Is There a Place to Engage with the Faithlife/Logos Community other than these Forums?

I am a recent WS-to-Logos user and have found these forums very helpful while learning Logos. But now I have a question about content in the Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture. (I have the resource on Kindle, not yet on Logos even though it's available on Logos.)

Because my question is NOT a software-related question, and your forum policies ask us NOT to discuss theology or "spiritual content" questions, I'm wondering if there is another way to "tap into" the Faithlife/Logos Community for this type of question.

To be specific, and because I'm NOT a seminary student or pastor (just an eager learner of the Word), I'm baffled by a number of statements in the section, "A Gentle Caveat for Those Who Expect Ancient Writers to Conform to Modern Assumptions." Clearly, the editors of this series are identifying an ongoing debate between ancient and modern exegesis. I didn't know there was one!

If nothing is available here, can you recommend another forum or website? Thank you.

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Comments

DMB

Appreciate your concern!

My impression is the problem is 'I'm right!', that invites 'No, you're not!!'. And seriously downhill from there. Discussion to clarify resources in Logos.com is pretty common ... and educational as well.

Regarding your question on exegesis, I'm guessing that the authors are speaking to the timing of various doctrines, both in the Catholic sphere, and later Protestant. One of the more well-known, was Origen, who went from well-regarded to 'heretic' in a single generation.

Regarding ACC, buy it in Logos (wait for a sale or package)! It's linkable to your Bible, and includes many ancient writers not included in larger ancient-writer collections. Very useful.

Paul Caneparo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1145094#Comment_1145094

Appreciate your concern!

My impression is the problem is 'I'm right!', that invites 'No, you're not!!'. And seriously downhill from there. Discussion to clarify resources in Logos.com is pretty common ... and educational as well.

Regarding your question on exegesis, I'm guessing that the authors are speaking to the timing of various doctrines, both in the Catholic sphere, and later Protestant. One of the more well-known, was Origen, who went from well-regarded to 'heretic' in a single generation.

Regarding ACC, buy it in Logos (wait for a sale or package)! It's linkable to your Bible, and includes many ancient writers not included in larger ancient-writer collections. Very useful.

It is on sale this month.

https://www.logos.com/product/31152/ancient-christian-commentary-on-scripture-complete-set-updated-edition-accs

SineNomine

Because my question is NOT a software-related question, and your forum policies ask us NOT to discuss theology or "spiritual content" questions, I'm wondering if there is another way to "tap into" the Faithlife/Logos Community for this type of question.

Yes: https://faithlife.com/

Sharon Hillam

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1145094#Comment_1145094

Discussion to clarify resources in Logos.com is pretty common ... and educational as well.

Good to know. Will keep this in mind. Thanks!

Sharon Hillam

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1145097#Comment_1145097

It is on sale this month.

Thanks, Paul. IF I only had a spare $250 laying around...LOL! For now, I'll just use my Kindle version. I only have it for Gen 1-11, and I've not spent much time with it, which is what led to my question about the section in the Front Matter. I know $250 is a bargain, but I can't justify spending that much at the moment. I know Logos allows you to buy singles of the set for $25 each. I may opt to go that route. Not sure yet...but thanks, again.

Sharon Hillam

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1145143#Comment_1145143

Sine, I tried the link, but it only takes me to MyFaithLife...and all I see there are a couple of media I uploaded by mistake. Nowhere did I see a way to get to a community discussion or forum. I'm not at all familiar with the faithlife website. It's all I can do to manage Logos! [:)]

SineNomine

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1145166#Comment_1145166

Sine, I tried the link, but it only takes me to MyFaithLife...and all I see there are a couple of media I uploaded by mistake. Nowhere did I see a way to get to a community discussion or forum.

You can post to "My Faithlife", which is apt to attract comments from others. You can also find a group relevant to your concern(s), but that's more complicated.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1145166#Comment_1145166

Depending upon your learning style, this book is a good start for understanding ancient methods and how they differ from contemporary methods. Biblical Interpretation Then and Now: Contemporary Hermeneutics in the Light of the Early Church | Logos Bible Software

Paul Caneparo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1145165#Comment_1145165

It is on sale this month.

Thanks, Paul. IF I only had a spare $250 laying around...LOL! For now, I'll just use my Kindle version. I only have it for Gen 1-11, and I've not spent much time with it, which is what led to my question about the section in the Front Matter. I know $250 is a bargain, but I can't justify spending that much at the moment. I know Logos allows you to buy singles of the set for $25 each. I may opt to go that route. Not sure yet...but thanks, again.

I don't buy sets for the same reason and prefer to pick off individual resources I want - especially if on sale.

Olli-Pekka Ylisuutari

Hello, Sharon, and Merry Christmas!

I have found that as long as you don't make the subject of your inquiry a personal truth matter, but rather take it as a question of different resources and good recommendations in Logos, the forum leaves much liberty at discussing - even hotly debated subjects.

To put it in another way: as long as you don't discuss as to how subject x truthfully is, but rather how Mr./Dr./Rev./Mrs./Ms. Y in his/her book deals with the subject x, you are sailing on much safer waters.

As to the question on the debate between ancient and modern exegesis, many Logos BP's (Base Packages) include the Lexham Bible Dictionary, which has this interesting article on the history of hermeneutics. Should be widely available at low cost, as part of, e.g. Logos Basic.

David Thomas

If nothing is available here, can you recommend another forum or website? Thank you.

SUGGESTION: Try searching for and joining some "groups" on faithlife.com to get interaction with users of similar interest.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1145216#Comment_1145216

As to the question on the debate between ancient and modern exegesis, many Logos BP's (Base Packages) include the Lexham Bible Dictionary, which has this interesting article on the history of hermeneutics. Should be widely available at low cost, as part of, e.g. Logos Basic.

Thankful for Lexham Bible Dictionary being included in the free Lexham Intro Collection (5 vols.)

Keep Smiling [:)]

Sharon Hillam

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1145172#Comment_1145172

Depending upon your learning style, this book is a good start for understanding ancient methods and how they differ from contemporary methods. Biblical Interpretation Then and Now: Contemporary Hermeneutics in the Light of the Early Church | Logos Bible Software

Looks like a great book! Thanks, M.J. I'll at least add it to my ever-growing Wish List. [:)]

Sharon Hillam

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1145216#Comment_1145216

I have found that as long as you don't make the subject of your inquiry a personal truth matter, but rather take it as a question of different resources and good recommendations in Logos, the forum leaves much liberty at discussing - even hotly debated subjects.

To put it in another way: as long as you don't discuss as to how subject x truthfully is, but rather how Mr./Dr./Rev./Mrs./Ms. Y in his/her book deals with the subject x, you are sailing on much safer waters.

This is VERY good news because I have already found that Logos customer service (sales) isn't nearly as informative about resources as those of you here on the Forums are.

And I have the Lexham Bible Dictionary. I had it even before I upgrade to the Logos 9 Gold pkg.

Sharon Hillam

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1145271#Comment_1145271

SUGGESTION: Try searching for and joining some "groups" on faithlife.com to get interaction with users of similar interest.

Hi David, hey I tried just now to look for groups to join but I don't know what to search for and I didn't see a way to browse existing groups. All I see on my screen is the + to create a new group...and I sure don't want that. Somehow I managed to get on the Ron Rhodes group because it's there, but for the life of me, I have no idea how or even when I did it.

Is there a way to browse existing groups so I can see what's available?

Thanks. You're always helpful.

David Thomas

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1145319#Comment_1145319

Is there a way to browse existing groups so I can see what's available?

It has been so long, I had to poke around to figure this out. [^o)] I typed "logos" into the search at the TOP of the page, rather than the side column and it provided quite a list to browse.

Sharon Hillam

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1145355#Comment_1145355

I typed "logos" into the search at the TOP of the page, rather than the side column and it provided quite a list to browse.

Got it! Will check it out. Thanks, again!

Greg Dement

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1145216#Comment_1145216

I hope I frame this question correctly and in full respect for forum guidelines. I believe it would be correct to say that despite denominational, theological, etc differences at it’s fundamental foundation Logos stands for Christianity. I understand there are books offered that may fall outside of this so that we may educate ourselves to defend against it.
My question is where is a line drawn or is there a line drawn by FaithLife/Logos? For example having a book available to purchase for study would be one line, having a book promoted as e-book of the week or Logos deal of the day would be a quite different line. One could make a case that current books being promoted this way could fall into that concern. Thoughts?

Mike Binks

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1145391#Comment_1145391

Thoughts?

Logos is a program (resource supplier) for grown-up people. Those who have gone past the milk feeding stage and need some more substantial food.

As in all aspects of life and especially of leadership, it is as dangerous to surround oneself with 'yes books' as it is with 'yes men'. There comes a point in which we all need to open ourselves up to the opinions of those who disagree with us.

When we do that we either discount them because we understand there thought processes and reject them or we change because we find that something in their propositions fills a whole that we may not have noticed we had.

I want the 'yes books' promoted and I want the 'this will challenge you' books promoted.

I, for example, have a lot to learn from my current study 'Never use mixed metaphors in the Forums'.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1145391#Comment_1145391

despite denominational, theological, etc differences at it’s fundamental foundation Logos stands for [modern] Christianity.

I hope Sharon is successfully proceeding apace (her thread).

I edited the quote. My observation is that Logos began in maybe '1970s Christianity' (basically up to L2). Then, they went through an early 1900s Christianity, which dealt heavily with OL, and nearby cultures. Then, maybe around L7 or so, they switched to evangelical Chistianity, with a business toe-hold in Catholic, and blind-eye to mainline protestant.

Right now, it looks like a ship awash in soft-sell. Surprisingly, the magazine seems on a different voyage.

Greg Dement

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1145396#Comment_1145396

Mike, appreciate you taking the time to comment and don’t disagree with anything you said. However I would make a few comments.

Logos is not “exclusively“ for grown-ups and those beyond drinking milk:

I have recommended Logos to several brand new Christians and believe it to be a great resource for them.

Also, there is no age requirement and there are junior high and high school kids that use Logos.

Let me to offer some context, the reason I asked my original question was considering getting packages for my children, one a pre-teen.

If they exist, it would be useful to know if there are any content lines/restrictions/policies established. For example, I think it is safe for me to know that pornography is not going to be available in Logos. I would not be comfortable if the deal of the day were (made up name to make a point) “Using Ouija to Find Jesus”, I would not want that promoted to my child. If made up book existed and were available for purchase that would be one thing and as a parent could use that info to make up my mind if Logos access is appropriate for my child or not. If that same book were “promoted” that would be of greater concern. Without espousing that what I think is what anyone else should think, the enneagram stuff being actively promoted this week has made me think that for my pre-teen child Logos would not be appropriate. For my more mature teenage child maybe they are better prepared to discern a topic like that, not sure yet. Before this promotion it never occurred to me that there could be a possible cause for concern in my child accessing Logos. Really don’t want to start a debate on what is vs what is not appropriate as that is subjective, just want to know what policies may exist and where I could view them if they do. (Sharon, sorry not trying to hijack your thread the title seemed similar)

xnman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1145396#Comment_1145396

Mike Binks ---- many times even today, I can read the comics in the newspapers and be challenged... so much I need to learn. The more I learn, the more I realize I don't know much.

[:S]

Sharon Hillam

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1145400#Comment_1145400

I hope Sharon is successfully proceeding apace (her thread).

This thread has been quite insightful, mostly in that I've learned I have a bit more room-to-roam here in the forums, especially when it comes to someone recommending a resource that would help clarify or even challenge (Yes, Mike, I read your comment and agree...it's good to be challenged) another position. I much prefer the Forums anyway. But then...that's simply because I have not yet learned another way of interacting with the Faithlife/Logos community.

While I briefly looked at the Groups in Faithlife, at the moment, my hands are full just learning Logos. The last thing I need right now is anything added to my "need to learn this, too" list. [;)]

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1145452#Comment_1145452

my hands are full just learning Logos

Well, it might help to explain why the answers to your quest may seem less than enthused (it's not you).

In the past, the forum has sponsored some pretty wild/offensive discussions. FL has been pretty patient, in hopes we're not all insane. But they did pay for a separate site, where folks could discuss 'in earnest', without too much offense. The site was quite nice, but it slowly boiled down to a few discuss'ers. And the coder had left FL, so maintenance became a chore. A forumite (I think Jan) took it over for while, but interest declined even further. I think it's pretty much gone.

Separately, FL built another function (the one you explored). As you noticed, it's not too easy to get involved, but largely supports specific issues that 'members' of the larger FL family hope to solve ... maybe special documents, theologies, church groups and so forth. It comes complete with open and closed membership, depending.

Lastly, on Facebook, there's various Logos? groups that seem to come and go, over time.

I wrote the above, since other WS folks might also wonder. Essentially, Bob's idea of Christians at a coffeetable (the FL CEO) works pretty good. Everyone knows there's disagreement and personal beliefs, so you try not to offend, but still ask as needed. Hopefully there's a book, a web article, or a Logos/Verbum search that can help. The forum rules get mentioned, after the coffee gets spilled.

Sharon Hillam

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1145458#Comment_1145458

The forum rules get mentioned, after the coffee gets spilled.

Great way to put it. Thanks for the explanation. I appreciate you're input here. It's been helpful. Blessings!

Sharon Hillam

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1145421#Comment_1145421

(Sharon, sorry not trying to hijack your thread the title seemed similar)

I prefer to think of your thread-in-a-thread as merely hopping on a train that was headed in the right direction. There's always plenty of space here for newbies. (I'm still a newbie myself, by the way.)

[:)]

Greg Dement

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1145485#Comment_1145485

Thanks Sharon, much like you I am not a student or pastor. I too am just an eager learner of the Word. I am about 4 months in on really using Logos and love it!

I really like the Ancient Christian Commentary that you mentioned. I often have that in my layout along with some more current commentaries to take in different perspectives. I admire your will power by showing control in saying no to buying certain resources at this and instead sticking to a budget. That has been a weakness of mine, spending way, way more than I ever imagined in such a short time.
Prayers that your eagerness for learning the Word to continue to grow!

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1145458#Comment_1145458

A forumite (I think Jan) took it over for while, but interest declined even further. I think it's pretty much gone.

Volume of replies varies at https://https://www.christiandiscourse.net/ that was created by Jan after FL's web site became non-responsive.

One Faithlife group for Theological discussion is Christian Debate => https://faithlife.com/christian-debate/activity

The forum rules get mentioned, after the coffee gets spilled.

Caveat: some forum replies need a coffee spill warning [C]

I want the 'yes books' promoted and I want the 'this will challenge you' books promoted.

I, for example, have a lot to learn from my current study 'Never use mixed metaphors in the Forums'.

+1 [Y] for challenging books while being Thankful for digital resources (instead of live humans with myopic vision about their own beliefs).

Thankful for many friendly forum, Faithlife, and Christian Debate discussions: have learned a lot plus have a lot to learn.

Keep Smiling [:)]

Mike Binks

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1145421#Comment_1145421

I would not be comfortable if the deal of the day were (made up name to make a point) “Using Ouija to Find Jesus”,

Then you should ban your child from Logos because they often promote apparently random books 'just because they are available'. You should also keep them well away from Waterstones and the local Library. Who knows what they will have in the window?

I have recommended Logos to several brand new Christians and believe it to be a great resource for them.

True, however, they will need guidance on what is good food, what is sentimental mush, and what is downright poisonous. All of which need to be available (and take their turn on promotions) so that these 'new' Christians learn discernment as well as wisdom.

Greg Dement

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1145510#Comment_1145510

Mike, sorry I don’t know how to show in my response who I am replying to. As I have perused the forums I am impressed with your knowledge and your walk. I see your comment was number 5050 for you, this is # 4 for me but due to my inability to be concise, I may have more total words in the forum after this post :-)

As I initially stated to you, I didn’t disagree with anything you initially said. I do think being challenged is important.

“Solicits” is probably a better word than promotes for me to have used since my concern was initiated by an email sent to me. You may know the email I am referring to. It said “These deals are so good, they won’t stay around long! Add new favorites to your library before the bargains disappear.” The first book featured of 3 in the email boasts “comprehensive way of accessing Enneagram wisdom and exploring its connections with Christian spirituality for a deeper knowledge of ourselves, compassion for others, and love for God.” Sounds wonderful, huh? I realize that not everyone has a problem with this but I do in that my child would have received this email from FL if I had already bought them a package.

My point was not to pick on the enneagram, it just happened to be the topic of the books in the email promo. Although I have very strong feelings against it, there are people I love who use the enneagram and they consider me closed minded. They do agree that it is extra-biblical, controversial and not something they think is appropriate for kids.

You commented I should ban my kids from Logos because of my issue with some content. I agree somewhat under current setup because I already stated that based on what I see I didn’t feel that Logos would be best for my pre-teen at this time. Disappointed that is the case.

Where I bristled a bit and would differ is equating Logos to a secular bookstore or the public library and that my kids “should stay well away”. Seemed to be passive-aggressively saying perhaps I am over protective? To me it is much more nuanced than you are acknowledging. Surely you would recognize there are differences. Differences in venues, in ages and in maturity levels. When considering Logos is it metaphorically rated G, PG, PG-13 or R? Is it out of line for me to inquire and have concerns?

Sorry, I may not be good at articulating in a forum format but I will try and again forgive me succinctness is not one of my gifts :-) Please hear me out.

-I would not allow either my children to go into a Wiccan/New Age bookstore.

-I would allow both of my children to go into a secular bookstore like Waterstones (we don’t have those but probably like Border’s here) Also knowing that what is curated for adults is different than what is in the children’s section and young adults section. Children’s guard is up because they know where they are.

-Amazon recognizes need for differences as they offer a Kids + membership “offering thousands of kid—friendly books” curation with children in mind. Even with that I know that this is a secular business and I understand it is not a Christian organization and they don’t pretend to be one and content expectations are such. Guard is up here too.

-I would allow both of my children to go to our public library. Again here there are adult sections, a young adult section and a whole different room that is for children. Although I wouldn’t personally be pleased if there were certain books in the window, it is a secular place, my expectations are in light of this. Children’s guard is up. I would have an issue if library actively solicited my children to read a book on the enneagram (perhaps in the form of an email my child would receive as a member).

-My church’s bookstore. I feel confident that the content and the church staff that work there create a safe environment. They also have a children’s section. I have zero concern that they would be approached with a book on this topic unless it was a book renouncing it.

-With Logos, a place I would send my child to grow closer to the Lord by enhancing Bible study, their guard regarding content may be lower in a perceived safe zone. A bit of wolf-in-sheep’s-clothing(ness) when content offered here vs secular store. Consideration for children having access does not appear to be a factor in determining content or what books are solicited. Maybe one day Logos will provide a child membership offering age appropriate content that could solve this.

In all the venues above, except Logos, they recognize the need for curation with children in mind (not sure about Wiccan/New Age store).

Sure I could do work arounds like using my email not theirs, etc. As I have thought through this more it goes further than that.

There are some junior high youth that are starting a Bible study and I had suggested Logos to them. My older daughter is leading a Bible study for younger girls and was considering suggesting to them. I would hate that this book got into their hands because a program I recommended for enhancing their Bible study was a conduit that enticed them into something I believe is wrong and some of their parents would have issues with as well.

“If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble! Such things must come, but woe to the person through whom they come!” Matthew‬ ‭18:6-7‬

Bottom line is that I am able to use Logos to significantly enhance my ability to study the Word, I love it and am a huge fan. I have been recommending it to people. I just wish there were considerations or options for children so I could be more comfortable in recommending more broadly without reservation moving forward. If you read this all the way through, thank you for “listening” and sorry this turned into me getting onto my soapbox. I plan to reach out to Logos to see if they can clarify some of this for me.

I truly appreciate you engaging and challenging me from your perspective. It has forced to think even deeper on this than I initially did.

In Christ’s love

Sharon Hillam

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1145488#Comment_1145488

I really like the Ancient Christian Commentary that you mentioned. I often have that in my layout along with some more current commentaries to take in different perspectives. I admire your will power by showing control in saying no to buying certain resources at this and instead sticking to a budget. That has been a weakness of mine, spending way, way more than I ever imagined in such a short time.
Prayers that your eagerness for learning the Word to continue to grow!

Thanks, Greg. I've been using Logos about the same amount of time, roughly 4 months. As a former computer programmer (old school, COBOL, RPG and such stuff that the young uns would be clueless about! LOL!), I'm SO impressed with how Logos has weathered the last three decades of the technology warp speed growth. Most software that was developed in the 90s has had to be abandoned as the foundational structure would be so obsolete, it wouldn't even be usable.

Yes, setting a budget and sticking with it is HARD in the land of Logos. TOO many temptations to buy more resources! Pray. Pray hard, is my motto! LOL!

Sharon Hillam

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1145490#Comment_1145490

Volume of replies varies at https://https://www.christiandiscourse.net/ that was created by Jan after FL's web site became non-responsive.

One Faithlife group for Theological discussion is Christian Debate => https://faithlife.com/christian-debate/activity

Thanks, KS. I took a quick look at both...BUT...neither seem the kind of discussions I'm interested in.

I think, from what Denise and Mike have shared here, it seems I'm "okay" with posting questions here in this forum that, in essence, WOULD be more along the lines of asking for recommendations on where to find answers rather than actually entering into lengthy debates.

And I most definitely wouldn't feel at home in a forum where folks needed to post coffee spill warnings. [;)]