Remove intrusive tool tips form Lexham Hebrew-English Interlinear Bible

I use the Lexham Hebrew-English Interlinear Bible nearly every day (I'm a Bible translator), and I have the following problem. When I hover my mouse over the text, I get a tool tip close to the cursor, like this (the top circled one, that says "[ a ] indicates that a...":

If I go to Program Settings and set "Show Information Tool Tips" to "No," the helpful morphological information at the bottom of the panel stops showing, but I continue to get the (unhelpful) tool tip at the cursor location which obscures the text.

Even worse, if I select a word in the interlinear so that I visually identify nearby identical lemmas/roots (in Visual Filters I select: Corresponding Words: Same Lemma / Same Root), then the intrusive tool tip stays on the screen even after I've moved the mouse. It also prevents me from scrolling using the scroll wheel on my mouse, since apparently the tool tip becomes the "active" content.

I have searched many times for a way to change the program's behavior with respect to this tool tip, and I have so far been unsuccessful.

If anyone knows how to fix this, I'd appreciate your help. If it's unfixable, I'd appreciate advice on how to submit a bug report that will be read by the developers.

image_2020-12-14_095927.png

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Comments

DMB

You don't want this comment, but that's been around for about 10 years, when Andersen-Forbes got removed ... the popup got even more headachy when the footnote popup overlayed the info-tip popup for text near the bottom of the panel. I think they fixed that.

The normal work-around (which doesn't work), would be to set resource columns to '1', which would then force the footnote down below. The footnote indeed is displayed below, but the popup is still active!

Unfortunately, the behavior is any resource with a footnote ... but is worst with morph'd interlinears ... LHI, LXX-Swt, etc.

In theory, you'd create an entry in feedback, and people 'vote' ... hopefully someone knows how for that.

Graham Criddle

When this was raised last year - https://community.logos.com/forums/t/182883.aspx - Dave suggested using the Lexham Hebrew Bible instead. Would that work for you - or do you need the Interlinear information?

Joshua Jensen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1142850#Comment_1142850

Having the information provided by an interlinear is a big help. Unlike the other poster (in the linked discussion), I keep lemmas and glosses visible at all times -- this speeds up my work. So getting the tool tips fixed would be preferable to abandoning what is otherwise a very good resource.

Joshua Jensen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1142852#Comment_1142852

I just submitted a bug report via email. But if anyone else has an idea... (Maybe this is already fixed in 9! Or maybe not.)

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1142853#Comment_1142853

(Maybe this is already fixed in 9! Or maybe not.)

I'm afraid the behaviour is unchanged in Logos 9

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1142853#Comment_1142853

I just submitted a bug report via email.

Bug reports that report the system working as designed, i.e. reporting concerns of application design, usually get converted to a request for a new/changed function. Adding it to Roadmap | Faithlife Feedback and showing that it has user support is usually a more effective approach. I know because I've had several bug reports logged as suggestion. [:)]

SineNomine

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1142857#Comment_1142857

I just submitted a bug report via email.

Bug reports that report the system working as designed, i.e. reporting concerns of application design, usually get converted to a request for a new/changed function. Adding it to Roadmap | Faithlife Feedback and showing that it has user support is usually a more effective approach. I know because I've had several bug reports logged as suggestion.

Joshua, if you add it, I'll vote for it.

Joshua Jensen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1143031#Comment_1143031

Please vote:

https://feedback.faithlife.com/boards/logos-desktop-app/posts/change-tool-tip-behavior-in-interlinears

David Paul

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1143242#Comment_1143242

With just a little bit of meta-cognitive attention to detail, it isn't that hard to figure out how to keep the pop-up from popping up. I'm not completely sure what kinds of changes have been made to LHI recently, though I'm pretty sure that there are some text feature updates that have changed how some things operate. I notice that when I hover the cursor over either the parenthesis (pic 1 below) or bracket (pic 2), the associated pop-up appears--which is fine and how things have always occurred.

Pic 1

Pic 2

What is annoying is that the pop-up appears when the cursor is over the main text feature (top line) and with a cumulative effect (showing the superscript "a" note--found just above the bracket; the parenthesis note; and the bracket note...see below), which doesn't make any sense and I think is a fairly new phenomenon.

That should be changed and removed immediately. The reason is because there is no reason for this info to present here--it already presents in the places it should as shown above. However, regarding the avoidance of pop-ups, if you hover over the lemma feature (second line), then you don't have a pop-up that appears.

Another feature that seems new is this action box that appears when you select a portion of text. I never noticed this in L7. When was that added? L8?

Just to be clear, the cumulative pop-up on the top line is unnecessary and thus ought to be removed altogether. The other pop-ups are appropriate, as they only appear when specifically hovered over. I want to make clear that legitimate pop-ups should not be eliminated (though having an option to turn them off is acceptable if needed). In the past, certain highly useful pop-ups have been eliminated simply because some noisy users lacked the elementary discipline to control their cursor position and they complained about pop-ups blocking or hogging screen real estate. That is extraordinarily offensive, because one customer's laziness and lack of personal discipline resulted in the loss of program functionality for those who relied on it. That should never happen.

I have a question that I very much want an answer to: Is there a list of what has been changed in LHI over, say, the last five years? If so, where is that list? If such a list doesn't exist, it should.

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1143529#Comment_1143529

Another feature that seems new is this action box that appears when you select a portion of text. I never noticed this in L7. When was that added? L8?

It was introduced in 8.7 as per https://wiki.logos.com/Logos_8.7

It can be enabled / disabled using the Show Selection Menu toggle in Program Settings

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1143529#Comment_1143529

I have a question that I very much want an answer to: Is there a list of what has been changed in LHI over, say, the last five years?

Logos Release History has it

Joshua Jensen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1143529#Comment_1143529

With just a little bit of meta-cognitive attention to detail, it isn't that hard to figure out how to keep the pop-up from popping up. I'm not completely sure what kinds of changes have been made to LHI recently, though I'm pretty sure that there are some text feature updates that have changed how some things operate. I notice that when I hover the cursor over either the parenthesis (pic 1 below) or bracket (pic 2), the associated pop-up appears--which is fine and how things have always occurred.

[...]

What is annoying is that the pop-up appears when the cursor is over the main text feature (top line) and with a cumulative effect (showing the superscript "a" note--found just above the bracket; the parenthesis note; and the bracket note...see below), which doesn't make any sense and I think is a fairly new phenomenon.

Thanks, David Paul, for clarifying what the problem actually is. I've added a comment on my feedback post referring back to your post and noting that I'm not asking for tool tips to be turned off when the user hovers over the actual feature itself. As far as I'm concerned, that behavior doesn't even need to be under the user's control (that is, we don't need an option to turn it on or off).

When I reported this problem via email to support, they said they investigated it and the feature is working as intended. I think David Paul's work here shows that that is almost certainly not the case. Why would the tool tips be tied to the actual features explained in the lower interlinear lines, but on the top line they show up cumulatively, and without any sort of context-dependence? Surely no one really meant for things to behave like that!

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1143691#Comment_1143691

I cannot replicate David Paul's results because it depends upon how one prioritizes resources, tool tip setting, etc. etc. Please remember that what you see is not what all users see or what all users want to see. What may be duplicated data in your layout may not be for another - we pick and choose the lines shown by an interlinear. What may appear duplicated in your layout may not be for someone with a different lexicon as their first choice.

Your complaints are legitimate for how you have set your app up. It is appropriate to suggest that the design be reconsidered. But please, don't assume you are speaking of the universal experience -- there is no such thing.

Joshua Jensen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1143694#Comment_1143694

I cannot replicate David Paul's results because it depends upon how one prioritizes resources, tool tip setting, etc. etc. Please remember that what you see is not what all users see or what all users want to see. What may be duplicated data in your layout may not be for another - we pick and choose the lines shown by an interlinear. What may appear duplicated in your layout may not be for someone with a different lexicon as their first choice.

Could you be a bit more explicit about which results you can't replicate? I'm curious whether the primary problem I raised at the beginning (irrelevant tool tips showing when you hover over the manuscript line) is not actually universal.

(Clarification: "irrelevant" because explaining what a slash is doing when I hover over a word or line with no slash is surely universally unhelpful.)

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1143529#Comment_1143529

What is annoying is that the pop-up appears when the cursor is over the main text feature (top line) and with a cumulative effect (showing the superscript "a" note--found just above the bracket; the parenthesis note; and the bracket note...see below), which doesn't make any sense and I think is a fairly new phenomenon.

Replicated Lexham Hebrew Interlinear (LHI) annoying popup appearing during hover on Manuscript line:

Would appreciate annoying pop-up only appearing when English Literal Translation line is displayed in LHI (ideally when mouse hovers on English Translation Line).

Keep Smiling [:)]

MJ. Smith

I hadn't tried to recreate yours - I'd tried David Paul's.

When I hover my mouse over the text, I get a tool tip close to the cursor, like this (the top circled one, that says "[ a ] indicates that a...":

What you are objecting to here is how Logos handles what is handled by a legend box in a hard copy of the resource. I would personally prefer an actual legend box but I understand why many prefer an automatic interpretation of the coding.

Even worse, if I select a word in the interlinear so that I visually identify nearby identical lemmas/roots (in Visual Filters I select: Corresponding Words: Same Lemma / Same Root), then the intrusive tool tip stays on the screen even after I've moved the mouse.

I get the tool tip remaining only on click but not on hover. I'm not sure what the standard is elsewhere in the program so I don't know if this is by design, but it seems reasonable to me to be able to chose to retain or close the popup.

It also prevents me from scrolling using the scroll wheel on my mouse, since apparently the tool tip becomes the "active" content.

You are correct that when I have clicked to freeze the popup, the wheel is disabled. It makes sense to me that if one has clicked to freeze the popup, you're stuck having to read it ... yes, it does add a step to dismiss the popup .

It seems to me that a chunk of your issues might improve by the use of hover rather than click.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1143700#Comment_1143700

To reiterate, the bracket-popup on the mss line occurred, when they switched out the morph source, I think around L5 or 6. The original design had (and still has) the popup only on the 2 english lines.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1143708#Comment_1143708

the popup only on the 2 english lines.

Ugh ... it logically belongs on the symbol being translated ... not even on a whole word/lemma/...

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1143738#Comment_1143738

the popup only on the 2 english lines.

Ugh ... it logically belongs on the symbol being translated ... not even on a whole word/lemma/...

Ugh ... Bump (Concur)

Keep Smiling [:)]

David Paul

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1144165#Comment_1144165

I was intending to mention this above but couldn't find an example earlier. While the extraneous and inappropriate pop-up discussed above needs to be addressed, I do not find it nearly as egregious as this LHI faux pas. In multiple hundreds of places in LHI, users are confronted with this abdication of responsibility by FL. As the pic below shows...

...there are numerous places where the user is told to MANUALLY "see KB & BDB". This is outrageous. If there is something worthy of the user's attention in those resources then Logos good and well ought to LINK TO THOSE RESOURCES!!! Telling the user to generically and indiscriminately "see" other resources fails to 1) indicate what the user is supposed to be looking for or why the user should follow this advice, and 2) if it is merely to "see" the corresponding lexical entry, then POST A LINK TO THAT (or those) ENTRY (-ies).

This falls into the same category as the still numerous unlinked citations and other dead links in Logos that have never been activated. Apart from adding missing L3 functionality to the current build, there is nothing that is of a higher priority to resolve in Logos.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1144444#Comment_1144444

Poor me. I thought that if I hovered on a footnote (or other annotation symbol) I should expect to see the footnote. You're telling me I shouldn't and that there is another esoteric method of seeing footnotes? more esoteric than switching to page mode?

David Paul

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1144445#Comment_1144445

Poor me. I thought that if I hovered on a footnote (or other annotation symbol) I should expect to see the footnote. You're telling me I shouldn't and that there is another esoteric method of seeing footnotes? more esoteric than switching to page mode?

You act as though LHI isn't a Lexham product and therefore under the full authority and control of FL. FL publishes LHI, so whatever it contains is within their purview and responsibility. Your pedestrian "but that's what it says" comment about footnotes entirely misses the point...points, actually. First, WHY have a footnote of such an unhelpful nature? Second, if you do in fact believe that there is value in the idea (see "x"), follow through!! Plain and simple, THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT THEY DO WITH THE ADJACENT FOOTNOTE.

If Lexham can include the link for Swanson, they can just as easily include the links for HALOT & BDB. Easy-peasy and consistent...not to mention, the right thing to do.

Sometimes, MJ, I think you argue with me just because it's me.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1144456#Comment_1144456

Sometimes, MJ, I think you argue with me just because it's me.

You do tempt me. Dad and I used to drive Mother nuts while we enjoyed a verbal logic match ...

You act as though LHI isn't a Lexham product and therefore under the full authority and control of FL

No, I just value consistency in behavior more than you while you value convenience in a specific instance more than I.

David Paul

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1144496#Comment_1144496

No, I just value consistency in behavior more than you while you value convenience in a specific instance more than I.

Hmmmmm...[*-)]

I thought for sure I was advocating for consistency of how HALOT & BDB are handled in line with how DBLH is presented.

Marc van Eijden

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1142856#Comment_1142856

Unfortunately it is still not fixed in Logos 10. And it would be great if this would be fixed!!!

Marc van Eijden

I share this same concerne.