Whole Bible Word study
Hi,
I want to do a whole Bible word study instead of just a NT or OT study. I guess the key link is the usage of the Septuagint. By the way, I don’t know Greek or Hebrew.
Let’s say I am reading the OT. Let’s say I am reading Jeremiah 29:11 in ESV. I want to know all the verses in the Bible (both OT and NT) that uses the underlying Greek Lemma used in the Septuagint for the English word “plans.”
Now, let’s flip it and let’s say I am reading the NT. Let’s say I am reading Romans 8:28. I want to know all the verses in the Bible (both OT and NT) that uses the underlying Greek Lemma behind the English word “purpose.” For identifying the verses in the OT, I am guessing the Septuagint must be used.
What is the best way to accomplish the above using Logos 8?
Ideally, I would like to export all the verses in my ESV translation.
Thank you
Naveen
I believe in a Win-Win-Win God.
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HI Naveen - and welcome to the forums
Naveen Daniel said:Let’s say I am reading the OT. Let’s say I am reading Jeremiah 29:11 in ESV. I want to know all the verses in the Bible (both OT and NT) that uses the underlying Greek Lemma used in the Septuagint for the English word “plans.”
One option is to have both the ESV and LXX open and linked - that way when you change to a different passage in one, the other will track.
Then selecting a word in the ESV will cause the corresponding Greek lemma to be higlighted in the LXX.
Right-click that, select the lemma and run the Bible Word Study Guide
The two translation rings will show how the word is translated in either the ESV NT or the LXX
Clicking the centre of the rings will show all the relevant verses below - clicking a segment will just show those verses.
If you don't know how to do any of the above please advise.
Naveen Daniel said:By the way, I don’t know Greek or Hebrew.
Without knowing the original languages, what is it you are trying to achieve?
If you can provide a bit more detail we might be able to suggest other options
Graham
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Thanks a ton Graham for your prompt response. Much appreciated.
I know why I didn’t think of linking the Septuagint to the ESV. But having done so, for some reason, when I type in Jer 29:11 in the ESV, the Septuagint pulls up Jer 36:11 (not Jer 29:11). This happens with both the Swete and the Rahlfs Septuagint. So I am stuck in ground zero. Any help would be much appreciated.
You had asked “Without knowing the original languages, what is it you are trying to achieve?”
Some background…I understand why people limit Greek word studies to the NT and Hebrew word studies to the OT, but the Bible is Holy Spirit inspired and, hence, effectively single authored by God. Thus any word study needs to cover the entire Bible (is my starting point).
I am interested in studying God’s purpose/plans/aims/goals/intent/design/desire in both the OT and the NT. Specifically, I was trying to see if the Greek word (or lemma or root) underlying “purpose” in Roman 8:28 is the same Greek word (or lemma or root) used in the Septuagint that is translated in English as “plans” in Jeremiah 29:11.
Thanks again.
Naveen
I believe in a Win-Win-Win God.
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Thanks a ton Graham for your prompt response. Much Much appreciated.
I know why I didn’t think of linking the Septuagint to the ESV. But having done so, for some reason, when I type in Jer 29:11 in the ESV, the Septuagint pulls up Jer 36:11 (not Jer 29:11). This happens with both the Swete and the Rahlfs Septuagint. So I am stuck in ground zero. Any help would be much appreciated.
I've posted a screen shot below.
Secondly, you had asked “Without knowing the original languages, what is it you are trying to achieve?”
Some background…I understand why people limit Greek word studies to the NT and Hebrew word studies to the OT, but the Bible is Holy Spirit inspired and, hence, effectively single authored by God. Thus any word study needs to cover the entire Bible (is my starting point).
I am interested in studying God’s purpose/plans/aims/goals/intent/design/desire in both the OT and the NT. Specifically, I was trying to see if the Greek word (or lemma or root) underlying “purpose” in Roman 8:28 is the same Greek word (or lemma or root) used in the Septuagint that is translated in English as “plans” in Jeremiah 29:11.
Thanks a lot.
Naveen
I believe in a Win-Win-Win God.
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Thanks a ton Graham for your prompt response. Much appreciated.
First, thanks for the tip of linking the Septuagint to the ESV. That was very helpful. But having done so, for some reason, when I type in Jer 29:11 in the ESV, the Septuagint pulls up Jer 36:11 (not Jer 29:11). This happens with both the Swete and the Rahlfs Septuagint. So I am stuck in ground zero. I tried to post a screenshot twice, and both times I could not post this reply. Any help would be much appreciated.
Second, you had asked “Without knowing the original languages, what is it you are trying to achieve?”
Some background…I understand why people limit Greek word studies to the NT and Hebrew word studies to the OT, but the Bible is Holy Spirit inspired and, hence, effectively single-authored by God. Thus I feel that any word study needs to cover the entire Bible, not just the OT or just the NT.
I am interested in studying God’s purpose/plans/aims/goals/intent/design/desire in both the OT and the NT. Specifically, I was trying to see if the Greek word (or lemma or root) underlying “purpose” in Roman 8:28 is the same Greek word (or lemma or root) used in the Septuagint that is translated in English as “plans” in Jeremiah 29:11.
Thanks again.
Naveen
I believe in a Win-Win-Win God.
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The sequence of the passages in Jeremiah are not the same in the Masoretic and LXX texts. Logos uses verse maps to take you to the same TEXT rather than the same verse reference.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Naveen Daniel said:
I am interested in studying God’s purpose/plans/aims/goals/intent/design/desire in both the OT and the NT. Specifically, I was trying to see if the Greek word (or lemma or root) underlying “purpose” in Roman 8:28 is the same Greek word (or lemma or root) used in the Septuagint that is translated in English as “plans” in Jeremiah 29:11.
There is no reason to do so. You might as well do a word study on the English... which wouldn’t be of much benefit either. The LXX isn’t any more or less “The Word of God” than the NIV. It is a translation from the original texts.
Similarly, there is no value in doing word studies comparisons of biblical Greek and modern day Greek (or Hebrew). Language, including words, change over time. That is why new translations are needed and we don’t all use a KJV1611
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It is possible to do what you want, but frankly without knowing some of the original languages, you will be in great danger of drawing false conclusions. Consider a resource like Mounce's Greek for the Rest of Us to give you some background in how the languages work before you try something like this. Or even something like Carson's Exegetical Fallacies. The reason that you will be less interested in this kind of study once you learn a little bit about the languages is something called semantic domains. If you imagine a Venn diagram for an English word and a Greek word, you will find that there are usually some things that the English word means which the Greek word does not, some things that the Greek word means that the English word does not and some overlap in meaning.
Pneuma, for example, can mean "wind." Pneuma can also mean "spirit," which wind cannot. "Wind" can mean "to roll something up," which pneuma cannot. So a single English word may correspond (partially) to several Greek words and vice versa.
Now, introduce Hebrew (via the LXX). a Hebrew word may overlap a Greek word in some respects, overlap an English word in some respects, occasionally overlap both of them and perhaps overlap neither. It is not anything like saying that this English word is equal to a certain Greek word that is equal to a certain Hebrew word.There is a place for what you are trying to do, but it is actually really hard and very easy to think you have proven something which is totally bogus. The third and final resource I might recommend is the New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology and Exegesis. You can look up a Greek word there and trace it through its historical usage. But I would not even use that resource without reading Exegetical Fallacies first.
Using Logos as a pastor, seminary professor, and Tyndale author
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Naveen Daniel said:
Specifically, I was trying to see if the Greek word (or lemma or root) underlying “purpose” in Roman 8:28 is the same Greek word (or lemma or root) used in the Septuagint that is translated in English as “plans” in Jeremiah 29:11.
Expanding the ESV translation ring shows that the Greek word used in the LXX only occurs twice in the New Testament and is not present in Romans 8:28.
But, as others have pointed out, even if it were there needs to be a lot of care taken in drawing conclusions regarding a similar meaning
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I admire your ambition to fully understand how a word is used. One of the problems is that the word has a meaning in context. It's your main goal to understand the word in a given passage context first, then in the author's usage in a given book before trying to scope usage in the New Testament or the Old Testament. Stay focused before trying to navigate the spiral of meanings which may detract from correct exegesis.
The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter
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Thank you very much for pointing it out.
I believe in a Win-Win-Win God.
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I completely agree with you that the meaning of words change over time. Ultimately, I want to research God’s goals towards human beings as revealed in the Bible. If neither English nor Greek/Hebrew word studies are helpful, what do you suggest would be the best way to go about this?
Thank you
I believe in a Win-Win-Win God.
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Justin Gatlin:
I started reading Don Carson’s Exegetical Fallacies a long while back and it was a yawn! I picked the New Testament Exegetical Course as part of Logos Gold package (but have only Starter Feature set). I followed the course for some time but got bored. My mind starts wavering anytime the nuggets learnt per unit time spent is low. I’ll try and gut it out.
Ultimately, I want to research God’s goals towards human beings as revealed in the Bible. What do you think is the best way to go about it?
Thanks
I believe in a Win-Win-Win God.
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Graham Criddle: Thank you very much.
I believe in a Win-Win-Win God.
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This is my first entry into the Forum. I am amazed by how many of you were willing to spend time to educate a novice like me (till a couple of years ago, I didn’t even know the words “lexicon,” “exegesis,” and “hermeneutics.”) Your help is much appreciated. Sorry for being slow to respond. Trying to balance professional life and the rest of life is hard sometimes.
As I've said in my other replies, ultimately, I want to research God’s goals towards human beings as revealed in the Bible. What is the best way to go about it?
Here is what comes to my mind.
I could do a search on the Entire bible across all the major translations to identify verses that contain the words/phrases such as ["purpose" or "goal" or "plan" or "desire" or "intent" or "aim" or "design" or "mission" or "will"] AND ["God" or "Lord" or "Him" or "His" or "He"] within the same verse. Then scour the output to identify which verses relate to God's goals.
I do have the Louw-Nida and the 3 Dictionaries of Biblical Languages with Semantic Domains and the 3 Lexham Analytical Lexicons. Don't know if these resources will help me.
Again, thank you so very much to all of you in advance for your suggestions that I know will be forthcoming.
Naveen
I believe in a Win-Win-Win God.
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Naveen Daniel said:
As I've said in my other replies, ultimately, I want to research God’s goals towards human beings as revealed in the Bible
I'd like to make a counter point. It has been my observation that people pick up Logos best when they start with a passage they wish to know more about and explore the various tools' contribution to that understanding and being very willing to chase rabbit trails that arise. Spend some time with a passage and move on when you get bored or everything seems repetitive. Then when you start to focus on a particular topic or question of interest to you, you have the skills necessary to determine which references are worth pursuing and a basic idea on how to pursue them.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Naveen Daniel said:
As I've said in my other replies, ultimately, I want to research God’s goals towards human beings as revealed in the Bible. What is the best way to go about it?
It sounds as though a "near approximation" to what you are interested in is the topic of God's Providence.
Two starting points in Logos to explore this are the Topic Guide and the Theology Guide
Running these and following up on the biblical verses and other resources might provide some direction for your study.
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Thank you so very much MJ. The reason why I like my job as an academic researcher is that I get to research only those topics that interest me. As a financial economist, goals are a great starting point to understanding why people make the decisions they make. That is why I am starting with God’s goal. I want to understand God’s decisions. (I know, that is a big goal on my part!) I can then apply my God-given professional gifts to the Scriptures and see what comes out of it.
I believe in a Win-Win-Win God.
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Thank you Graham. Providence is a good angle indeed. I will pursue that path.
The "Dictionary of Bible Themes" has an entry for "goals." Lots of useless references, mainly because I am specifically interested in God's goal with respect to the human race. Lots of references to what God does (these are His decisions), which is not the same as God's goal with respect to the human race (which is the basis for His decisions).
To understand God's decisions, we need to start with God's goals. Why? Because nothing He does will push Him away from realizing His goals. That is why I want to nail it down correctly.
Well, I will keep plugging away with all the help I can get.
Naveen
I believe in a Win-Win-Win God.
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