Best books on OEC/EC/TE?

https://www.logos.com/product/5288/the-genesis-question

Hi Logos community,

Looking for more book recommendations, again, this time books which argue FOR Old Earth Creation, Evolutionary Creation, and/or Theistic Evolution, etc. Bonus points if their authors are supportive of the authority of Scripture and argue for a literal Adam and Eve.

I appreciate that OEC and EC/TE are not one and the same but it seemed logical to make a request for both together since they both the same area of interest. Argues for an old earth/universe.

Thanks, fellow Logicians, I look forward to reading your suggestions.Liam

Liam

I love books by Hugh Ross who is an Old Earth Creationist believing in an historical Adam. One book is today's Daily Homepage Deal.

This is one of my favourites by him:

https://www.logos.com/product/43279/why-the-universe-is-the-way-it-is

JohnB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1051343#Comment_1051343

Thanks guys. Something I had been wondering about . . .

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1051370#Comment_1051370

Denis O. Lamoureux is my favorite proponent of Theistic Evolution, since I've met him and know someone who was instrumental in his faith journey. He is uniquely qualified, as an evangelical with three earned doctoral degrees: in dentistry, evangelical theology and evolutionary biology. He tells his story of how he came to change his mind from a young-earth creationist to an evolutionary creationist in one of the chapters in How I Changed My Mind about Evolution: Evangelicals Reflect on Faith and Science, edited by Kathryn Applegate, J. B. Stump & Deborah Haarsma (IVP Academic, 2016).

He is also one of the four authors featured in Four Views on the Historical Adam (Zondervan Counterparts Series, 2013).

Note that he doesn't meet your criterion for bonus points. But if you're researching this area, you'll be hard-pressed to find evangelicals (believers who who take Scripture as authoritative) who support evolutionary creation or theistic evolution and who also believe Adam and Eve were historical people rather than part of a literary introduction to the book of origins, Genesis. There are other parts of Scripture that are obviously intended as stories that convey some larger theological truth. Jesus' parables are the prime example. Those who argue for an old earth created by means of evolution directed by God tend to view the creation narratives as setting out theological realities rather than scientific ones.

I haven't done an exhaustive study of theistic evolutionists, though. So there might be some out there who fit a historical Adam and Eve into their framework. Or rather fit their framework to allow for a historical Adam and Eve.

MJ. Smith

Okay, you got me. I had no clue what you meant by OEC/EC/TE. And I had only a bit more of an idea when I read your post. Unfortunately, my go to source for all things evolution is Pierre Teilhard de Chardin who is grossly underrepresented in Logos/Verbum resources. I think he argues for a teleological theistic evolution. See Astley, Jeff, David Brown, and Ann Loades. Creation: A Reader. Problems in Theology. London; New York: T&T Clark, 2003. for a bit from him.

DMB

There are other parts of Scripture that are obviously intended as stories that convey some larger theological truth. Jesus' parables are the prime example.

Just coincidentally, today munching on lunch and reading, the writer of 1 Enoch (centuries before Jesus; not the later Similitudes)) presents his history as a 'parable'. Looks like the usage is similar to 'an account' ... in this case, a spiritual witness, but presumably could also be a spiritual lesson (Jesus). I was surprised regarding Enoch; I suspect spiritual usage surrounding ancient history is impossible to pin down, as to what the writer meant. The rabbi's quickly re-did Gen 6; not shy.

Fun with Logos.

Roger Pitot

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1051343#Comment_1051343

However, John MacArthur has this to say:

Hugh Ross has embraced selected theories of big bang cosmology, which he regards as undisputed fact—including the notion that the universe and the earth are billions of years old—and he employs those theories as lenses through which to interpret Scripture. In effect, he makes Scripture subservient to science—and he does so without carefully separating scientific fact from scientific theory.

Hugh Ross is convinced modern scientific theories can give us a superior understanding of the basic facts related to the origin of the universe. All Ross’s books therefore argue, in effect, that the findings of modern science are necessary to interpret the Bible’s true meaning. According to Ross, our generation—thanks to the evolutionists’ big bang theory—is now able to understand the true meaning of the biblical creation narratives in a way no previous generation ever could.

MacArthur, J. (2001). The battle for the beginning: the Bible on creation and the fall of Adam.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1051453#Comment_1051453

However, John MacArthur has this to say:

Hugh Ross has embraced selected theories of big bang cosmology, which he regards as undisputed fact—including the notion that the universe and the earth are billions of years old—and he employs those theories as lenses through which to interpret Scripture. In effect, he makes Scripture subservient to science—and he does so without carefully separating scientific fact from scientific theory.

Hugh Ross is convinced modern scientific theories can give us a superior understanding of the basic facts related to the origin of the universe. All Ross’s books therefore argue, in effect, that the findings of modern science are necessary to interpret the Bible’s true meaning. According to Ross, our generation—thanks to the evolutionists’ big bang theory—is now able to understand the true meaning of the biblical creation narratives in a way no previous generation ever could.

MacArthur, J. (2001). The battle for the beginning: the Bible on creation and the fall of Adam.

I'm guessing John MacArthur is a Young Earth Creationist. My reading of Hugh Ross is that he holds the Bible as the ultimate authority. One interesting point he makes is that initially the Big Bang was not liked by many in the scientific community as it points to a point in time where the universe was created.

David Thomas

Looking for more book recommendations

Are you familiar with the writings of John Walton and John Sailhamer? Each has taught at a leading evangelical seminary/graduate school, but interpret early Genesis without a focus on chronology.

Jan Krohn

A debate between OEC and TE (Hugh Ross's RTB vs. BioLogos).

I believe William Lane Craig is also writing a new book on creation and the historical Adam.

On the YEC side, I've found Leonard Brand's book to be very honest. One of the few YEC authors who is not ashamed to also present the evidence that contradict their view. https://www.logos.com/product/30992/faith-reason-and-earth-history-2nd-ed (hint: a big monopolistic bully that starts with a has this ebook for free).

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1051484#Comment_1051484

Hi Everyone,

Thanks so much for all of the recommendations, this is one of the reasons I love the Logos Forum. So many authors I'd never heard of before, I can't wait to dig into some of these books and do some exploring.

By way of background, I was saved into a church that with a strong YEC background, attended an Answer in Genesis conference, and read several of Ken Hams books. I continued in my YEC position all through seminary and for serval years after that.

About 9 years ago I started to get into amateur naturalism as a hobby, particularly keeping insects and spiders (ants, beetles, various native spiders, giant cockroaches, millipedes, I even raised a dragonfly in a fish tank once). A few years later my wife helped to understand physics, a subject which had alluded me throughout formal education, and particularly theories around relativity, light-speed, and time. A few years ago I discovered the Literary Framework view of the Genesis (A third way I had no idea existed). As a result, these three areas of my life crashed together into a growing sense of cognitive dissonance between what I'd be taught and believed, and what I was seeing in my hobby, reading about Genesis 1, and discovering about the universe.

Recently that dissonance has gotten so great that I need to do something about it. Hence my desire to explore the other side of the argument. Granted, one could hold to a literary framework view of Genesis 1 and still hold to YEC, but it strikes me that it also opens up views on the age of the universe and God's processes in creating life that I previously believed were off limits.

At the very least I'll come out of the exploration convinced that one's view on creation is not a gospel issue (ie. answer in Genesis) nor a challenge to the authority of scripture (MacArthur).

I say all that, aware of the guidelines, not to start a discussion but more to help inform any further recommendations.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1051747#Comment_1051747

By way of background, I was saved into a church that with a strong YEC background, attended an Answer in Genesis conference, and read several of Ken Hams books. I continued in my YEC position all through seminary and for serval years after that.

About 9 years ago I started to get into amateur naturalism as a hobby, particularly keeping insects and spiders (ants, beetles, various native spiders, giant cockroaches, millipedes, I even raised a dragonfly in a fish tank once). A few years later my wife helped to understand physics, a subject which had alluded me throughout formal education, and particularly theories around relativity, light-speed, and time. A few years ago I discovered the Literary Framework view of the Genesis (A third way I had no idea existed). As a result, these three areas of my life crashed together into a growing sense of cognitive dissonance between what I'd be taught and believed, and what I was seeing in my hobby, reading about Genesis 1, and discovering about the universe.

Recently that dissonance has gotten so great that I need to do something about it. Hence my desire to explore the other side of the argument. Granted, one could hold to a literary framework view of Genesis 1 and still hold to YEC, but it strikes me that it also opens up views on the age of the universe and God's processes in creating life that I previously believed were off limits.

At the very least I'll come out of the exploration convinced that one's view on creation is not a gospel issue (ie. answer in Genesis) nor a challenge to the authority of scripture (MacArthur).

Given your background, having learned from Ken Ham and then come to question what he taught you, you might be interested in the series of well-researched and insightful blog posts by Ian Panth, wherein he answers Ken Ham and Answers in Genesis.

https://popchrist.com/ken-ham-and-answers-in-genesis-posts/

Ian Panth has a Masters degree in Old Testament from Regent College (where I got to know him) and an MA in Theology and Ethics from Baylor.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1051752#Comment_1051752

Given your background, having learned from Ken Ham and then come to question what he taught you, you might be interested in the series of well-researched and insightful blog posts by Ian Panth, wherein he answers Ken Ham and Answers in Genesis.

https://popchrist.com/ken-ham-and-answers-in-genesis-posts/

Ian Panth has a Masters degree in Old Testament from Regent College (where I got to know him) and an MA in Theology and Ethics from Baylor.

Thanks, Rosie, this is right up my street! His article on AiG and Humean radical scepticism is both interesting and thought-provoking.

Paul

Hands down the most comprehensive up to date EC/TE book out there is "Understanding Scientific Theories of Origins: Cosmology, geology, and biology in Christian Perspective. The book was developed for an integrative course taught at Wheaton College. John Walton's chiefly responsible for the theological perspectives. I am very glad to see that Logos is publishing this. One warning though: it very much reads like the textbook it is designed to be. But on the positive side, there is no other book that combines (and accepts) the latest standard scientific theories in cosmology, geology and biology and then asks what do we make of this theologically. https://www.logos.com/product/168948/understanding-scientific-theories-of-origins-cosmology-geology-and-biology-in-christian-perspective There are reviews of the book on Amazon and I am sure you can find other reviews as well. This is really the best resource on EC/TE that has been sponsored by Biologos in my opinion.

As far as OEC, I echo the comments about Hugh Ross and Reasons to Believe. Just as Biologos is the key organization for TE, Reasons to Believe is the key one for OEC.

Mattillo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1051967#Comment_1051967

Given your background, having learned from Ken Ham and then come to question what he taught you, you might be interested in the series of well-researched and insightful blog posts by Ian Panth, wherein he answers Ken Ham and Answers in Genesis.

https://popchrist.com/ken-ham-and-answers-in-genesis-posts/

Ian Panth has a Masters degree in Old Testament from Regent College (where I got to know him) and an MA in Theology and Ethics from Baylor.

Thanks, Rosie, this is right up my street! His article on AiG and Humean radical scepticism is both interesting and thought-provoking.

This book isn't in Logos but I think it gives a really good scientific look at 6-day creation: https://usstore.creation.com/the-genesis-account

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1052005#Comment_1052005

Hands down the most comprehensive up to date EC/TE book out there is "Understanding Scientific Theories of Origins: Cosmology, geology, and biology in Christian Perspective. The book was developed for an integrative course taught at Wheaton College. John Walton's chiefly responsible for the theological perspectives. I am very glad to see that Logos is publishing this. One warning though: it very much reads like the textbook it is designed to be. But on the positive side, there is no other book that combines (and accepts) the latest standard scientific theories in cosmology, geology and biology and then asks what do we make of this theologically. https://www.logos.com/product/168948/understanding-scientific-theories-of-origins-cosmology-geology-and-biology-in-christian-perspective There are reviews of the book on Amazon and I am sure you can find other reviews as well. This is really the best resource on EC/TE that has been sponsored by Biologos in my opinion.

As far as OEC, I echo the comments about Hugh Ross and Reasons to Believe. Just as Biologos is the key organization for TE, Reasons to Believe is the key one for OEC.

Thanks, Paul, this looks like an excellent resource, as does the set that it is a part of: https://www.logos.com/product/170970/ivp-studies-in-creation

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1052092#Comment_1052092

This book isn't in Logos but I think it gives a really good scientific look at 6-day creation: https://usstore.creation.com/the-genesis-account

Hi Mattillo, thank you for the suggestion. However, being well versed in the arguments supporting 6-day Creation I'm not looking for those kinds of resources at this time. As my OP indicated I'm specifically looking for "books which argue FOR Old Earth Creation, Evolutionary Creation, and/or Theistic Evolution".

Do you have any recommendations within that space?

Blessings, Liam

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1052162#Comment_1052162

Morning everyone,

First of all, a huge thank you to all of you in helping with recommendations, I wish I could buy them all!

In the end, this is what I've purchased:

The Lost World of Adam and Eve by John Walton (picked this up on Audible in the end).
How I Changed My Mind About Evolution: Evangelicals Reflect on Faith and Science

I'm also saving up my pennies for the IVP Studies in Creation series which looks phenomenal in size and scope.

I'll also be reading the blog articles at https://popchrist.com/ken-ham-and-answers-in-genesis-posts/ (Thanks, Rosie). Whilst occasionally the writer does come across a little mocking, the content he has produced is excellent. Start with 'Ken Ham's Humean Skepticism' and 'Why Ham is really Bacon'. His series on early Christian writers is also fascinating, especially, Augustine.

Finally, based on my reading so far, I'd suggest avoiding Controversy of the Ages by Cabel and Rasor.

First, they couch the books primary argument in the authority and inerrancy of Scripture. I'm convinced this is a massive red herring which obscures rather than adds enquiry.

Second, the chapters on Darwin's life and works have very few (any?) that seems to me, frankly, shocking considering that Origin, Voyages, his Autobiography, and correspondence are all readily available. Third, and finally, the section on the impact and reception of Origin and the Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection is contained exclusively to the US, with any theologian who accepted theory being conveniently written off as a liberal. That may be in the history of reception in the US (maybe), I doubt this has been the history of the church elsewhere at the time.

I hope that helps anyone else asking similar questions to myself now or in the future.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1052359#Comment_1052359

Third, and finally, the section on the impact and reception of Origin and the Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection is contained exclusively to the US, with any theologian who accepted theory being conveniently written off as a liberal. That may be in the history of reception in the US (maybe), I doubt this has been the history of the church elsewhere at the time.

I have a good friend in England, an evangelical, who is a historian of Christianity, a professor at Oxford and Regent College. She tells me the whole "creation vs. evolution" thing is a uniquely U.S. phenomenon. At least among evangelicals in England, the science of evolution is not viewed as incompatible with belief in a Creator God and taking the Bible seriously as God's Word. They don't have all the baggage of the Scopes Trial and the years of entrenchment of the YEC mindset and find that battle between faith and science to be quite puzzling.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1052359#Comment_1052359

First, they couch the books primary argument in the authority and inerrancy of Scripture. I'm convinced this is a massive red herring which obscures rather than adds enquiry.

Not disagreeing with you, or Rosie.

But a 'red herring' seems the same as calling 'liberal'?

Our little burg (Japanese visitors call it a village) gets blanketed with a top-quality paper and colour brochure written each quarter, with an annual cost of about $50,000, by the couple in the church down the stream from us. It's professional, eaking out every hint of error in science, especially as regards geology (aka evolution). The gentleman is nice, fun to chat with, and certainly no one is going to tell him 'no'. He's totally convinced ... no games.

The problem is, he makes it almost impossible to start a conversation regarding salvation with neighbors, since you first have take care of the folks' angry quarterly trip to the trash can.

Logos has some good greek and roman histories (prepubs!); the cosmos was quite 'liberal' regarding new discoveries that questioned the gods. But Jesus, or later NT writers didn't seem to care yea/nea ... apparently not a big issue when salvation was the criticality.

OT-ish: The apocrypha show this principle, if you read it closely ... science had arrived. Doctors!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1052388#Comment_1052388

I have a good friend in England, an evangelical, who is a historian of Christianity, a professor at Oxford and Regent College. She tells me the whole "creation vs. evolution" thing is a uniquely U.S. phenomenon. At least among evangelicals in England, the science of evolution is not viewed as incompatible with belief in a Creator God and taking the Bible seriously as God's Word. They don't have all the baggage of the Scopes Trial and the years of entrenchment of the YEC mindset and find that battle between faith and science to be quite puzzling.

Hi Rosie. I'm from the Uk myself, and, yes I imagine that is the case in the main of church circles. Certainly, NT Wright, who is a prominent and influential evangelical Anglican Bishop, sees no issue with Evolution per se.

However, UK Conservative Evangelical Christianity is increasingly being influenced by its US counterpart, AiG, YEC, etc. Among conservative evangelical church leaders (or at the least those I've known) YEC is thought of as /the/ biblically faithful reading of Genesis 1-2. This was also the accepted view of many of the charismatic folk and Pentecostals I new in seminary (7 years ago). Whilst not to the extent where is a test of orthodoxy, some might still suggest that not having a YEC position is a failure to 'take God at his Word.'

That said our church's young people (especially those 15+) almost exclusively believe that evolution is scientifically true and think YEC is totally bizarre. I also imagine that the vast majority of their parents wonder what all the fuss is about.

I say all that not to disagree with your learned friend, simply wanted to offer another perspective on the lay of the land :-)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1052394#Comment_1052394

I have a good friend in England, an evangelical, who is a historian of Christianity, a professor at Oxford and Regent College. She tells me the whole "creation vs. evolution" thing is a uniquely U.S. phenomenon. At least among evangelicals in England, the science of evolution is not viewed as incompatible with belief in a Creator God and taking the Bible seriously as God's Word. They don't have all the baggage of the Scopes Trial and the years of entrenchment of the YEC mindset and find that battle between faith and science to be quite puzzling.

Hi Rosie. I'm from the Uk myself, and, yes I imagine that is the case in the main of church circles. Certainly, NT Wright, who is a prominent and influential evangelical Anglican Bishop, sees no issue with Evolution per se.

However, UK Conservative Evangelical Christianity is increasingly being influenced by its US counterpart, AiG, YEC, etc. Among conservative evangelical church leaders (or at the least those I've known) YEC is thought of as /the/ biblically faithful reading of Genesis 1-2. This was also the accepted view of many of the charismatic folk and Pentecostals I new in seminary (7 years ago). Whilst not to the extent where is a test of orthodoxy, some might still suggest that not having a YEC position is a failure to 'take God at his Word.'

That said our church's young people (especially those 15+) almost exclusively believe that evolution is scientifically true and think YEC is totally bizarre. I also imagine that the vast majority of their parents wonder what all the fuss is about.

I say all that not to disagree with your learned friend, simply wanted to offer another perspective on the lay of the land :-)

Thanks for that other perspective! Things are often more complex than they appear to be at a surface glance.

Nicholas Roland

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1052005#Comment_1052005

Hands down the most comprehensive up to date EC/TE book out there is "Understanding Scientific Theories of Origins: Cosmology, geology, and biology in Christian Perspective. The book was developed for an integrative course taught at Wheaton College. John Walton's chiefly responsible for the theological perspectives. I am very glad to see that Logos is publishing this. One warning though: it very much reads like the textbook it is designed to be. But on the positive side, there is no other book that combines (and accepts) the latest standard scientific theories in cosmology, geology and biology and then asks what do we make of this theologically. https://www.logos.com/product/168948/understanding-scientific-theories-of-origins-cosmology-geology-and-biology-in-christian-perspective There are reviews of the book on Amazon and I am sure you can find other reviews as well. This is really the best resource on EC/TE that has been sponsored by Biologos in my opinion.

As far as OEC, I echo the comments about Hugh Ross and Reasons to Believe. Just as Biologos is the key organization for TE, Reasons to Believe is the key one for OEC.

I just want to second the recommendation of this resource. I'm only a little ways through it, but already it strikes me as a remarkably helpful resource, with John Walton contributing the biblical/theological comments in conversation with 4 scientific disciplines. Really very good. Glad it's coming to Logos!

SineNomine

Liam, you may find https://www.thomisticevolution.org/ and related resources quite helpful. It's led by a Dominican priest (i.e., a Catholic priest of the religious order of St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Albert the Great, and of course St. Dominic) who earned his PhD in biology at MIT before becoming a Dominican; he has since acquired a doctorate in moral theology from Fribourg in Switzerland. His three principal coworkers also hold relevant doctorates--philosophy (St. Louis), physics (Stanford), and theology (Fribourg). The four of them jointly wrote https://www.clunymedia.com/product/thomistic-evolution/. Their position on the historicity of Adam and Eve may be found here. The Thomistic Institute podcast also has relevant and enlightening talks by the above and others on evolution, Darwinism, Adam and Eve, etc.

You will find that some of the starting points of these folks differ in very real ways than your own; their argumentation may also differ from what you're used to. I expect that some of these differences will help you strengthen your own understanding of matters connected to evolution and creation in ways you will in time find valuable.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1052877#Comment_1052877

You will find that some of the starting points of these folks differ in very real ways than your own; their argumentation may also differ from what you're used to. I expect that some of these differences will help you strengthen your own understanding of matters connected to evolution and creation in ways you will in time find valuable.

Hi SineNomine, thank you for sharing this. You are correct that they are coming from a different starting point. Surprisingly, one thing I've noticed listening to and reading some of the content is that I've been influenced by post-enlightenment materialism than I ever would have imagined.

The Thomistic approach is something that is also very different from what I am used to and I'm very much looking forward to engaging with their material some more. I'm certain there is much to learn here.

Thanks again, Liam

Beloved Amodeo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1053363#Comment_1053363

I recommend a work by William A. Dembski as a seminal addition to the Intelligent Design conversation that argues very persuasively that information is the "primary stuff of the world" and not matter. I encourage you to peruse professor Dembski's Wikipedia page to learn a bit about him and where he fits in the discussion. The work is not in Logos and is a costly, but not out of reach Kindle book; Being as Communion: A Metaphysics of Information https://www.amazon.com/Being-Communion-Metaphysics-Information-Religion-ebook/dp/B00NMNY0CQ/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=Dembski&qid=1560895326&s=digital-text&sr=1-5

Hamilton Ramos

Interesting article and it has reference to resources:

https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/creation.cfm

After your studies can you share what you think is the most plausible view in your opinion?

Thanks.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1056237#Comment_1056237

Hi everyone,

So it has been five months since I first asked the lovely people of Logos Forum for book recommendations. A lot has happened in that time, not least being asked by BioLogos to write my journey and some reflections into a Reformation Day article. If you‘d like to, you can read it here:

https://biologos.org/personal-stories/why-im-reforming-my-views-on-evolution

Blessings, Liam

ps. There is even a sneaky reference to this thread!

J. Remington Bowling

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1052388#Comment_1052388

Edit: Realized I was responding to a post that was several months old... Deleting comment to not dredge up an old conversation.

SineNomine

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1073805#Comment_1073805

Thank you for sharing your article, Liam. I'm glad that this thread was helpful to you in your studies.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1073879#Comment_1073879

There are some interesting books on sale with big discounts at present looking at issues raised in this post.

This book is reduced from around $60 to $20.

https://www.logos.com/product/148114/theistic-evolution-a-scientific-philosophical-and-theological-critique

This is only $1.99 at present - normally $32.

https://www.logos.com/product/49131/adam-the-fall-and-original-sin-theological-biblical-and-scientific-perspectives

And this is reduced from around $30 to $10:

https://www.logos.com/product/149901/science-and-faith-friends-or-foes

The first one has been on my wishlist since publication but I couldn't justify the cost.

The two more expensive books are on sale until June 15th I understand.

Rick Ausdahl

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1103108#Comment_1103108

Thanks for the updates Paul.

JohnB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1051484#Comment_1051484

On the YEC side, I've found Leonard Brand's book to be very honest. One of the few YEC authors who is not ashamed to also present the evidence that contradict their view. https://www.logos.com/product/30992/faith-reason-and-earth-history-2nd-ed (hint: a big monopolistic bully that starts with a has this ebook for free).

The bully one is the 3rd edition whereas Logos appears to be the 2nd edition. I was interested to note that one of the writers was :-

"• To encourage creationists to respect scientists and to see the value of scientific data, even though we may disagree with significant parts of science’s interpretation of earth history" Sarcastic creationists really wind me up and is often counter productive.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1103108#Comment_1103108

There are some interesting books on sale with big discounts at present looking at issues raised in this post.

This book is reduced from around $60 to $20.

https://www.logos.com/product/148114/theistic-evolution-a-scientific-philosophical-and-theological-critique

This is only $1.99 at present - normally $32.

https://www.logos.com/product/49131/adam-the-fall-and-original-sin-theological-biblical-and-scientific-perspectives

And this is reduced from around $30 to $10:

https://www.logos.com/product/149901/science-and-faith-friends-or-foes

The first one has been on my wishlist since publication but I couldn't justify the cost.

The two more expensive books are on sale until June 15th I understand.

Thanks for posting these Paul. I picked up the second title myself And looking into the third.

As for the first book, many in the YEC and ID camps have hailed it as a bit of a home run, but as Deb Haarsma has pointed out, the authors fall at the first hurdle (accurately define TE). As a result the authors are kind of responding to a form of TE that probably doesn’t even exist among Christians who hold to TE/YEC. I say all that not to start a discussion about theology, but to flag up the review: https://biologos.org/articles/a-flawed-mirror-a-response-to-the-book-theistic-evolution

Hope you find it useful. Thanks again for sharing.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1103180#Comment_1103180

There are some interesting books on sale with big discounts at present looking at issues raised in this post.

This book is reduced from around $60 to $20.

https://www.logos.com/product/148114/theistic-evolution-a-scientific-philosophical-and-theological-critique

This is only $1.99 at present - normally $32.

https://www.logos.com/product/49131/adam-the-fall-and-original-sin-theological-biblical-and-scientific-perspectives

And this is reduced from around $30 to $10:

https://www.logos.com/product/149901/science-and-faith-friends-or-foes

The first one has been on my wishlist since publication but I couldn't justify the cost.

The two more expensive books are on sale until June 15th I understand.

Thanks for posting these Paul. I picked up the second title myself And looking into the third.

As for the first book, many in the YEC and ID camps have hailed it as a bit of a home run, but as Deb Haarsma has pointed out, the authors fall at the first hurdle (accurately define TE). As a result the authors are kind of responding to a form of TE that probably doesn’t even exist among Christians who hold to TE/YEC. I say all that not to start a discussion about theology, but to flag up the review: https://biologos.org/articles/a-flawed-mirror-a-response-to-the-book-theistic-evolution

Hope you find it useful. Thanks again for sharing.

Thanks Liam

That's helpful. I've started reading the first one and my interest is more the authors views of the science.

Mattillo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1103166#Comment_1103166

On the YEC side, I've found Leonard Brand's book to be very honest. One of the few YEC authors who is not ashamed to also present the evidence that contradict their view. https://www.logos.com/product/30992/faith-reason-and-earth-history-2nd-ed (hint: a big monopolistic bully that starts with a has this ebook for free).
The bully one is the 3rd edition whereas Logos appears to be the 2nd edition. I was interested to note that one of the writers was :-
"• To encourage creationists to respect scientists and to see the value of scientific data, even though we may disagree with significant parts of science’s interpretation of earth history" Sarcastic creationists really wind me up and is often counter productive.

You can get this book for free in multiple formats here; nothing illegal

https://www.grisda.org/faith-reason-and-earth-history

https://www.adventistlearningcommunity.com/faith-reason-earth-history

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1103199#Comment_1103199

On the YEC side, I've found Leonard Brand's book to be very honest. One of the few YEC authors who is not ashamed to also present the evidence that contradict their view. https://www.logos.com/product/30992/faith-reason-and-earth-history-2nd-ed (hint: a big monopolistic bully that starts with a has this ebook for free).
The bully one is the 3rd edition whereas Logos appears to be the 2nd edition. I was interested to note that one of the writers was :-
"• To encourage creationists to respect scientists and to see the value of scientific data, even though we may disagree with significant parts of science’s interpretation of earth history" Sarcastic creationists really wind me up and is often counter productive.

You can get this book for free in multiple formats here; nothing illegal

https://www.grisda.org/faith-reason-and-earth-history

https://www.adventistlearningcommunity.com/faith-reason-earth-history

Thanks for that.

Mattillo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1103200#Comment_1103200

You’re welcome! One of these days I’ll throw it through Calibre and make a PBB of it