A.A. Hodge March Madness Not a Good Deal: Retail price is 2X - $59, should be $29

Logos has the price all wrong. They say the retail is $59, but their
retail price is 2X the retail price for a hardcover edition, which I
have, from Banner of Truth. And if you don't know, Banner of Truth makes
excellent hardcover books.

http://www.wtsbooks.com/product-exec/product_id/654/nm/Outlines+of+Theology

You can get it new in hardcover for $20.00 from Westminster
Theological Seminary Bookstore!

I too was a bit excited to get that book in electronic format, until I
realized that the sale price is not a good deal at all, and it's
supposed to be a March Madness deal. Perhaps it's a simple mistake, but
it's certainly not a good deal and for those who trust Logos pricing,
look again.

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Comments

Robert Lombardi

Just to confirm some consensus. I bought this book originally in 2007 fromAmazon.

Shipped on September 5, 2007

1
of:
Outlines of Theology, A. A. Hodge (Author)

Sold by: Amazon.com, LLC

$22.79

J. Morris

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/112112#Comment_112112

Logos price comparison is compared to suggested retail price... Granted... no one sells it for that, but it is still a common """accepted""" practice by most to compare one's price to the SRP.

Todd Phillips

Well if you want to be precise, then the BoT edition is also overpriced: since you can read it for free from here: http://www.archive.org/details/outlinesoftheolo1878hodg

However I do agree that I would not have bought it at the normal Logos price. But look around at the other public domain offering Logos has. This isn't an uncommon problem. Logos books are generally only a good deal when bought in bundles (or prepub).

I tend to wait for Logos sales like this to bring the single book prices into a reasonable range. I don't consider the sale price to be outrageous for the book. It integrates better with the rest of my Logos library than the hardback would anyway.

Robert Lombardi

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/112128#Comment_112128

I'm sure you are aware of the scripture that tells Christians to use balanced weights and measures. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Logos seems to be very imbalanced in their measurement here. A March Madness sale at 40% off is still almost 2x the going sale price of the high quality print version? That seems awfully imbalanced.

(‾◡◝)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/112130#Comment_112130

Is the Banner's edition electronically tagged, searchable, and hyperlinked? Can it be corrected/updated via the cloud? Can you purchase it once and use it in multiple locations without having to drag it back and forth? How easy is it to copy/quote long sections of the text for use in other documents? Will the Banner edition eventually wear out even despite the beautiful bindings?

Seems to me that the Logos edition has some value added features that the print edition does not.

Personally, I consider these things to be of significant value and am happy/willing to pay for them.

Todd Phillips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/112130#Comment_112130

I'm sure you are aware of the scripture that tells Christians to use balanced weights and measures. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Logos seems to be very imbalanced in their measurement here. A March Madness sale at 40% off is still almost 2x the going sale price of the high quality print version? That seems awfully imbalanced.

I'm not one to defend Logos pricing structures, some times I personally think they are too high, but other times I have received great deals. However, Logos has addressed that elsewhere and on multiple occasions--see here for one: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/11152/87648.aspx#87648

However the verses about weights and measures (Leviticus 19:36, Deuteronomy 25:14-16, Proverbs 16:1, etc) refer to deceptive business practices and how the Lord hates that. I think it's a misapplication to use those passages to judge a vendor for prices you consider to be too high. Who's to say what costs they have and what they need to charge?

Ralph Mauch

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/112130#Comment_112130

scripture that tells Christians to use balanced weights and measures

Right, but one needs to measure apples to apples, and oranges to oranges, which is the case here. It's one thing if they would sell a printed book, it's a whole other thing to sell a book that works with a piece of software with all the links and other things that go into that. I don't buy everything just because it's available, I buy items based on the value they give me in my reading and studying God's words... there are many valuable items I've found so far.

Robert Lombardi

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/112142#Comment_112142

I'm well aware of the added value. I've invested $1,000's in Logos books. Perhaps I'm not understanding the meaning of retail price. From what I can see, the retail price is not $59 from what I can tell. Anyone see a retail price of $59 anywhere?

From another perspective, is it really reasonable that a $29 print book costs 2X in electronic edition?! I just have a hard time getting over the fact that the Logos retail is 2x the hardback version retail price.

Robert Lombardi

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/112136#Comment_112136

Is the Banner's edition electronically tagged, searchable, and hyperlinked? Can it be corrected/updated via the cloud? Can you purchase it once and use it in multiple locations without having to drag it back and forth? How easy is it to copy/quote long sections of the text for use in other documents? Will the Banner edition eventually wear out even despite the beautiful bindings?

Seems to me that the Logos edition has some value added features that the print edition does not.

Personally, I consider these things to be of significant value and am happy/willing to pay for them.

Yes, I'm well aware of the features. And they have value, but 2X the retail price?! At the point, and this economy, I have to question it's worth. A book such as A.A. Hodge outlines is so well organized that you just
have to go to the table of contents for a particular topic.

I have excellent scanning and note-taking software (Abby FineReader, IrisPen, Nota Bene, nVivo). It's very easy for me to take print material and transform it into classified, stored, easily retrievable notes. In fact, my note-taking system can retrieve notes much faster than Logos and each note is tagged with RTA classification, my own quick classification and helpful keywords. I learned my system from a very helpful man, Kent Wilkerson, in the Nota Bene community. It's well tailored system with custom short-cut keys, templates, programmed automation, etc. Nota Bene is really quite amazing for this type of thing.

http://www.notabene.com/

My point is to say that having tagged and searchable books only goes so far for research, note-taking. It very easy to have a system of note-taking and researching that can make it very possible to use print books with effectiveness and rely on your stored notes to provide data that you have already sifted through in the time of need.

Jim VanSchoonhoven

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/112156#Comment_112156

Yes, I think that many of the Logos public domain books are over priced, but the solution is to buy them in bundles and on big sales, such as community pricing, but even then they sometimes seem high priced, until you start to compare the prices with those found in other bible programs.

I have contacts with many, if not all of the other bible programs because I show people how to use bible study programs of all sorts to study the word, and when you start looking at their prices compared to the Logos price, all of a sudden the Logos price starts looking better and better, this really shows through on the copyrighted research books and large sets of commentaries.

If you are building a large research library to study effectively with least amount of work, nothing compares with libronix 3, and on top of all the resources you can buy there is nearly 1000 free pbb resources online at different places.

Once Logos 4 is completed it will take the spot as the best system with the best value for those seeking a complete research library system at the best value.

If any one knows of better buys on over all libraries I would love to know about them, but my experience shows Logos is way ahead when it comes to the over all value of the library alone and the lead gets bigger when one understands how to use the system to it's fullest extent!

Still one of their biggest drawbacks are high prices and the prices stop many from buying!!!

In Christ,

Jim

Robert Lombardi

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/112174#Comment_112174

The sale page for this book doesn't mention the features. Sometimes the features are really rather simple. It's like they simply scanned it in, OCR'd and converted some scripture reference to links. Does that really cost so much to do, especially when they probably have a good portion of it automated. I bet I can scan and convert the whole book in 30 minutes using a commercial scanner, and Abby Finereader. Then finding and converting scripture references and headings should be automated to a large extent. Someone would just need to go through and do some minor clean-up here and there. Perhaps another 8 hours of work for one person to do final editing. Am I missing something?

Anyways, my original purpose for posting this was because I though some people might not realize that the "March Madness" price is not as crazy as it first seems. I usually expect to be getting really good deals at 40% off, but I was just surprised to see that the print version is only $20 and the retail price is $29 and that Logos retail prices are doubled! I thought perhaps others might not have done the homework and that the price WAS really wrong. I thought perhaps some people might appreciate being alerted to this fact.I thought perhaps Logos might have made a mistake in pricing that needed to be correct.

With respect to what some people here have said about the added features, it seems that some people think it's fair. But there are also those that think it is inflated. I wasn't aware it was so complex and an ongoing issue. Consider me informed a bit more on the subject.

As for me, I'll have to look over my print version again and see if the added features are worth paying more. It's amazing that a "March Madness' sale bring it from totally unthinkable to purchase ($59) to difficult to justify purchasing ($34). I would have hoped that an annual madness sale would make it a no brainer; but I suppose I had inflated expectation.

-Rob

Chris Thompson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/112178#Comment_112178

I would have hoped that an annual madness sale would make it a no brainer; but I suppose I had inflated expectation.

I hear voices...strange little voices, in my head.

They are saying things like 'Don't kick a dead horse'...and...'There is none so blind, as one who will not see'.

Scot Wright

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/112178#Comment_112178

An interesting discussion. I got this flyer from CBD today:

Zondervan Illustrated
Bible Backgrounds
Commentary on the New Testament
Clinton E. Arnold, ed.
List: $129.99
CBD Price $39.99

69% off Retail!

Now I think the pre-pub price for these same books at Logos is around 179.00 I agree with a previous post that I don't think your comparing apples to apples. The functionality and interface of these Logos electronic books is amazing to me and adds much value to my library. I have no idea what the license or production costs are compared with printed to the electronic versions but I've been with Logos a long time and they are honorable folks. I would want to pay a fair price for the risk and cutting edge stuff that I benefit from in my Bible Study. They being a Christian company may make a few mistakes now and then but I trust their pricing so that they can have a good return on their investment as well and support their business.

NetworkGeek

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/112182#Comment_112182

An interesting discussion. I got this flyer from CBD today:

Zondervan Illustrated
Bible Backgrounds
Commentary on the New Testament
Clinton E. Arnold, ed.
List: $129.99
CBD Price $39.99

69% off Retail!

Now I think the pre-pub price for these same books at Logos is around 179.00 I agree with a previous post that I don't think your comparing apples to apples. The functionality and interface of these Logos electronic books is amazing to me and adds much value to my library. I have no idea what the license or production costs are compared with printed to the electronic versions but I've been with Logos a long time and they are honorable folks. I would want to pay a fair price for the risk and cutting edge stuff that I benefit from in my Bible Study. They being a Christian company may make a few mistakes now and then but I trust their pricing so that they can have a good return on their investment as well and support their business.

This sale is of paper books being unloaded in inventory. We see that all the time, in all aspects of retail. They want to get rid of the inventory at virtually any price to free up cash and space for other purchases. This does not reflect the true retail price of these books.

The best pricing at Logos is Community Pricing, which few use. As an example Catena Aurea, 8 volumes of Thomas Aquinas' compilation ofthe Early Church Fathers, 2784 pages, can like be had for $20 if a few more people sign up.

http://www.logos.com/communitypricing/details/5216

In paperback at Amazon it sells for $175. That's a great deal, as are all the Community Pricing projects of public domain works. I doubt you would find anyone selling the eBook set that cheaply!

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/112122#Comment_112122

The suggested retail price of this book is $29, so I think in this case Logos does have it wrong. To be fair, they do usually get it right.

Ted Hans

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/112237#Comment_112237

I do agree with the original poster,it is way over priced! it seems even if it was billed at $100 some will cheer on because of the added features in Logos. That said, Logos bundle offerings and Sales are very great.

Ted.

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/112130#Comment_112130

A March Madness sale at 40% off is still almost 2x the going sale price of the high quality print version

This poor horse has been beaten so many times in this forum that I am surprised it hasn't expired. This discussion comes up repeatedly. If you believe the book is overpriced, don't buy it.

Chris Thompson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/112243#Comment_112243

I would have hoped that an annual madness sale would make it a no brainer; but I suppose I had inflated expectation.

I hear voices...strange little voices, in my head.

They are saying things like 'Don't kick a dead horse'...and...'There is none so blind, as one who will not see'.

A March Madness sale at 40% off is still almost 2x the going sale price of the high quality print version

This poor horse has been beaten so many times in this forum that I am surprised it hasn't expired. This discussion comes up repeatedly. If you believe the book is overpriced, don't buy it.

Horse?...Dead and dying horses?...You hear the voices too...don't you, Jack?..It's so good to know someone understands.

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/112245#Comment_112245

Horse?...Dead and dying horses?...You hear the voices too...don't you, Jack?..It's so good to know someone understands.

[:D]

Ken Shawver

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/112254#Comment_112254

Jack I hear ya, this has been popping up of and on for as long as I have been on the forum which is years ( my post numbers just don't reflect the length of time). Even talking to folks at Logos will tell you to buy items in bundle offers and pre-pubs for the best pricing. Unfortunately, that isn't always financially feasible, but the ability is there.

Besides I have to agree you aren't quite comparing apples to apples between a hardcover and a Logos "enhanced" electronic editions. Sometimes it's nice to hold that hardcover but for me it doesn't provide as much benefit as the electronic version when studying or message prep.

Robert Lombardi

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/112254#Comment_112254

This was my first time on this horse. And honestly, my initial reaction was that there must be a big mistake. I wanted to sound an alert to those who might not be aware of the actual retail price of the printed version. I wasn't trying to start a heated debate about pricing, although I was easily distracted and joined in on that dead-horse. I find it strange that their retail price can be 2X the printed version.

It seems my biggest mistake in this is not understanding that the suggested retail price of the Logos book is something determined by Logos for the electronic edition. The suggested retail price of the hard back Banner of Truth version is a price determined by someone else entirely and has little to do with the suggested retail price of the Logos version. Am I understaning this correctly now?

Chris Thompson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/112257#Comment_112257

The ones who will agree with you, don't need your explaination...The ones who need your explaination, will never agree with you.

You are limited to a very small audience....Kinda like preachin' to the choir.[:P]

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/112257#Comment_112257

I wasn't trying to start a heated debate about pricing,

This always becomes a heated discussion. Calvinists can hug Arminians (or vice-versa) easier that this horse can be buried. [8-|]

It seems my biggest mistake in this is not understanding that the suggested retail price of the Logos book is something determined by Logos for the electronic edition.

I honestly do not know where SRP comes from. I just look at the offered price, my budget, and the anticipated value of the resource. If that all comes up positive, I purchase the resource. Otherwise, I let it go. Unfortunately for my pocketbook, the equation seem slanted toward "BUY". I need a new calculator. [:D]

my initial reaction was that there must be a big mistake. I wanted to sound an alert to those who might not be aware of the actual retail price of the printed version.

That was a good motive. It's just that this subject always seem to raise the temperature of the discussion rapidly.

Ken Shawver

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/112257#Comment_112257

Hey Robert, I didn't think you were creating a heated debate on the topic. As Abi said some will agre some won't. But, I think the funny thing about pricing is the whole concept of "suggested" price. That being the price a seller would like to get for a product, but would settle for less which is why the suggested price is not often the actual price. I've been to other countries where if you tried to pay what they initially asked they wouldn't even sell to you, because haggling over the price is a cultural thing. They enjoy it and it is a type of social interaction.

Have a blessed day.

Todd Phillips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/112257#Comment_112257

The suggested retail price of the hard back Banner of Truth version is a price determined by someone else entirely and has little to do with the suggested retail price of the Logos version. Am I understaning this correctly now?

I believe you're correct. Also a lot public domain books require very little development work on the part of the publisher since they can use page scans of previous editions to reprint. After looking at the text of the BoT edition, I would suspect that is the case there. If they do reset the type in a modern typeface then it costs more. Logos on the other hand has to scan or type, and then proofread and correct, and then markup and tag, and then support the text for the life of their software. So I would not be surprised to find it to be more expensive.

I do think that some of their book prices are inflated, especially since they supposedly recover development costs when the pre-pub orders are filled. But what do I know? If it's overpriced, I wait for a sale.

Chris Thompson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/112272#Comment_112272

Jeremiah 17:11... A Fool and His Ill-Gotten Money Are Soon Parted.