Perhaps this will explain how to reproduce the syntax graph:
The red arrows show from where each node is created. The second level (and lower) dependents are the hardest to grasp.
When you hover a node in the graph resource, it will show its type e.g. ADV = Adverbial function = Clause Function. Then you select Adverbial from the attributes box. The Terminal Node is useful when there are intervening nodes/terms, as it expresses all the attributes of the conj node and the actual word node (I didn't include the original language word as that is usually superfluous when searching for other conjunctions which may not have the conj node). If I used a Word node instead of the Terminal Node (also with the Conjunction attribute), I would have to add "Matching skips levels" as you are 'skipping' the conj node to get to the Word node.
When you run the Search, the results will include 1 Cor 7:17.
Andersen-Forbes Phrase Marker Analysis & Cascadia SYNTAX GRAPHS OF THE NEW TESTAMENT
Hi everyone
I am struggling to get my head around the flow of the graphs and how to create new accurate queries that produce results instead of mostly zero results. I have watched the videos here https://support.logos.com/hc/en-us/articles/360030199492-Using-the-Syntax-Search-in-Logos but there are a lot of gaps in explaining the flow of the graphs for a person that has never done this before. Can anyone recommend additional videos or documentation geared for a beginner that can assist me?
I have tried using the glossaries and whilst they explain what the different nodes mean, it does not explain how to implement a query when there are multiple clauses in a verse, as in the attached example.
Any assistance will be appreciated.
Comments
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Perhaps this will explain how to reproduce the syntax graph:
The red arrows show from where each node is created. The second level (and lower) dependents are the hardest to grasp.
When you hover a node in the graph resource, it will show its type e.g. ADV = Adverbial function = Clause Function. Then you select Adverbial from the attributes box. The Terminal Node is useful when there are intervening nodes/terms, as it expresses all the attributes of the conj node and the actual word node (I didn't include the original language word as that is usually superfluous when searching for other conjunctions which may not have the conj node). If I used a Word node instead of the Terminal Node (also with the Conjunction attribute), I would have to add "Matching skips levels" as you are 'skipping' the conj node to get to the Word node.
When you run the Search, the results will include 1 Cor 7:17.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Thank you very much for taking the time to explain. Would you mind creating a query for the words in rectangles in the attached as that will hopefully put together some of the missing pieces in my head.
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Thank you very much for taking the time to explain. Would you mind creating a query for the words in rectangles in the attached as that will hopefully put together some of the missing pieces in my head.
Click the Terminal Mode and scroll down to the Gloss.
Type except and select the gloss that matches the syntax graph resource. With that restriction, the only result is 1 Cor 7:17. Not every word has a Gloss, so it isn't a good search parameter.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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The challenge for you is to extend the other levels down to the word. Can you do that for Clause 4? Hint: you can use a Terminal Mode by itself...
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Thank you again. Trying to do this but struggling.
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Vincent Gombert said:
Thank you again. Trying to do this but struggling.
Inside the Terminal mode as for Clause 2. But there is an intervening Phrase to overcome....
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Thank you. I live in New Zealand so big time zone diff. Will get into it as 2am 😀
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Vincent ...there is danger in making assumptions. I believe Dave is in Australia [;)]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Oops. I was just trying to point out that there may be delays in my replies as most times I only get to this late evening / early morning. 👍
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I know but had to tease you a bit. Actually, the people who can answer most questions are spread nicely across the globe. Unfortunately, few can answer Search questions as well as Dave so one does notice time zones when he's the only (or best) person to respond. You get me any time you fail to distinguish between the Eastern Orthodox and the Oriental Orthodox. [8-|]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Hi Again
I have a question on a relating matter to my discussion with Dave. I have Logos 9 and when in the cascadia query section, if I start typing a lemma or gloss or any of the others, no drop down window appears to give me options. Is there a reason for this?
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And one more please, how do I rearrange the nodes in the graph without deleting the nodes following after?
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Hi Dave
I am getting there slowly. I noticed in another discussion you mentioned "ungrouped" and "Gap". I am wondering if either of these two are associated with this query I am trying to figure out. The attached image shows the lines I am trying to build into the query but as there are crossing lines I thought you might shed some light on this as my query does not produce any results.
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Here is my attempt
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The first look says you got the word order wrong. The conjunction is the first word. The Nominal phrase + Adjective leads to the third word. So your construction has to provide the words in the correct order, top to bottom.
The way to build is to add a node and run the search. If you get a result for Cor 7:17, add another node. If necessary, highlight a node so you can see the words that it includes. Use "Matching skips levels" if unsure, because you can always omit it later.
Gaps are a pain to include, but you should be able to build it by using "Matching skips levels" on either side of it. The thinking is that the conjunction is in a gap when nodes lines cross over it. I actually built the Gap first to ensure I was on track, then added the nodes above and below it.
Here is the central part in more detail.
You should be able to complete Clause 7 now!
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Vincent Gombert said:
And one more please, how do I rearrange the nodes in the graph without deleting the nodes following after?
If you delete a node, any dependents will also be deleted. You have to right click on the first dependent and cut it, then delete the node in question. Right click the last remaining node and paste back the dependents.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Vincent Gombert said:
Would you mind creating a query for the words in rectangles in the attached as that will hopefully put together some of the missing pieces in my head.
A suggestion for Syntax Search is using a search to find verse(s) that should be included in Syntax Search results: e.g. Bible Search <Lemma = lbs/el/ἕκαστος> NEAR <Lemma = lbs/el/μερίζω> finds two verses: Romans 12:3 and 1 Corinthians 7:17
One Syntax Search strategy is minimizing number of items to find desired clauses: e.g. two Syntax Search items for Cascadia SBL can find Romans 12:3 and 1 Corinthians 7:17
- Verbal Clause with Head Term lemma μερίζω
- Clause Function (Indirect Object) with Head Term lemma ἕκαστος
Due to a known Syntax Search Bug on macOS from Dec 2019 => No lemma Search in Greek or Hebrew Syntax used work around of copying lemma from Bible Search for pasting into Syntax Search Head Term lemma.
Inverted image (for some forum readers plus shows Dark Mode has challenging contrast combinations that are hard to read)
FYI: created thread => Bugs: Logos 9.1 Beta 2 Syntax Search - Dark Mode & Lemma suggestion
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Many thanks for your detailed reply.
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Great, thank you very much. I will work on this. I am slowly getting my head around this.
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Vincent Gombert said:
Great, thank you very much. I will work on this. I am slowly getting my head around this.
I agree that it can be a 'head' job! The ultimate aim is not to replicate the nodes in a particular passage, but to build a solution for a query where 1 Cor 7:17 is one of the results, as KS4J illustrates. So you need two or more known results, either from an external source or from a simple text Search e.g. Bible Search. A simple query would be to find sentences that start with a conjunction, as in 1 Cor 7:17:
Sentence .....> Word (Appears first, part-of-speech = conjunction)
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Very good advise, thanks again for all your assistance. During the course of my journey with this syntax search learning curve I have come across two issues that exist on the Mac version of Logos but not in the windows version.- When you add a node, the optionsto the right does not appear until you add another note, see image. I have tried this on several computers.
- When you type in a lemma or other selection the suggestions don't appear, see image.
I don't know where to report this, so if someone can assist in reporting or give a work around it would be appreciated.
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Vincent Gombert said:
- When you add a node, the optionsto the right does not appear until you add another note, see image. I have tried this on several computers.
- When you type in a lemma or other selection the suggestions don't appear, see image.
The first one should be reported in a separate thread, where the title begins with BUG: (correct the typos, though)
The second has been reported. Use Morph Search to get the actual lemma, then paste it into your Syntax Search.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Thank you. I have reported the BUG as per your suggestion.
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Vincent Gombert said:
. I have reported the BUG as per your suggestion.
A brief description of the problem should follow that, however.... (i.e. "where the title begins with BUG:")
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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