Catena Aurea – The Golden Chain (Community Pricing)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/109572#Comment_109572

Exactly! I can't wait till we get it over the line.

Jonathan West

OK I'm in!

Juanita

I am staggered that this resource has not sprinted into PrePub. Is it the Latin title that puts people off?

It shouldn't. It isn't in Latin. It was translated by John Henry Newman who wrote the famous hymn Praise to the holiest in the height. Newman's command of English was masterly (we studied his Apologia Pro Vita Sua in our English literature course at the University of St. Andrews in the 1960s), so this is not a stilted translation, but a piece of real literature. Nevertheless, Newman doesn't hide the real gold in Aquinas' work – he polishes it.

Here's what Wikipedia says about it.

A catena (from Latin catena, a chain) is a form of biblical commentary, verse by verse, made up entirely of excerpts from earlier Biblical commentators, each introduced with the name of the author, and with such minor adjustments of words to allow the whole to form a continuous commentary. … The most famous of the medieval Latin compilations of this kind is that of Thomas Aquinas, generally known as the Catena Aurea (Golden Catena) and containing excerpts from some eighty Greek and Latin commentators on the Gospels.

Aquinas was a real forerunner of the Reformation. "Thomas Aquinas has also profoundly influenced the history of Protestantism. He wrote prolifically on the relationship between faith and reason, as well as the theological and philosophical issues which defined the Reformation."

All this can be yours for a measly $20 for all 8 volumes with Logos searchability and integration into your library all thrown in as well.

If you need more persuading have a look at the link. http://www.logos.com/communitypricing/details/5216

Put in a bid. You'll be glad you did!

Alan, thanks for pushing this. It really is a tremendous value for the price. I think people just do not know very much about it or it would have been published by now. It will ge there!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/109587#Comment_109587

I wonder,

how would this compare to the ACC series by Oden? (certainly cheaper as a CP!)

Alan Macgregor

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/109592#Comment_109592

I have some Oden & Hall in print and found them helpful but they are far from seamless, whereas Catena is that – a chain of integrated references. Obviously, Catena is not as technical nor as exhaustive, because Aquinas didn't have the Latin and Greek databases that Oden & Hall had access, particularly TLG (Thesaurus Linguae Graecae). But c'mon, Dan, this is worth having in its own right, written by someone who was steeped in Latin – he thought and wrote and spoke in Latin and he lived 800 years nearer the writings he was using than Oden and Hall. If you've looked at the sample pages you'll get a feel of what I am getting at. Just read this over on the Parable of the Wedding Banquet in MAtthew 22.

Don't get me wrong, Oden and Hall are very good but Aquinas is a standout.

Every blessing

Alan

William Baptiste SFO

May the Grace and Peace of Jesus be with you all on Logos Forums!

Jesus, the Living Word of God dwelt richly in the hearts of the Early Church Fathers who by His Spirit helped clarify and define the fundamentals of Christian faith in the early centuries of Christianity. This "Golden Chain" of their commentary upon the Written Word of God in the Gospels is a precious family heirloom of God's Adopted Family the Church, which deserves to be read together with newer commentaries as we, their younger brothers and sisters in Christ, study the Written Word of God they loved and studied so much from their vantage point so near the beginnings of our faith.

I am excited that it looks like this "Golden Chain" should soon go into production. I encourage all who are "on the fence" to place their bid now to ensure this happens.

May the LORD bless and keep all of you in His Love.

NetworkGeek

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/109592#Comment_109592

I wonder,

how would this compare to the ACC series by Oden? (certainly cheaper as a CP!)

Oden and Hall are 20th century theologians, to me the appeal of the Aquinas book is that the early Church Fathers whose writing comprise the Catena are all within a generation, two at most from Jesus himself! What they write and believe is about as close to first hand as we can get outside the Bible. By the same way that it's nice to have Bibles in original languages and which try hard to preserve literal translation so 21st century readers can discern on their own what the original author really meant, I think Catena provides the same opportunity to pick the brain of the earliest Christian theologians that we have access to.

This book is quite an opportunity for us, a bargain even at $40 if you ask me.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/109581#Comment_109581

OK I'm in!

Yay! And there was much rejoicing in heaven...

Come on everyone else -- just $20 for this excellent set of 8 volumes. That's less than $3 per volume. It's what you might pay for a dinner out at a restaurant. Skip the fancy meal and dig into some real meat of gospel commentary by our esteemed forbears, the Church Fathers.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/109738#Comment_109738

I wonder,

how would this compare to the ACC series by Oden? (certainly cheaper as a CP!)

Oden and Hall are 20th century theologians, to me the appeal of the Aquinas book is that the early Church Fathers whose writing comprise the Catena are all within a generation, two at most from Jesus himself! What they write and believe is about as close to first hand as we can get outside the Bible. By the same way that it's nice to have Bibles in original languages and which try hard to preserve literal translation so 21st century readers can discern on their own what the original author really meant, I think Catena provides the same opportunity to pick the brain of the earliest Christian theologians that we have access to.

This book is quite an opportunity for us, a bargain even at $40 if you ask me.

just to push the limits here: Aquinas was not within 2 generations. Maybe those he quoted were, certainly within 1 or 2 centuries, maybe 3 or 4. But the ACC series also quotes those guys, doesn't it? That was my point. They quote the early fathers . . . and what they say on passages. But not knowing either very well (ACC or Catena), it seems to me that Aquinas' work should be at least as good, if not better: cheaper, put together by an expert, one who was closer in time to them, etc. But I don't know: does he have more quotes? Does ACC? Do they pull from different periods? I guess I could look this up. Just wondering if someone had a quick answer. I have ordered Catena Aurea, regardless. [Y]

David Ames

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/109599#Comment_109599

We hope that every reference gets linked to the writings of the 'Fathers' so we can read the short comment in context.

Alan Macgregor

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/109758#Comment_109758

We hope that every reference gets linked to the writings of the 'Fathers' so we can read the short comment in context.

I would like to see this great resources as a multi-volume commentary, in the commentary section of the passage guide and linked to the passage of the NT that we are reading. How useful it would be to see what Chrysostom, Augustine, Anselm, etc. made of a particular passage, as we delve into the Word, seeking to break the bread to feed our souls! Ah!

NetworkGeek

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/109755#Comment_109755

just to push the limits here: Aquinas was not within 2 generations. Maybe those he quoted were, certainly within 1 or 2 centuries, maybe 3 or 4. But the ACC series also quotes those guys, doesn't it? That was my point. They quote the early fathers . . . and what they say on passages. But not knowing either very well (ACC or Catena), it seems to me that Aquinas' work should be at least as good, if not better: cheaper, put together by an expert, one who was closer in time to them, etc. But I don't know: does he have more quotes? Does ACC? Do they pull from different periods? I guess I could look this up. Just wondering if someone had a quick answer. I have ordered Catena Aurea, regardless.

Aquinas didn't really write the text, is my understanding, he compiled it from ECF writings. That's what I was referring to, the ECF were within 2 generations. From what I have seen on the Internet, the text is not Aquinas' (although he is no lightweight either[:)]

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/109592#Comment_109592

how would this compare to the ACC series by Oden? (certainly cheaper as a CP!)

ACC has headings on each excerpt from the Fathers, in effect leading one to a particular interpretation of the text. Aquinas lets the Fathers stand on their own. ACC seems to me, although I have not objectively tested it, to be less willing to include "discredited" views of Church Fathers. Both have their place. I was excited when the first volumes of the ACC came out - they represent a major step towards being able to discuss theological issues understanding what each side means by a term.

Michael G. Halpern

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/109773#Comment_109773

After all the arm twisting...count me in too!

Alan Macgregor

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/109773#Comment_109773

Aquinas didn't really write the text, is my understanding, he compiled it from ECF writings.

Yes, that is undoubtedly true but don't underestimate the job that Aquinas did – a job that few could have done in his day – and a job that has taken until this point when we have computerised databases to search, as Oden and Hall acknowledge. Aquinas was undoubtedly selective, and like the best of editors he let his sources do the talking, but (and it is a big but) he placed them in the order he did to arrange an exquisite work of scholarship which has stood the test of time.

This text is not just an historical curiosity, a representative of a school of commentary, in both Greek and Latin traditions, which ran for the best part of six hundred years in its period of finest flowering. This resource is a living commentary of how the scriptures were read and understood by people who, because they were closer culturally to the human writers of the New Testament, had insights which will be immensely valuable to us, as we seek to understand and immerse ourselves in the Word of God.

Darcy S. Van Horn

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/109796#Comment_109796

OK. I'm in too. Thanks, Alan, for the push!

Blessings.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/109796#Comment_109796

This text is not just an historical curiosity, a representative of a school of commentary, in both Greek and Latin traditions, which ran for the best part of six hundred years in its period of finest flowering. This resource is a living commentary of how the scriptures were read and understood by people who, because they were closer culturally to the human writers of the New Testament, had insights which will be immensely valuable to us, as we seek to understand and immerse ourselves in the Word of God.

Alan, this is a great testament to the value of this work. Thanks! I'm already in, but looking foward to it going into production. Let's keep pushing.

Dave Hooton

I am staggered that this resource has not sprinted into PrePub. Is it the Latin title that puts people off?

I'm not sure how I sprinted over the Latin title but I've been in this since December '09. Another way to get it into prepub is to increase our bids to $30!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/109821#Comment_109821

I am staggered that this resource has not sprinted into PrePub. Is it the Latin title that puts people off?

I'm not sure how I sprinted over the Latin title but I've been in this since December '09. Another way to get it into prepub is to increase our bids to $30!

that is where mine is at. Honestly, $40 would be fine with me, too.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/109775#Comment_109775

how would this compare to the ACC series by Oden? (certainly cheaper as a CP!)

ACC has headings on each excerpt from the Fathers, in effect leading one to a particular interpretation of the text. Aquinas lets the Fathers stand on their own. ACC seems to me, although I have not objectively tested it, to be less willing to include "discredited" views of Church Fathers. Both have their place. I was excited when the first volumes of the ACC came out - they represent a major step towards being able to discuss theological issues understanding what each side means by a term.

Thank you, MJ, that clears it up somewhat. Do you mean "leading to a particular interpretation" of the text of the FATHER or of the Word?

Jeremy White

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/109821#Comment_109821

Another way to get it into prepub is to increase our bids to $30!

It's even better than that - all would take is for all bidders to be at $24 or more tand that would be enough. Alternatively if just the people sitting at $20 raised their bid to $32 that also would put to 100%

Almost a third of all bidders have clicked less than $20 so one would think that might be a good hunting ground for raised bids ?

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/109829#Comment_109829

Do you mean "leading to a particular interpretation" of the text of the FATHER or of the Word?

Of the Father, primarily but take for example Romans 6:4 is given a heading "Buried into Death, Walking in Newness of Life" ... the titles for the Fathers "The Unclean Soul Actively Sinful Until Reborn"; "Baptism into Death"; "Entombed in Water"; "Baptism a Figure of Resurrection", "Spiritually Cleansed"; "Walking in Newness of Life"; "Renouncing Our Former Life" ... it's not that the headings are 'wrong', it's that they prepare you to see a particular point in the text rather than letting the text speak for itself.

I much prefer the approach of Jurgen (Faith of the Early Fathers), another wonderful patristic anthology where the organization is by doctrine but within that organization the Fathers are left to speak for themselves ... although one can justly complain that the selections are too short in Jurgen. BTW I thought I'd found both Jurgen and Ott in Logos but I'm not finding Jurgen now.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/109821#Comment_109821

Another way to get it into prepub is to increase our bids to $30!

I already increased my to $40. I think it is a steal at nearly any of the prices listed.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/109986#Comment_109986

thank you again, MJ. That makes sense. Headings can be quite misleading. Just seeing the different headings of Matt 24 is case in point for me.

Roger Feenstra

All this can be yours for a measly $20 for all 8 volumes

Agreed. I put a bid in for $40.

I am staggered that this resource has not sprinted into PrePub

I thought it would have moved up faster too. Thanks for the info...even if it is from Wikipedia

Robert

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/110008#Comment_110008

Thank you for all the great recommendations. I hadn't known what this series was (and yes the name scared me away) until reading your comments and then looking up more info. This sounds like a great resource at a great price (now looking at $20, which is where I just put my bid).

William

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/110008#Comment_110008

Thanks for the info...even if it is from Wikipedia

Well, I am not about to start singing Wikipedia's praises, but, it is not junk. I have read some of their postings on math and they are correct. You must go to Wikipedia with some foreknowledge and be able to think for yourself. However, I think you have to do that everywhere on earth. There is not a professor's or pastor's office that I would go to expecting to hear something without going home to verify it and study it further. Now, they might be right but they might be wrong. A person needs to always think for themselves. I would say this is the point of Logos software. We hear stuff all the time. We buy these libraries of books to read everything possible and think for ourselves.

William

Roger: I am not trying to call you out here. Wikipedia can't always be trusted and you may have seen more wrong than right. I have seen a fair bit more right than wrong. I certainly see your side of things because some of the wrong I have seen is just out of this world wrong.

Kevin Becker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/110008#Comment_110008

It's great to see this thing rising toward 100%!

Keep those new bids coming! $18 bids and below, how 'bout revising them upward?

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/109880#Comment_109880

It's even better than that - all would take is for all bidders to be at $24 or more tand that would be enough. Alternatively if just the people sitting at $20 raised their bid to $32 that also would put to 100%

OK. I've raised my bid to $30.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/110128#Comment_110128

It's even better than that - all would take is for all bidders to be at $24 or more tand that would be enough. Alternatively if just the people sitting at $20 raised their bid to $32 that also would put to 100%

OK. I've raised my bid to $30.

Dave, I apprecate your move. However people at $20 raising their bids won't make any difference to how soon we reach production cost, because the dot at 20 represents all those willing to pay 20, which includes those who bid higher. So someone already at 20 moving higher will not raise the dot at 20 at all; it will only raise the higher cost price dot a bit. The dot at 20 is already at highest in percentage of production cost. So we need to work at getting more people at 20, not more at one of the higher prices.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/110131#Comment_110131

It's even better than that - all would take is for all bidders to be at $24 or more tand that would be enough. Alternatively if just the people sitting at $20 raised their bid to $32 that also would put to 100%

OK. I've raised my bid to $30.

Dave, I apprecate your move. However people at $20 raising their bids won't make any difference to how soon we reach production cost, because the dot at 20 represents all those willing to pay 20, which includes those who bid higher. So someone already at 20 moving higher will not raise the dot at 20 at all; it will only raise the higher cost price dot a bit. The dot at 20 is already at highest in percentage of production cost. So we need to work at getting more people at 20, not more at one of the higher prices.

But Rosie, if EVERYBODY raised it to $30, that means a sum larger than everybody at $20, and it could represent the sum needed to go into production. So, raising toe $30 won't help the $20 bid, but it might be enough to get this puppy into production, and signal to the fence sitters to get this at a good deal, thus lowering $30 to . . . $20. Peace

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/110138#Comment_110138

But Rosie, if EVERYBODY raised it to $30, that means a sum larger than everybody at $20, and it could represent the sum needed to go into production. So, raising toe $30 won't help the $20 bid, but it might be enough to get this puppy into production, and signal to the fence sitters to get this at a good deal, thus lowering $30 to . . . $20. Peace

True, but getting EVERYBODY to raise to $30 would be harder than getting everybody who is sitting less than $20 to raise it to 20.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/110139#Comment_110139

But Rosie, if EVERYBODY raised it to $30, that means a sum larger than everybody at $20, and it could represent the sum needed to go into production. So, raising toe $30 won't help the $20 bid, but it might be enough to get this puppy into production, and signal to the fence sitters to get this at a good deal, thus lowering $30 to . . . $20. Peace

True, but getting EVERYBODY to raise to $30 would be harder than getting everybody who is sitting less than $20 to raise it to 20.

it's easier to give birth than to raise the dead . . .

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/110143#Comment_110143

as long as people are throwing there bid in at $20 or higher it is going to push us closer and closer to the line so let's get it done! (i love to see that dot raise higher!)

Jeremy White

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/110270#Comment_110270

If all current bidders raise to at least $20 that would get it to about 97.5% so there would still need to be some "new blood" needed. However, it looks like in the last 24 hours enough new bidders have come in to reduce the best possible price down from $24 to $22.

All it takes is a little bit of promotion to make people aware of the title and tell us why it might be useful and you start seeing progress, IT worked for George Mueller Collection - don't see why it wouldn't work for Catena Aurea.- or even Barnes Notes for that matter (although that's going to take longer)

lostlogik

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/110364#Comment_110364

Well I'm new blood for Catena but I've been sitting on Barnes for a while. Likewise Mueller but pleased to see that's now past the post.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/110364#Comment_110364

If all current bidders raise to at least $20 that would get it to about 97.5% so there would still need to be some "new blood" needed. However, it looks like in the last 24 hours enough new bidders have come in to reduce the best possible price down from $24 to $22.

Well that sounds pretty reasonable.

Sharon

I've been in from the beginning at $40.

Thanks for your PR, Alan (and everybody). It reallys helps people to consider bidding.

I especially like to watch Jeremy come in with his amazing "math & stats" notices and updates! Jeremy, you are amazing! Keep'm coming!