Augustine New 21st Century Transalation on PrePub !!!!!!
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This is an excellent Pre-pub! These translations are a dramatic improvement on the 19th century ones. They are much easier to read and--in my limited use of them so far--more literal.
(If I could afford this set, I'd order it!)
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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Randy Lane said:
Yahoo!!!
Understatement.
This is exciting indeed! I have about a dozen and a half of these in print, and they've been worth every penny. The 6 volumes of Augustine's Expositions of the Psalms are worth their weight in gold. Like the edition of Confessions in this series, they are all translated by Maria Boulding, OSB. The introduction by Michael Fiedrowicz included in the first volume is very well done.
Now to find $1300 in loose change under the couch cushions...
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Kevin Clemens said:Randy Lane said:
Yahoo!!!
Understatement.
This is exciting indeed! I have about a dozen and a half of these in print, and they've been worth every penny. The 6 volumes of Augustine's Expositions of the Psalms are worth their weight in gold. Like the edition of Confessions in this series, they are all translated by Maria Boulding, OSB. The introduction by Michael Fiedrowicz included in the first volume is very well done.
Now to find $1300 in loose change under the couch cushions...
Priced at $1,000 now
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Randy Lane said:
Priced at $1,000 now
Still $1300 CAD, alas. It's not that the collection isn't worth it, though.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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To the powers at be,
Is there an estimated timeline until this resource goes live? (Trying to figure out how long I have to scrape the money together to take advantage of the pre-pub 50% discount). Thanks.
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Kevin Clemens said:
To the powers at be,
Is there an estimated timeline until this resource goes live? (Trying to figure out how long I have to scrape the money together to take advantage of the pre-pub 50% discount). Thanks.
I would bet at least the other side of Easter, at the earliest. Probably this calendar year.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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Any chance we can put this on a payment plan?
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Mike Tourangeau said:
Any chance we can put this on a payment plan?
Or the price could drop another $300... (or more [;)]
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I'd be grateful if they'd simply break up the bundle.
Carpe verbum.
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Kevin Clemens said:
Is there an estimated timeline until this resource goes live? (Trying to figure out how long I have to scrape the money together to take advantage of the pre-pub 50% discount).
FL doesn't typically comment on those kinds of questions. Very probably, it is a long time off. You <should> have ample notice of its release. You can also return it... although 1K is a big chunk.
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Liam Maguire said:
I'd be grateful if they'd simply break up the bundle.
But if they break it up before producing it, some volumes probably won't get produced, at least as quickly. Other people will complain and get confused. The ones that do get produced would be harder to market as a collection later, the PrePub discount/volume would be lessened, and it would be harder and less likely that the future volumes would get through.
I'm sure it'll be broken up after it's been live for awhile. In the meantime, well, now is a great time to collect them all.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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JT (alabama24) said:
Very probably, it is a long time off. You <should> have ample notice of its release. You can also return it... although 1K is a big chunk.
So start saving up now is what you are suggesting...
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Michael S. said:JT (alabama24) said:
although 1K is a big chunk.
So start saving up now is what you are suggesting...
Admittedly 1K is a hefty bit of change, but as some of the larger volumes rarely dip below $70 each, to pick them all up for under $25/book seems to be worth the effort to save up.
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SineNomine said:
But if they break it up before producing it, some volumes probably won't get produced, at least as quickly. Other people will complain and get confused. The ones that do get produced would be harder to market as a collection later, the PrePub discount/volume would be lessened, and it would be harder and less likely that the future volumes would get through.
I'm sure it'll be broken up after it's been live for awhile. In the meantime, well, now is a great time to collect them all.
Alas, my previous comment was a case of clarity taken hostage to brevity. I should have said, I'd be grateful if they'd simply break up the bundle after production is complete. Something which is not always guaranteed.
Carpe verbum.
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Kevin Clemens said:
Admittedly 1K is a hefty bit of change, but as some of the larger volumes rarely dip below $70 each, to pick them all up for under $25/book seems to be worth the effort to save up.
$70 dollars for a print edition is one thing... The morality of physical books being sold for the same price as digital books (Which have 0 raw material, printing, storage, shipping, etc. cost) is a whole separate issue. [:#]
[;)]
Carpe verbum.
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Kevin Clemens said:
Admittedly 1K is a hefty bit of change,
The "value" wasn't in mind by my comment. Rather, I meant to say: If you decide you can't swing it when it goes live, you can "return" the item, but $1,000 is a large amount (at least for those of us who would inquire about a payment plan) to have to carry on your credit card during the time it is charged until the time your refund is processed.
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JT (alabama24) said:
The "value" wasn't in mind by my comment.
JT (alabama24) said: $1,000 is a large amount (at least for those of us who would inquire about a payment plan) to have to carry on your credit card during the time it is charged until the time your refund is processed.
My mistake. Yes, I agree wholeheartedly.
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FYI: Logos has broken up the bundle!
Meme and you shall receive:
The City of God : A Translation for the 21st Century (2 vols.)
https://www.logos.com/product/175079/the-city-of-god-a-translation-for-the-21st-century
The Confessions, 2nd ed.: A Translation for the 21st Century
https://www.logos.com/product/175080/the-confessions-2nd-ed-a-translation-for-the-21st-century
The Sermons of Saint Augustine: A Translation for the 21st Century (11 vols.)
Augustine’s Expositions and Homilies: A Translation for the 21st Century (11 vols.)
Augustine’s Letters and Theological Writings: A Translation for the 21st Century (9 vols.)
Augustine’s Doctrinal Writings: A Translation for the 21st Century (9 vols.)
Potato resting atop 2020 Mac Pro stand.
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The total cost of all 6 bundles is $1,200.94. So, there's a good discount for the complete bundle.
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Dale E Heath said:
The total cost of all 6 bundles is $1,200.94. So, there's a good discount for the complete bundle.
This is only relevant if you want the entire bundle and or have 1k to spend.
For those who only really want one or two resources this is great.
(When you go to the store to buy an item and see that its a buy two get one free deal, you're not actually saving money unless you were going to use or need three of the items. Otherwise you are just paying twice as much as you would have for something you don't need and weren't planning on buying.)
Potato resting atop 2020 Mac Pro stand.
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Kevin Clemens said:
The 6 volumes of Augustine's Expositions of the Psalms are worth their weight in gold.
[Y]
I'll definitely purchase the 6 Psalms volumes if they become available separately.
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It is indeed a shame that they decided to bundle the Expositions of the Psalms with these other more readily available works such as the commentary on John's Gospel/Epistle and the Sermon on the Mount. I think that most of us have purchased the CUA versions of these works and so we would be paying for quite a bit of overlap just to gain access to the Expositions (which to my knowledge were last translated to English in the 19th century). I'm not familiar enough with New City Press to know whether their translations are substantially better than the CUA translations. Does anyone have any insight into this?
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Jeff said:
It is indeed a shame that they decided to bundle the Expositions of the Psalms with these other more readily available works such as the commentary on John's Gospel/Epistle and the Sermon on the Mount. I think that most of us have purchased the CUA versions of these works and so we would be paying for quite a bit of overlap just to gain access to the Expositions (which to my knowledge were last translated to English in the 19th century). I'm not familiar enough with New City Press to know whether their translations are substantially better than the CUA translations. Does anyone have any insight into this?
The only negative I have seen about the translations centers around substituting names of individuals or groups where Augustine did not specifically do so.
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Jeff said:
the Expositions (which to my knowledge were last translated to English in the 19th century).
This is correct, though translations of the Expositions of the Psalms for Psalms 1-37 are available in the Ancient Christian Writers series (vols 29-30). These translations date to the early 1960s.
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For those who have Augustine Through the Ages: An Encyclopedia, there is a helpful Guide to Augustine's Works which lists all his works, both the Latin editions (PL, CSEL, CCL) along with any English translations when they can be found in the Fathers of the Church, Ancient Christian Writers, Nicene & Post-Nicene Fathers, and the Works of St. Augustine (New City Press trans.)
This may be useful if seeking to assess how much overlap there would be between the New City Press editions and works you already own.
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Jeff said:
I'm not familiar enough with New City Press to know whether their translations are substantially better than the CUA translations. Does anyone have any insight into this?
I wouldn't say that the translations are substantially better, although differences in style do seem to depend a good deal on the particular translator.
By way of one short example of the CUA Press translation alongside the New City Press edition, consider the following excerpt from On Genesis: A Refutation of the Manichees. Again, the differences are fairly small.
Patrologia Latina
Ergo quod per historiam impletum est in Adam, per prophetiam significat Christum, qui reliquit patrem, cum dixit: Ego a patre exivi, et veni in hunc mundum.
Non loco reliquit, quia Deus loco non continetur, neque aversione peccati, sicut apostatae relinquunt Deum; sed apparendo hominibus in homine, cum Verbum caro factum est, et habitavit in nobis.
Quod ipsum non commutationem naturae Dei significat, sed susceptionem naturae inferioris personae, id est humanae.
Ad hoc valet etiam quod dicitur: Semetipsum exinanivit; quia non in ea dignitate apparuit hominibus in qua est apud Patrem, blandiens eorum infirmitati, qui cor mundum nondum habebant, unde videretur Verbum in principio Deus apud Deum.
Quid est ergo quod diximus, reliquit Patrem, nisi, reliquit apparere hominibus sicut est apud Patrem?
Fathers of the Church (CUA Press; 1991)
Hence, what was fulfilled as history in Adam signifies as prophecy Christ, who left his Father, when he said, “I went forth from my Father and came into this world.”
He left not by place, because God is not contained by place, and not by turning away in sin, as apostates leave God, but by appearing to men in a man, when “the Word became flesh and dwelled among us.”
This does not mean a change in the nature of God, but the assumption of the nature of an inferior, that is, a human person.
This is also what is meant when it said, “He emptied himself,”because he did not appear to men in that dignity which he had with the Father, but took into account the weakness of those who did not yet have a clean heart whereby they might see the Word in the beginning with the Father.
What then do the words, “he left the Father,” mean but that he left [the Father] to appear to men as he is with the Father?
Works of St. Augustine (NCP; 2002)
So then, what as a matter of history was fulfilled in Adam, as a matter of prophecy signifies Christ, who left his Father when he said: I came out from the Father and have come into this world.
He didn’t leave the Father spatialy, because God is not contained in a space, nor by turning away from him in sin, in the way apostates leave God; but by appearing among human beings as a man, when the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us.
This again doesn’t signify any change in the nature of God, but the taking on of the nature of a lower, that is, of a human, person.
That is also the force of the statement, he emptied himself, because he did not show himself to us in the honor and rank he enjoys with the Father, but cosseted our weakness while we did not yet have hearts and minds clean enough to see the Word as God with God.
So what else do we mean by saying he left the Father, but that he forbore to appear to us as he is with the Father?
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Very interesting- thank you Kevin. It does seem that the NCP translations are more "dynamic." That's not something I usually prefer with scripture but this isn't scripture. It may make it easier to absorb St. Augustine's wisdom, provided it's faithful to the original, which it seems to be, judging from your comparison. Generally, the best translation is always the one that I will actually pick up and read. But to be honest, I don't find the differences to be worth the cost of purchasing a bunch of overlapping material. On a side note, it appears that the Google Play Store is offering each volume of the Expositions as a standard ebook at less than $20 each.
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Agreed. Way too much in Canadian coin.
mm.
SineNomine said:Randy Lane said:Priced at $1,000 now
Still $1300 CAD, alas. It's not that the collection isn't worth it, though.
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Can someone from Faithlife give us some idea when we can expect this to go live? I am trying my hardest to get the whole set, but depending on the timeline I may have to pick & choose which ones I buy.
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Roger Dittmar said:Kevin Clemens said:
The 6 volumes of Augustine's Expositions of the Psalms are worth their weight in gold.
I'll definitely purchase the 6 Psalms volumes if they become available separately.
Does anyone know if they will be tagged as commentaries? Showing up in the passage guide?
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Jeff said:
Very interesting- thank you Kevin. It does seem that the NCP translations are more "dynamic."
Both in the excerpt given and in other places I've looked at, I would say that the NCP translations are if anything less dynamic, although not universally. The NCP translation of the concluding sentence is the one I would follow, rather than the CUA one, which contradicts it. Both translations above are on the whole pretty faithful to the Latin, though neither is as exactingly literal as is technically possible--even taking the most literal parts of each.
I see value in having both, especially for people who can't read the Latin.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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Mike Tourangeau said:
Can someone from Faithlife give us some idea when we can expect this to go live? I am trying my hardest to get the whole set, but depending on the timeline I may have to pick & choose which ones I buy.
Anyone?
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Sorry, I can understand that many would like to know how soon this will go live.
But the fact that the release date not been posted on logos.com yet simply means that the decision has not been made yet.
So its not possible to give an estimate of when this product will go live. Your best source of information for this is the logos.com description for this product, it will be updated as soon as the decision has been made.
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Joe McCune (Faithlife) said:
Sorry, I can understand that many would like to know how soon this will go live.
But the fact that the release date not been posted on logos.com yet simply means that the decision has not been made yet.
So its not possible to give an estimate of when this product will go live. Your best source of information for this is the logos.com description for this product, it will be updated as soon as the decision has been made.
Thanks for the reply, I understand.
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T-minus 10 days. The complete set is Shipping Oct 3.
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Having purchased the Fathers of the Church volumes not too long ago and looking at the translation differences that Kevin Clemens provided, I am not seeing a real incentive to purchase the NCP volumes.
Are there any new volumes in the NCP set that I don't have already? Any of the smaller sets that you would recommend and why?
Thanks
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It's unfortunate that most pre-pubs/orders don't show dynamic pricing. It's also difficult to compare titles that are in a different series or from a different publisher. Has anyone done a spread sheet showing all the different titles and which collection they're in?
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Robert Neely said:
Are there any new volumes in the NCP set that I don't have already? Any of the smaller sets that you would recommend and why?If you have the Augustine Through the Ages: An Encyclopedia from Eerdmans, it has a table of Augustine's works that contains all the extant works and identifies if the FC, ACW, NPNF, and WSA (the New City Press set) contain a translation.
In my opinion, the following subsets contain a substantial amount of “new” content” for those who have FC and ACW. You’ll have to look at particular volumes to see if these are of interest to you. All of the listed volumes contain material neither in the CUA Fathers of the Church series or the Ancient Christian Writers series. (Note: not everything in each volume is new, but at least a portion of these volumes contain material not otherwise in updated translations. Some may be available in the NPNF.)
Augustine’s Expositions and Homilies contains all 6 vols. of the Exp. Of the Psalms and vol I.14.
- III.15-20 Expositions of the Psalms | The ACW contains translations of only Expositions 1-36. Thus, volumes III.16-20 of NCP are new material (and some of Augustine’s finest works). (There is a resource with all 150, but the translation is mid 19th Century).
- I.14 Writings on the Old Testament
Augustine’s Doctrinal Writings contains vols. I.18-21, I.23-25
- I.18 Arianism and Other Heresies
- I.19 The Manichean Debate
- I.20 Answer to Faustus a Manichean
- I.21 The Donatist Controversy 1
- I.23 Answer to the Pelagians 1
- I.24 Answer to the Pelagians 2
- I.25 Answer to the Pelagians 3
The Sermons of St. Augustine contains vols. III.1-11
- III.1-11 Sermons | Only Sermons 184-265 are available in the FC series. The eleven volumes of sermons in the NCP edition (III.1-11) contain all of Augustine's sermons, 1-396. So a majority of these Sermons are found only in the NCP translation.
Hope this helps to some degree
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Robert Neely said:
Any of the smaller sets that you would recommend and why?
The 6 vols on the Expositions of the Psalms are Augustine at some of his best. If choosing only one smaller set, I'd pick up this one. My two cents.
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Dale E Heath said:
It's unfortunate that most pre-pubs/orders don't show dynamic pricing. It's also difficult to compare titles that are in a different series or from a different publisher. Has anyone done a spread sheet showing all the different titles and which collection they're in?
Dale, if you have Augustine Through the Ages, this table of Augustine's works shows all the translations in FC, ACW, NPNF, and WSA (the New City Press set). It doesn't export well, however, otherwise I'd just share the relevant sections of the table.
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Dale E Heath said:
It's unfortunate that most pre-pubs/orders don't show dynamic pricing.
Actually, they normally do, on the rare occasions that dynamic pricing is relevant to them.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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Thank you Kevin Clemens, all your input has been very helpful. I have most of Augustine's works already, so I'll just sit this one out and perhaps pick up Psalms when it's available and on sale. It appears the main advantage of this collection is modern english and newer translation.
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I‘m sitting it out to, nice to have but for my needs not essential to have another translation at this point in time at this price.Dale E Heath said:
Thank you Kevin Clemens, all your input has been very helpful. I have most of Augustine's works already, so I'll just sit this one out and perhaps pick up Psalms when it's available and on sale. It appears the main advantage of this collection is modern english and newer translation.
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New City Press just released a new volume in this series: Homilies on John 41-124:
Give feedback on bringing this latest volume to Logos/Verbum here: https://feedback.faithlife.com/boards/logos-book-requests/posts/augustine-ncp-homilies-on-john-41-124
More info on this latest volume from New City Press here.
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I was very pleased when I purchased L9 that included the complete new Augustine collection. I had resisted purchasing anything, except for City of God when it was on sale for a good price. I'll bump the new John.[:D]
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Kevin Clemens said:
Now to find $1300 in loose change under the couch cushions...
Augustine's 21 century translations are on a 59 % sale now, on Cyber Monday!
The Works of Saint Augustine: A Translation for the 21st Century (43 vols.) | Logos Bible Software
Check out my channel with Christian music in Youtube:@olli-pekka-pappi. Latest song added on Palm Sunday, April 13th 2025: Isaiah 53, The Suffering Servant of the Lord. Have a blessed Holy Week and Easter!
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Dale E Heath said:
I had resisted purchasing anything
Okay, here are my Confessions, not those of St. Augustine: I couldn't resist the temptation at this price level. So I pulled the trigger. So here's my problem: As Ken McGuire said in another thread:
Ken McGuire said:This Lutheran bought Logos Orthodox Silver because of all the relatively recent scholarly translations of fathers in it....
... this Lutheran did the very same with the exception of "Silver" back at "the good old Logos 8-days".
So: If I should want to "tolle et lege" ("take and read"), is there a way to prioritize my myriad of St. Augustine resources (so that the New City Press 21st Century Version comes first)?
To put it in another words: I have the Chaff's Early Church Fathers (ECF) -version (19th Century), the Ancient Christian Writers (ACW) -version and the Catholic University of America (CUA) -version (both 20th Century). How do put the 21st Century Version on top of that? Does the Logos prioritization work also on these kind of monographs?
Check out my channel with Christian music in Youtube:@olli-pekka-pappi. Latest song added on Palm Sunday, April 13th 2025: Isaiah 53, The Suffering Servant of the Lord. Have a blessed Holy Week and Easter!
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Olli-Pekka Ylisuutari said:
Does the Logos prioritization work also on these kind of monographs?
If those are indexed with an Augustine datatype (as they should be! for that money...) then yes.
Have joy in the Lord!
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NB.Mick said:Olli-Pekka Ylisuutari said:
Does the Logos prioritization work also on these kind of monographs?
If those are indexed with an Augustine datatype (as they should be! for that money...) then yes.
Yes.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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Olli-Pekka Ylisuutari said:
Does the Logos prioritization work also on these kind of monographs?
Yup. This is what I currently have.
The Gospel is not ... a "new law," on the contrary, ... a "new life." - William Julius Mann
L8 Anglican, Lutheran and Orthodox Silver, Reformed Starter, Academic Essentials
L7 Lutheran Gold, Anglican Bronze
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