hinting at more focus on worship to God above individual idiosyncrasies.
Not many traditions are willing to take in external evidence as definite proof of certain reality.
So although interesting, stories can be illuminating, but do not carry weight to be doctrine setting.
One remarkable case is that of Dr. Eben Alexander. If it is legit, then is mind blowing, as he met (while in a particular bacterial meningoencefalitis induced coma) a sister he did not know he had. She had died as part of his original family (he was adopted), and did not know about that incident until went through the experience. (I saw a video on this a while ago, and I am relying on faulty memory for the recollection, so is better if interested persons check the story by themselves).
http://ebenalexander.com/about/my-experience-in-coma/
doctor experiences after life in coma due to meningitis
Most traditions understand that experience is many times subjective, and not to be trusted if out of alignment with the Bible. Strange thing is that many persons in the Bible had very strange (and supernatural) experiences, and wrote about it, and we take them at face value.
Faithlife e books has some books on the topic, and while not Scripture, they open up the possibility [a rough conjecture] that there may be some form of recognition of significant others in Hades (some even claim in heaven) that we infer from the credibility of some of the cases presented.
https://ebooks.faithlife.com/search?query=after+life
I mention the above not to start polemics but just to touch on a different angle to further explore an interesting topic.
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1Co 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
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