Aaaaagggghh!! It happened again. Too easy to delete a collection with no warning! PLEASE FIX THIS!!
I was scrolling through the collections on the Open menu in my collections pane, looking for a particular one to open, when I accidentally hit the red X of one of the collections in my list (it's so close to the scroll bar) and WHAM! it was gone. No warning "are you sure you want to delete this collection?" or anything.
Please fix this somehow. This is too dangerous and too easy to stumble upon. It was a rather complex collection rule that I'd painstakingly built up, and I was bummed to have lost it.
Fortunately my laptop (which was up and running Logos at the time) had not quite synced to the change yet and I was able to open the collection over there and copy the rule to the clipboard before it too disappeared from my Laptop (the sync happened within about 2 minutes of my accidentally deleting it). So I recreated it, synced it back over to my desktop, and I'm relieved. But this could so easily have not turned out with a happy ending.
Please, Logos, I strongly urge you to find a way to keep it from being so easy to shoot oneself in the foot here.
Comments
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I agree, all changes (collection names or syntax) need to be confirmed with on YES/ NO options and the line showing the name of the collection should be transformed into a drop down list menu where you can select the collection you want. This is more intuitive and is the most other programs handle list.
Alain
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[Y]please
Never Deprive Anyone of Hope.. It Might Be ALL They Have
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A suggestion: reqiure right-clicking on a collection name and selecting "Delete" from a popup menu (the way the Layout menu works) to prevent accidental deletion and bring the program into more UI consistency.
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Rosie Perera said:
A suggestion: reqiure right-clicking on a collection name and selecting "Delete" from a popup menu (the way the Layout menu works) to prevent accidental deletion and bring the program into more UI consistency.
Fortunately, I have not yet experienced this accidental deletion, but I can see how easy it is to have this happen. I agree that this need fixing, and Rosie has an excellent solution.
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Having done this a few times myself...I'm voting yes please...a confirmation box....
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Robert Pavich said:
Having done this a few times myself...I'm voting yes please...a confirmation box....
Incidentally, I just noticed another place where the deletion of items could be accidentally done without intending it: In Passage Lists, you can delete an item in the list either by hovering and clicking the red X (no confirmation given) or by right-clicking (not on the link itself but somewhere else on the line) and selecting Delete. It's not as serious if you accidentally delete an item in a PL because you can Undo it with Ctrl+Z right away. But you can't undo deletion of a collection, so this should absolutely be confirmed! (Also, make Undo work for this too.)
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I agree something should be done, but I think there's a simpler solution than a confirm button.
Don't open the Collection tool to a collection, have it open to a blank screen. Then, we can create a new collection or load whatever one we wish to see/edit. You would still have to remember to create a new document if you are creating multiple collections in a row, but this suggestion would have the benefit of being more consistent with the UI strategy Logos has adopted.
Prov. 15:23
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Kevin Becker said:
I agree something should be done, but I think there's a simpler solution than a confirm button.
Don't open the Collection tool to a collection, have it open to a blank screen. Then, we can create a new collection or load whatever one we wish to see/edit.
You misunderstood the problem I described. It was not about opening up to a collection by default. It's about the Open menu where it is too easy to accidentally hit the red X while you're scrolling. Opening to a blank screen wouldn't solve that. You'd still need to use the Open menu on the Collections tab to open and modify an existing collection if you wanted to do that. But that's where you I into trouble hitting that darned X by mistake all the time. And I just figured out why this happens to me so often: the menu actually changes width as you scroll through it if you have some collections with longer names further down the list than the first page. So if you place your mouse squarely on the scroll bar and click twice to page down twice, you will without a doubt hit a red X without intending to, even when you're being very careful to aim at where the scroll bar is (was). This is not acceptable! I'm going to file a separate report and call it a bug that the menu changes width like this.
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I agree! I haven't had the experience of accidentally deleting one on my collections but for some of them I've spent considerable time and thought creating. I'd be greatly perturbed if I accidently deleted one. My sympathies to those of you who have!
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Here's the other thread I posted, with a video demonstrating how easy this is to accidentally do: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/14417.aspx
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Rosie Perera said:
It's not as serious if you accidentally delete an item in a PL because you can Undo it with Ctrl+Z right away. But you can't undo deletion of a collection, so this should absolutely be confirmed! (Also, make Undo work for this too.)
I agree that it is easy to delete a collection, especially after watching your video. But on my system, CTRL Z and CMD Z both bring it back. It appears that the Undo is working.
“... every day in which I do not
penetrate more deeply into the knowledge of God’s Word in Holy Scripture
is a lost day for me. I can only move forward with certainty upon the
firm ground of the Word of God.”0 -
Rosie Perera said:
You misunderstood the problem I described. It was not about opening up to a collection by default. It's about the Open menu where it is too easy to accidentally hit the red X while you're scrolling. Opening to a blank screen wouldn't solve that. You'd still need to use the Open menu on the Collections tab to open and modify an existing collection if you wanted to do that. But that's where you I into trouble hitting that darned X by mistake all the time. And I just figured out why this happens to me so often: the menu actually changes width as you scroll through it if you have some collections with longer names further down the list than the first page. So if you place your mouse squarely on the scroll bar and click twice to page down twice, you will without a doubt hit a red X without intending to, even when you're being very careful to aim at where the scroll bar is (was). This is not acceptable! I'm going to file a separate report and call it a bug that the menu changes width like this.
AH, I understand now. Thanks.
Prov. 15:23
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Dewayne Davis said:
I agree that it is easy to delete a collection, especially after watching your video. But on my system, CTRL Z and CMD Z both bring it back. It appears that the Undo is working.
Ah yes, I see that Ctrl+Z does bring the deleted collection back if you delete it while the menu is still dropped down. That wasn't intuitive. I don't think of menus as accepting keyboard commands like that. I had closed the menu and then tried to undo the deletion, and if you do that it doesn't undo.
Also, when I do Ctrl+Z to undo the deletion, I get the wonky flickering menu problem I've described elsewhere.
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Rosie Perera said:
Ah yes, I see that Ctrl+Z does bring the deleted collection back if you delete it while the menu is still dropped down. That wasn't intuitive.
Why would one even suspect it was possible!
The File menu objects cannot be easily deleted because you have to right click for a context menu. The Open menu for Collections should be consistent (it has the context menu but remove the X).
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Rosie Perera said:
the menu actually changes width as you scroll through it if you have some collections with longer names further down the list than the first page. So if you place your mouse squarely on the scroll bar and click twice to page down twice, you will without a doubt hit a red X without intending to, even when you're being very careful to aim at where the scroll bar is (was). This is not acceptable!
Ahhhh! So that's what happened! And to think that all along, I had thought it was myself who had aimed for but missed the vertical scroll bar. So it's actually because the menu changed width! Not acceptable indeed! And no, Ctrl-Z is not the most intuitive thing to do when an accident occurs like that, even if it works.
But even if the menu width was fixed (pun intended), I still think the red X delete button is too near to the vertical scroll bar. Can we still ...
(a) move it away (eg. left side of the menu instead of right side); and/or
(b) require right click for option to delete instead of just clicking on red X to delete; and/or
(c) have a "Confirm Delete? Yes / No" dialogue box
Thanks.
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Theophilus said:
(b) require right click for option to delete instead of just clicking on red X to delete; and/or
Since, this is the design elsewhere in the application, I vote for this one!
MacBook Pro (2019), ThinkPad E540
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Dave Hooton said:
The File menu objects cannot be easily deleted because you have to right click for a context menu.
Ditto for saved Layouts, custom templates on the Guides menu, custom Highlighting styles, and Favorites. Seems like different teams in Development work working on these different features and they ended up inconsistent.
Dave Hooton said:The Open menu for Collections should be consistent (it has the context menu but remove the X).
Ditto for references in a Passage List.
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Theophilus said:
(b) require right click for option to delete instead of just clicking on red X to delete;
I've been trying to think of any other application that in a drop-down menu allows the deletion of an item through simply clicking a red x. I can't think of any.
This option, imho, should simply be removed. The right click delete option is a standard gui option and is sufficient.
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What about some sort of recycle bin for Logos 4? A place where deleted items, notes, clippings, collections, etc go where we have the ability to recycle them.
John
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John Fugh, Jr. said:
What about some sort of recycle bin for Logos 4? A place where deleted items, notes, clippings, collections, etc go where we have the ability to recycle them
I like the idea (it would have to be an internal "recycle bin" because many documents of the one type are stored within a single SQlite database).
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:
I like the idea (it would have to be an internal "recycle bin" because many documents of the one type are stored within a single SQlite database).
Yeah, they'd have to wait to actually delete these from the SQlite db until you close Logos or empty the recycle bin. Deleting something would just mark them as deleted internally so they don't show up in lists and things. (I hope that wouldn't slow things down.) And then you could go poking around through the recycle bin and right click on things and select Undelete.
That would be very nice!
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Well, afer reading the above, I must agree that removing the X, and leaving the current right-click delete sequence is a simple and clean solution.
This sounds like its important and is impacting users as it currently operates!!!
No, "Are you sure" required, if the UI is not so risky.
HOWEVER, I'd love the Dev Team to add the following for AFTER more critical features are operational/completed.
1) Add a new Settings parameter: "Days to Keep Deleted Items" e.g. 14 days
2) Add a new Settings parameter: "Show Deleted Items: YES/NO
3) Modify all UIs that list items, so deleted items show in light-grey/faded/etc if the "Show Deleted" (2) is enabled, otherwise not shown.
4) Modify all UIs that list items, to add "Undelete" right-click context for all deleted items, if they are shown per (2).
5) Delete/Undelete only change a status flag to support the above UI aspects, but a deleted item should continue to live within the databases and be synced with the Logos servers etc.
6) A deleted item should be disabled to the max extent possible. It should "act" as if there was no such item, except maybe searches should still find deleted notes etc.
7) Some method to check and purge expired and deleted items from the databases. I think this should NOT be automatic on startup or shutdown when busy users have better things to do than have prompts in their faces about old data. Not sure I would want it to be invisible and silent, but maybe that is not so bad given the clean hands-off style for some other aspects of the program. If so, it could run at low priority after startup completes, much like how I expect the checks for new versions etc works now.
Once us users have significant user-content, that content belongs to us and is important, so any help to protect and safeguard it from loss or acidental deletes is a big deal.
I would also like to be able to export it in some form, so we can protect it outside of Logos 4 and the online servers. Even if it was some XML files that are not intended for direct user use. If there was an export, an import too, then we could relax about our content being lost.
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Rosie Perera said:
Please, Logos, I strongly urge you to find a way to keep it from being so easy to shoot oneself in the foot here.
I've submitted this request.
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Melissa.
Thanks for the official feedback. It is most welcome, as once we hear something, we can trust and assume a solution in due course.
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Melissa Snyder said:
Thanks, Melissa. In another thread, Jim Towler asked whether we could have a bug tracking number to use for follow-ups whenever you submit one of the bugs or requests from the forum to your internal database. I think that is a great idea. Would that be possible? I'm assuming your bug database does assign unique numbers to each report. If you could post that number, it would give us an added level of trust that it's going to be looked into, and a number to refer to in the future if reporting about bug regressions.
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Todd Phillips said:
Unfortunately I have been the victim of my own quick clicks by mistake, as the side scroll bar doesn't stay in the same place as it scrolls (it would be nice if it did). Too many times I didn't realize it until after I had gone past the point of a Control-Z reversing it. The last time I tried desperately to run to my laptop and duplicate the collection that had been accidently deleted, but to no avail. Once it sync'd it was gone and I had to recreate it.
It would be nice to have this resolved so it wouldn't be possible to delete a collection accidentally.
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We really need a way to BACKUP and protect our user-data in Logos4!!!
The current SYNC to the Logos servers is not a backup. Our data has no protection from system failures or user-error.
Please Logos, let us export our content to files we can store, backup, eat or copy as we like.
e.g.
"export notes to dirname"
"export collections to dirname"
or
"set export to dirname"
"export notes"
"export collections"
"export all"
Thanks.
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Jim Towler said:
Please Logos, let us export our content to files we can store, backup, eat or copy as we like.
e.g.
"export notes to dirname"
"export collections to dirname"
or
"set export to dirname"
"export notes"
"export collections"
"export all"
don't forget the import, otherwise exporting is futile (e.g. resistance is futile) [:)]
Thanks Jim
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steve clark said:
don't forget the import, otherwise exporting is futile
Yes - of course [:)]
Logos4 already has an import than handles L3 format notes, prayers and a few other things.
Extend that to accept both the old and new formats, so the same import can handle both, and make a new export. Simple right?
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With the hints of what is coming for sharing files, I would expect some sort of export/import function in the near future.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Melissa Snyder said:
The "X" to delete will be removed in the next 4.2 beta, with "Delete" added to the context menu.
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Melissa Snyder said:
The "X" to delete will be removed in the next 4.2 beta, with "Delete" added to the context menu.
[h] WHOOOO HOOOOOO! [h]
Can you do the same with notes?
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Thank you so much...my mouse thanks you as well for it, quite rightly, suffered the blame for each inadvertent deletion!!!
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Melissa Snyder said:
The "X" to delete will be removed in the next 4.2 beta, with "Delete" added to the context menu.
Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!!!!!! [:)][:)][:)][:)]
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Todd Phillips said:
Thank you, & sign me up as requesting a consistent interface--delete to context menu only...
Grace & Peace,
Bill
MSI GF63 8RD, I-7 8850H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1050Max
iPhone 12 Pro Max 512Gb
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BillS said:
sign me up as requesting a consistent interface--delete to context menu only...
Me too....
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Melissa Snyder said:
The "X" to delete will be removed in the next 4.2 beta,
NOW I'm looking forward to the next beta!
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:
I would have been looking forward to the new beta anyway. I've already exhausted all its new features and have only found one bug. Nice and stable! That's what I like in a Beta 1!!
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Rosie Perera said:
I would have been looking forward to the new beta anyway. I've already exhausted all its new features and have only found one bug. Nice and stable! That's what I like in a Beta 1!!
The "X" to delete is still there in Beta 1 (along with Delete + some nifty items on the Context menu)!
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:
The "X" to delete is still there in Beta 1 (along with Delete + some nifty items on the Context menu)!
I don't have an X to the right of my Collections on the Open list. Where are you seeing it?
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Melissa Snyder said:
I don't have an X to the right of my Collections on the Open list. Where are you seeing it?
Hi Melissa
Could the X below be what Dave is referring to?
It appears when you hover your mouse over the collection
Graham
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Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:
Yes! And it works
My previous comment about the "X" being gone in the next 4.2 beta came after Beta 1 was released, so you won't see the change until the Beta 2.
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Melissa Snyder said:
My previous comment about the "X" being gone in the next 4.2 beta came after Beta 1 was released, so you won't see the change until the Beta 2.
I became aware of 4.2 Beta after I read your post, so made the natural assumption (time zones and all that ...).
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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John Fugh, Jr. said:
What about some sort of recycle bin for Logos 4? A place where deleted items, notes, clippings, collections, etc go where we have the ability to recycle them.
I asked about this recently as well (here) but got shot down... I really feel strongly that Logos should help preserve user-created data, etc and make losing data difficult. That's why all modern operating systems (Windows, Mac OS, etc) have a recycle bin feature...
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Melissa Snyder said:
you won't see the change until the Beta 2.
Just confirming it is fixed in Beta 2. i notice the spacing between entries in the Open menu has decreased so we see 17.2 names instead of 14. It is a little cramped so could we increase the spacing and make the box larger to accommodate at least 16?
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:
i notice the spacing between entries in the Open menu has decreased so we see 17.2 names instead of 14. It is a little cramped so could we increase the spacing and make the box larger to accommodate at least 16?
Absolutely. I'm on it.
User Interface Designer - Logos Bible Software
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I like the tighter spacing. I have a lot of collections, so it's good to see more.
MacBook Pro (2019), ThinkPad E540
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Todd Phillips said:
I like the tighter spacing. I have a lot of collections, so it's good to see more.
I was cognizant of that need - maybe an extra point or two of spacing to be compatible with File menu, which has 18.1 entries in its box.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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WHOOOO HOOOOOO! 
