verbum vs Logos

I switched to Verbum a while back when I noticed I was getting more notices of new books on the home page. But I switched within Logos, using that command in the go box

Somebody on that Logos tips site mentioned that he had Verbum and Logos both opened at the same time. I thought I would try that. I had downloaded Verbum 9. So I have them both opened, to experiment.

I just noticed now while working in Amos that my visual filters aren't working for my English Bible. . The Hebrew and Greek Bibles still have them but not the NASB.

Why would that happen?

Also, I thought Logos and Verbum used the same library. I had 23G of stuff downloaded into my Verbum shortly after I opened that. So much for that.

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I just noticed now while working in Amos that my visual filters aren't working for my English Bible. . The Hebrew and Greek Bibles still have them but not the NASB.

Why would that happen?

Please post screenshots showing your visual filter definitions and what you are seeing in Amos

Also, I thought Logos and Verbum used the same library. I had 23G of stuff downloaded into my Verbum shortly after I opened that. So much for that.

No, as you have found out they use their own copy of the library - although you can choose to not download all your resources into either of them.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1142543#Comment_1142543

Hi Graham

There's nothing to see. I click on the visual filters icon at the top of the column, but there is no visual filters category. In my Hebrew Bible, it's the last section after passage lists. There 33 visual filters in the Hebrew Bible and none for the English. But the Logos version has them all.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1142544#Comment_1142544

There's nothing to see. I click on the visual filters icon at the top of the column, but there is no visual filters category.

Sorry - I meant one of the Visual Filter documents that defines the filters you are expecting to see.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1142551#Comment_1142551

Graham, all the visual filters work in Logos. In Verbum they work in the Hebrew and Greek but not the English. The entire visual filters option doesn't even show up in the English Bible.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1142554#Comment_1142554

Hi Larry

Sorry - but I understand that.

I'm trying to see how the visual filters are actually defined - such as this:

That will help me understand whether they are just looking for English words, or for original language terms that might help work out what is going on

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1142554#Comment_1142554

The entire visual filters option doesn't even show up in the English Bible.

You mentioned the NASB. Is that "the English Bible?" There are currently at least 3 different versions of that Bible in Logos. Which specific one are you using? Is it the same exact resource you are using in both Verbum and Logos?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1142556#Comment_1142556

Yes, but this works fine in the English text in Logos. And it works fine in the Hebrew and Greek of both. It's just the English Bible in Verbum.. In fact, tt's just the NASB in Verbum. I opened the NIV and the ESV, and they both work fine.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1142558#Comment_1142558

same version. I didn' t change anything when I started Verbum. Everything looks the same. Same highlights, notes, underlining, But then I noticed a word that I had a filter for wasn't marked.

It works for the ESV and NIV, which I just opened. But no visual filter option even appears for the NASB.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1142561#Comment_1142561

I think as Graham suggested you need to provide some screen shots on what specifically you are doing in Verbum that does not work. Did you know there are actually THREE versions (at least lol) of NASB in Logos/Verbum? See my screen shot here in Verbum 9.1, is it possible you are looking at the NASB and not the NASB95 or NASB95 Para version? I don't think NASB has interlinear support (Note no alpha/omega symbol at the top), which would affect Logos and Verbum:

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1142564#Comment_1142564

when I switch back and forth between Logos and Verbum, everything is the same. it's not going to change what edition of the Bible I'm using. But, yes, I checked just to be sure, and, yes, it's the same one.

I don't know what screen shot you want that would show you any more than I am telling you.

I click on the visual filters icon at the top of the panel. For the NASB, there isn't even a visual filter option. For all the other Bibles I use, there are about 30 visual filters that show up. I switch back to Logos, and it's there.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1142567#Comment_1142567

Anyone else feeling like this thread is a version of "Who's on first?"

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1142570#Comment_1142570

Larry - please do this.

1. From the keyboard hit Cmd+Shift+I (if you are on a Mac) or Ctrl+Shift+I (if you are on Windows). This is, on Windows for example, the keys Control, Shift, and the letter 'I' as in Indiana.

2. At the bottom, you will see 'Support' Info so it expands with information underneath. Click on it to reveal the information, something like this:

write down the 3 lines of information so you can tell us what it says.

3. Go to Verbum. Click on your NASB there. Do the same thing, from the keyboard hit Cmd+Shift+I (if you are on a Mac) or Ctrl+Shift+I (if you are on Windows).

4. At the bottom, you will see 'Support'. Click on it to reveal the information; write it down so you can tell us what it says.

Please reply back to this thread, with the information, all 3 lines, for both:

Logos:

LLS:xxxxxxx

<some date info>

<name>.logos4

Verbum:

LLS:xxxxxxx

<some date info>

<name>.logos4

If you give us this information, we might be able to explain what is happening.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1142577#Comment_1142577

LLS:1.0.71
2019-09-20T19:21:55Z
NASB95.logos4
RVI:NASBNT
2019-09-20T19:05:51Z
NASBNT.lbsrvi
RVI:NASBOT
2019-09-20T19:05:51Z
NASBOT.lbsrvi

I had shut Verbum, but I reopened it to follow your instructions. Now 4 visual filters out of around 30 are showing up. The Greek Old and New Testament, and the Hebrew Bible all work fine.

Oh, and the support information is the same as for the NASB in my Logos, which works fine

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1142567#Comment_1142567

I don't know what screen shot you want that would show you any more than I am telling you.

That's actually a really good reason to supply a screenshot, oddly enough.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1142582#Comment_1142582

LLS:1.0.71
2019-09-20T19:21:55Z
NASB95.logos4
RVI:NASBNT
2019-09-20T19:05:51Z
NASBNT.lbsrvi
RVI:NASBOT
2019-09-20T19:05:51Z
NASBOT.lbsrvi

OK this is the NASB1995 version, which of course has interlinears as this shows.

What is the info that you see under support for the Verbum version? Unless, does it work fine now after you restarted? If not, same information from Information/Support info on your NASB Bible under Verbum, please.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1142583#Comment_1142583

I can't take a screen shot of a drop down menu. The menu closes as soon as I do something else.

So what screen shot would anyone want? Of what?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1142588#Comment_1142588

I copied that from the Verbum version and it's the same in the Logos one.

No, it doesn't work fine now, but 4 visual filters showed up out of 30. And it works fine for all the other resources I have open. Problem with just this one.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1142590#Comment_1142590

I can't take a screen shot of a drop down menu. The menu closes as soon as I do something else.

On Windows 10, taking a screenshot using a keyboard shortcut won't close the visual filters dropdown in Verbum; I just double-checked that. The keyboard shortcut varies by kayboard and by your settings; you may have a PrtSc key that does it without anything else, or you may need to combined it with pressing Fn, or something else might be required.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1142591#Comment_1142591

OK, if the Info is the same yet a Visual Filter works on Logos but not on Verbum, we have at least eliminated a resource difference, that's good.

My screen shot up above shows both English and Hebrew Visual filter works fine in the same resource you are using, so something else is going on! It would seem it's either a problem with the Visual Filter, or the Filter is not turned on. I guess it could be a corrupted resource file in the Verbum download since you just did that. Maybe others have some other ideas.

So how about this next - can you take a picture of the Visual Filter pane of the Filter that is not working in Verbum? As a minimum, if there is not an obvious problem we can try it. You should open the appropriate filter pane by clicking on Docs on your menu bar. It should look something like this when you open it.

Take a screen shot of it and post it here!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1142596#Comment_1142596

Like I said, this works for all my other Bibles. It works in Logos, the same Bible, but not here.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1142604#Comment_1142604

Like I said, this works for all my other Bibles. It works in Logos, the same Bible, but not here.

To me, it still sounds like you had ticked "off" the VF document in Verbum which works for this in Logos because it's "on".

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1142604#Comment_1142604

If you run a search for that lemma in the NASB do you get any results?

My guess at the moment is that this is an indexing problem.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1142608#Comment_1142608

I don't know how to do that. But like I said, after restarting the program I have 4 visual filters that show up out about 30.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1142609#Comment_1142609

My guess at the moment is that this is an indexing problem.

In which case I would think the command Reindex New American Standard Bible: 1995 Update might fix it.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1142609#Comment_1142609

yup. got results.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1142611#Comment_1142611

But why would it work fine in Logos?

Here's another question. Maybe you can answer it here.

I have been using verbum all along. But I use it from Logos. Type in go box, something like turn Verbum to on.

But now I tried using Verbum as a stand alone program. Now there's a problem

Why?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1142610#Comment_1142610

I don't know how to do that. But like I said, after restarting the program I have 4 visual filters that show up out about 30.

Like this. Look into the Logos and the Verbum lists of VFs and make sure they are the same (normally they sync between Logos and Verbum, maybe your sync took a bit so the four active VFs came through)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1142611#Comment_1142611

I just did that. I see no indication of anything happening, but no, nothing changed. I am in the middle now of my third huge download since I opened Verbum as a separate program rather than just switching in Logos. Another 2.5G/

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1142615#Comment_1142615

For the same resource, NASB 1995, in Logos I have about 30 VF. Right now in Verbum I have 4.

Wait, let me correct that. I use Verbum all the time. I just switch to it in Logos. It's when I open Verbum as a separate program that I have this problem.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1142616#Comment_1142616

I just did that. I see no indication of anything happening, but no, nothing changed. I am in the middle now of my third huge download since I opened Verbum as a separate program rather than just switching in Logos. Another 2.5G/

Being in the middle of massive downloads could very easily be causing your problem. Once they're done and everything is indexed, your problem should be gone.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1142623#Comment_1142623

The problem existed before the downloads and doesn't explain why only the one Bible has this problem. And, like I said, at first no visual filters were showing, now 4 do. But let's see what the downloads bring, and when the program settles down again, we'll see what happens.

Actually I closed Verbum and am working in Logos, the Verbum edition, because the download seemed to be slowing things down all across the programs. This has been taking too much time up. I need to get some things done. Verbum in Logos is working fine. It's only when I tried using Verbum as a standalone product. Three major downloads in two days.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1142625#Comment_1142625

because the download seemed to be slowing things down all across the programs

The received wisdom is to initiate large downloads (and the subsequent indexing) before retiring. That way you both get up in the morning refreshed and ready to go.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1142715#Comment_1142715

Thanks, Mike

I did that last night. This morning, I can't even open a layout. It's downloading and indexing more stuff. I think it's affectng the whole computer. I had trouble even opening the internet. I shut the whole thing down. Maybe I'll open it again when I go to bed.

thanks again

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1142727#Comment_1142727

Larry, what you have going on is basically a brand new installation of Verbum. It needs time to get set up:

1. Downloads software (done for you)

2. Downloads Resources

3. Downloads other - datasets, for example

4. Syncs all your customizations - visual filters, documents, collections info, etc.

5. Indexes everything - bibles, resources, etc.

Depending on internet speed and computer performance - CPU and disk, this can take a long time. Also, if things get interrupted, it could go back to the safest prior checkpoint and resume when you start up again (although some things continue on in a background process, like indexing). So if someone shuts things down too quickly, or tries tto use the program while all this is going on, it can greatly slow down its progress, and or even cause it to spin its wheels.

So - all that is to say it needs to finish. Once it is truly finished (there are ways to know that if you need help), it runs much quicker, as most things are done "incrementally". Until it's finished, things will run slowly or may even run incorrectly. So definitely, let it run overnight and not knowing how much has to be downloaded or processed, so not knowing how long it will take based on your internet or computer, it will run well tomorrow - if finished!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1142735#Comment_1142735

Thank you

Somebody suggested on the Logos Tips FB page about opening both Logos and Verbum at the same time. I didn't really think it all through, but I wish Logos would have said something before downloading duplicate files that they are duplicate files.

In fact, I had been running Verbum for some time now. I just switched to it from Logos. So I don't know what changed when I downloaded Verbum 9. Logos should have kept its users better informed when they get or do downloads

Thanks again

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1142727#Comment_1142727

I did that last night.

This setting, or its equivalent in that other OS, will be your friend.

No point leaving it unattended if it takes the huff and shuts itself off.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1142747#Comment_1142747

but I wish Logos would have said something before downloading duplicate files that they are duplicate files.

There are myriad posts on the forum where folk have asked about running two instances on their machine at the same time. Almost to a (hu)man they have decided against.

The exception that proves the rule is the MVP who keeps a second instance on his machine with the bare minimum of resources necessary to make it viable. He uses this as a demonstration installation. He is very odd.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1142749#Comment_1142749

There are myriad posts on the forum where folk have asked about running two instances on their machine at the same time. Almost to a (hu)man they have decided against.

The exception that proves the rule is the MVP who keeps a second instance on his machine with the bare minimum of resources necessary to make it viable.

Mike, I want to differ. I read a lot on the forums, but somehow have missed the myriad posts you remember. To the contrary, I think that a number of users run two instances (namely Logos and Verbum) on their machine - one prominent example for doing so would be the private beta for a new release, other users run a stable version and the open beta concurrently all the time. Actually I believe that prior to the L9 release probably more MVPs ran two instances in parallel than not. The same goes for other L9 beta testers.

I haven't read about any functional issues at all - and not only when one of the instances is a 'bare minimum' installation which is only used for demo purposes. To make beta testing realistic, it would need for running two full-blown libraries. In fact, I did for long periods of time, including the L8 and L9 private betas and currently do so as well. I have Logos 9 (stable channel) installed on an internal SSD and Verbum 9 (beta channel) on an external SSD attached via USB - just for size reasons. It does require disk space twice for my library (which made me buy the USB-SSD), but that's it. No issues at all - of course, the second instance needs to be completely installed and have all indexing done to work properly.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1142757#Comment_1142757

I also have two installations - both of Logos under different Windows accounts!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1142748#Comment_1142748

I don't see this option in my computer. It just asks me how many minutes before it puts the computer to sleep.

Windows 10

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1142768#Comment_1142768

I don't see this option in my computer. It just asks me how many minutes before it puts the computer to sleep.

Set it to, say, 600 minutes, and you'll probably be good to go.

There are myriad posts on the forum where folk have asked about running two instances on their machine at the same time. Almost to a (hu)man they have decided against.

While I agree with you that at least most people who ask on the forums about doing this decide not to, I agree with NB.Mick and Graham that lots of people run, either all the time or some of the time, multiple installations on the same device, often for beta testing of some kind. I've done that for beta testing purposes myself.

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