Need book sample: Elizabeth Barrett's Enneagram books
None of the 9 books have a sample on its page.
Please provide a sample of at least one book.
I need to know how basic the series is.
Please let this thread know which books have a sample, for buyer convenience.
A unique series in FL, and so it begs for a sample.
Thank you
Comments
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Enneagram books? Really? I wonder what they are about. It's fun to do a test, but I don't think enneagrams are Biblical. The mirror of the Word of God is enough for me to see how I'm doing in every aspect of my life.
DAL
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DAL said:
Enneagram books? Really? I wonder what they are about. It's fun to do a test, but I don't think enneagrams are Biblical. The mirror of the Word of God is enough for me to see how I'm doing in every aspect of my life.
DAL
Marcia Montenegro wrote a great book on the occult origins of the enneagram last year, it’s a very eye opening read. Not sure why IVP and Zondervan keep trying to Christianize it.
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Scooter - I don't know which books you are referring to. Can you provide a link? Are these Logos or FLEB titles?
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Jon said:DAL said:
Enneagram books? Really? I wonder what they are about. It's fun to do a test, but I don't think enneagrams are Biblical. The mirror of the Word of God is enough for me to see how I'm doing in every aspect of my life.
DAL
Marcia Montenegro wrote a great book on the occult origins of the enneagram last year, it’s a very eye opening read. Not sure why IVP and Zondervan keep trying to Christianize it.
IVP and Zondervan are trying to make a buck out of it and since it's popular among people and "fun" in a way to take the test, that's why they're trying to capitalize on the "opportunity" to make some money out of it, even if it means compromising the Truth a bit.
The Gospel Coalition has some good articles related to enneagrams: https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=PvkZYMvdGYP45gLhx6ToCQ&iflsig=AINFCbYAAAAAYBoHTrsON-WsAEFCu3eYEKlcjx8JyI0f&q=enneagram+test+gospel+coalition&oq=enneagram+test+gospel+coalition&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQAzIGCAAQFhAeOggIABCxAxCDAToFCAAQsQM6CAguELEDEIMBOgIIADoICC4QxwEQowI6AgguOgUILhCxAzoECC4QCjoICC4QxwEQrwFQlA1Y1ElgkktoAXAAeAKAAZYFiAGzKpIBDDEzLjQuNC4xLjMuMpgBAKABAaoBB2d3cy13aXo&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwjL9KKbxczuAhUDvFkKHeEjCZ0Q4dUDCAk&uact=5
DAL
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Jon said:DAL said:
Enneagram books? Really? I wonder what they are about. It's fun to do a test, but I don't think enneagrams are Biblical. The mirror of the Word of God is enough for me to see how I'm doing in every aspect of my life.
DAL
Marcia Montenegro wrote a great book on the occult origins of the enneagram last year, it’s a very eye opening read. Not sure why IVP and Zondervan keep trying to Christianize it.
These are examples of the sectarian comments that have no place on the forums. I personally have had only one encounter with the Enneagram - a presentation at an ecumenical seminary. where it was presented as a way to integrate psychological observations of personality into the recommendations for spiritual disciplines most compatible with that personality. I never explored it further. But "Not sure why IVP and Zondervan keep trying to Christianize it." is a cheap shot. Combining psychological knowledge with religious knowledge is a valid exercise ... the questions that are useful are things like (a) is there sufficient evidence (b) is this more useful than ... (c) what groups of people would this help ... Think of enneagrams as a tool similar to the Myers-Briggs test. Enneagrams are used in business in a manner similar to Meyers-Briggs.
As for "Marcia Montenegro wrote a great book on the occult origins of the enneagram last year, it’s a very eye opening read. " - I suspect I would find it eye opening in a very negative sense. I suspect she's playing off the well-known influence of Gurdjieff's theosophy/perennial philosophy. But the actual origins of the enneagram is an unresolved, disputed academic issue (confirmed by DAL's reference to the Gospel Coalition). And origins tell us nothing about usefulness and accuracy ... we'd have to throw away a lot of math which was discovered in the context of occult astrology.
In short, I defend the right of Logos users to have an interest in these resources without fearing judgment from others.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:Jon said:DAL said:
Enneagram books? Really? I wonder what they are about. It's fun to do a test, but I don't think enneagrams are Biblical. The mirror of the Word of God is enough for me to see how I'm doing in every aspect of my life.
DAL
Marcia Montenegro wrote a great book on the occult origins of the enneagram last year, it’s a very eye opening read. Not sure why IVP and Zondervan keep trying to Christianize it.
These are examples of the sectarian comments that have no place on the forums. I personally have had only one encounter with the Enneagram - a presentation at an ecumenical seminary. where it was presented as a way to integrate psychological observations of personality into the recommendations for spiritual disciplines most compatible with that personality. I never explored it further. But "Not sure why IVP and Zondervan keep trying to Christianize it." is a cheap shot. Combining psychological knowledge with religious knowledge is a valid exercise ... the questions that are useful are things like (a) is there sufficient evidence (b) is this more useful than ... (c) what groups of people would this help ... Think of enneagrams as a tool similar to the Myers-Briggs test. Enneagrams are used in business in a manner similar to Meyers-Briggs.
As for "Marcia Montenegro wrote a great book on the occult origins of the enneagram last year, it’s a very eye opening read. " - I suspect I would find it eye opening in a very negative sense. I suspect she's playing off the well-known influence of Gurdjieff's theosophy/perennial philosophy. But the actual origins of the enneagram is an unresolved, disputed academic issue (confirmed by DAL's reference to the Gospel Coalition). And origins tell us nothing about usefulness and accuracy ... we'd have to throw away a lot of math which was discovered in the context of occult astrology.
In short, I defend the right of Logos users to have an interest in these resources without fearing judgment from others.
No one ever said Logos users don't have the right to have interest in these kind of things. No one is judging anybody either. I think you're jumping the gun too soon by calling our comments "sectarian." No need to label us like that. Whatever was posted was a personal opinion and we're all entitled to it. You're giving your opinion which in the end all opinions can be subjective, but at the same time your labeling us "sectarian." That is not very nice.
Thank you for your opinion, but my opinion stands. All we need is the Word to help us mold our character. Enneagrams are just a clever way to catch people's attention (which by the way, the results are very way off from my experience and other people's experience).
Like I said, it's "fun" to take the test, but it's still not Biblical in my opinion.
DAL
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There’s a term I haven’t seen in a long time. I forgot it even existed.
I recall the “useful psychological tool v. new age” debates that happened in some Catholic circles back in the early 90s. But then it fell out of sight as far as I heard. I didn’t realize they were still being used anywhere.
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Verbum Max0 -
I couldn't find any books on Enneagram by an "Elizabeth Barrett" either in Logos or on Amazon. I think you meant Elisabeth Bennett.
scooter said:None of the 9 books have a sample on its page.
Please provide a sample of at least one book.
It's shipping tomorrow, so I doubt they'll be able to have sample pages up in time for you to make a decision.
In the meantime, Amazon does have sample pages available for all of these.
The author lives in Olympia, Washington. Her website is https://www.elisabethbennettenneagram.com
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David Wanat said:
There’s a term I haven’t seen in a long time. I forgot it even existed.
I recall the “useful psychological tool v. new age” debates that happened in some Catholic circles back in the early 90s. But then it fell out of sight as far as I heard. I didn’t realize they were still being used anywhere.
Then of course, psychological tools or knowledge is not as useful today and most of the time it blatantly undermines Biblical principles (e.g. don’t spank a child because you’ll ruin his little personality, you can be whoever you want as long as you accept and love yourself, we need to be more tolerant, etc.). The Bible has a lot to say concerning these and other topics.
Anyway, my humble opinion or two cents as people call it now days 👍😁👌
DAL
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JT (alabama24) said:
Scooter - I don't know which books you are referring to. Can you provide a link? Are these Logos or FLEB titles?
These are Logos titles. I do not know how to provide a link via my Mac computer: sorry, 'Bama.
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I use the Enneagram coz it works. It is best used on oneself to see weaknesses and do something about them: pray for wisdom, practise a new habit; as well, to know something is a strength U can use.
It is very useful re one's spouse: here is a strength; here is something they do frequently that is native to their type.
Good for kids, co-workers, people one meets.
To get good enough to read [some] people with the Enneagram takes time + work.
Using it is sorta imperfectly automatic with me. I consciously turn the analysis off sometimes, as I did on last year's ill-fated Grand Princess cruise. I did not want to analyze my nightly supper mates, just enjoy their company.
Using the Enneagram has improved my people skills, as I read situations better. But my people skills are still not as good as, say, type 2 Enneagram peoples' are innately.
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Rosie Perera said:
I couldn't find any books on Enneagram by an "Elizabeth Barrett" either in Logos or on Amazon. I think you meant Elisabeth Bennett.
So right, Rosie. Thanks.
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scooter said:
I do not know how to provide a link via my Mac computer
The simplest method is to copy the URL from the Safari search bar and paste it in the forums: https://www.logos.com/search?query=Elisabeth%20Bennett&sortBy=Relevance&limit=30&page=1&ownership=all&geographicAvailability=availableToMe
The only other trick is to make sure that you add a space afterwards to activate the link.
A more elegant means is to create a link on a WORD as I have just done. You select the word(s) and then press the "chain link" icon.
That will bring up a dialog box. You will past the URL in the appropriate field box and then press the "insert" button.
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DAL said:David Wanat said:
There’s a term I haven’t seen in a long time. I forgot it even existed.
I recall the “useful psychological tool v. new age” debates that happened in some Catholic circles back in the early 90s. But then it fell out of sight as far as I heard. I didn’t realize they were still being used anywhere.
Then of course, psychological tools or knowledge is not as useful today and most of the time it blatantly undermines Biblical principles (e.g. don’t spank a child because you’ll ruin his little personality, you can be whoever you want as long as you accept and love yourself, we need to be more tolerant, etc.). The Bible has a lot to say concerning these and other topics.
Anyway, my humble opinion or two cents as people call it now days 👍😁👌
DAL
It was a long time ago, so I might be remembering incompletely. But I think the discussion by those who defended it was along the lines of “if you can understand a person’s outlook, it helps in reaching out to them.”
I never had any need to defend the Enneagram. But sometimes secular tools (like psychology) have their use, and we don’t need to fear that right use. I would oppose un-Christian abuses of the legitimate secular tools of course, as well as junk science masquerading as science. But I don’t plan on getting into debate on which fits into which category.
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MJ. Smith said:Jon said:DAL said:
Enneagram books? Really? I wonder what they are about. It's fun to do a test, but I don't think enneagrams are Biblical. The mirror of the Word of God is enough for me to see how I'm doing in every aspect of my life.
DAL
Marcia Montenegro wrote a great book on the occult origins of the enneagram last year, it’s a very eye opening read. Not sure why IVP and Zondervan keep trying to Christianize it.
These are examples of the sectarian comments that have no place on the forums. I personally have had only one encounter with the Enneagram - a presentation at an ecumenical seminary. where it was presented as a way to integrate psychological observations of personality into the recommendations for spiritual disciplines most compatible with that personality. I never explored it further. But "Not sure why IVP and Zondervan keep trying to Christianize it." is a cheap shot. Combining psychological knowledge with religious knowledge is a valid exercise ... the questions that are useful are things like (a) is there sufficient evidence (b) is this more useful than ... (c) what groups of people would this help ... Think of enneagrams as a tool similar to the Myers-Briggs test. Enneagrams are used in business in a manner similar to Meyers-Briggs.
As for "Marcia Montenegro wrote a great book on the occult origins of the enneagram last year, it’s a very eye opening read. " - I suspect I would find it eye opening in a very negative sense. I suspect she's playing off the well-known influence of Gurdjieff's theosophy/perennial philosophy. But the actual origins of the enneagram is an unresolved, disputed academic issue (confirmed by DAL's reference to the Gospel Coalition). And origins tell us nothing about usefulness and accuracy ... we'd have to throw away a lot of math which was discovered in the context of occult astrology.
In short, I defend the right of Logos users to have an interest in these resources without fearing judgment from others.
Hi MJ - I wasn’t trying to start trouble with anyone or cast judgement. I was simply responding to a comment that DAL made, mentioning I had read a book on it last year, and that I found it eye opening. As in, I learned things I didn’t realize before. I’m not sure what “sect” that would put me in..the lifelong learner sect maybe?
As for alluding to the fact that IVP and Zondervan sometimes try to cash in on a trend by creating a Christian version of it...maybe that is a cheap shot towards them. Honestly, I don’t think they’d disagree with that assessment...the Christian music industry is notorious for doing the same thing (another cheap shot I suppose...)
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Jon said:
As for alluding to the fact that IVP and Zondervan sometimes try to cash in on a trend by creating a Christian version of it...maybe that is a cheap shot towards them.
I believe that if you trace its history, it was Christian long before IVP and Zondervan got ahold of it. That is why I considered the comment a cheap shot. I certainly acknowledge that enneagrams have been used in secular and religious applications, in scientific and pseudo-scientific settings, in religions in a classical sense, in new-age religions, in esoteric religions ... and that the concerns expressed by the Gospel Coalition as referenced by DAL parallel those expressed by the Catholic Church as referenced by Wikipedia. And, yes, it is useful for you to mention Montenegro's book - just not in a way that implies she's got the truth that settles the case. My knowledge of the book is limited to the Amazon blurb which includes:
[quote]The claims for the Enneagram are simple. Supposedly it is an ancient tool used by some of the Early Church Fathers. It is claimed to be the "face of God" and each Enneagram number is an individual spiritual path to deeper spiritual understanding and fuller self-awareness.
However, what Fr. Richard Rohr wrote (and he is in the title of her book):
[quote]As Father Richard Rohr explains in his book The Enneagram: A Christian Perspective (Crossroad, 2001), “The Sufis supposedly called the Enneagram ‘the face of God’ because they saw the nine energies manifested in the nine personality types as nine attributes of God (nine refractions of the divine light).”
The closest I can come to the Early Church Fathers is from a Rohr website "seven of the nine Enneagram types are associated with the “capital” or “deadly” sins which originated with the Desert Fathers.".
I don't know about you, but I would immediately mistrust anything that tried to describe personality types that wasn't rooted in/parallel to the distant past - human personalities have been with us for a long time.
It is great to offer alternative views in a "did you know that" or "have you seen nnnn's view/response". But when one uses dismissive terms (you didn't) or imply another view is right (you did but perhaps inadvertently) you are making those who accept or are interested in a topic uncomfortable ... sometimes to the point they leave the forums. No, my opinion on such matters bear no more weight than anyone else's; yes, you can say I am obsessed with keeping the forums a friendly environment for all. You can say "no one I know would take offense" to which I respond "in my more diverse community, I know several/many who would rightly take offense ... and some of them are on the forums and in the closet."
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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