11 Gen Intel Processor (BEWARE)
Hello 11th Gen users. If you are having issues with Logos this is the thread for you to reply to and list them in. For me I have been on this ride now for about 2 weeks so here is a little history.
My laptop is the:
- HP Spectre 15.6 X360 11th Gen i7 with 16 GB Ram
My problems are:
- Factbook is very slow to respond and the mouse freezes up
- My notes don't seem to work but if I am patient I can type them a few words at a time and after 10 seconds they will show up on the screen
- Clicking from note to note sometimes doesn't open the note in the note's panel
My self help was:
- I have done 5-6 re-installs
- I have factory reset my laptop and installed Logos 9 first
- Logos forum - searched for the issue to no avail so I started a thread Re: Factbook issue
Tech Support
- I have talked to tech support 4-5 times
- They have remoted into my laptop and seen these issues first hand
- They have receive my Logos error logs
- They have received videos of these issues in action
- They have used my user name and profile and can't reproduce these issues on their 10th gen systems
Calling tech support is hit and miss as only 3 cases of this have been reported as of now. Be patient. Please keep reporting new issues to this thread as us 11th gen people need to get this corrected.
Thank You.
Comments
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Question: What other programs, if any, are you having problems with? The 11 gen chips are VERY new.
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Nothing to date. I purchased on 10/23/20 and everything has been rock solid except for these 2 glitches in Logos. I'm not sure if it is the 11th gen or the new updated Iris XE graphics that is coming along with the 11th gen but it's something.
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Keep watching. In the Mac world a new M1 chip has been released. The problem in both worlds will be if the new chip or the old programs are causing problems. Thanks for letting us know that the problem is not seen in other PC programs. Hopefully the new Mac M1 will not have problems.
[But in both cases a much faster chip could show errors in timing that were not seen with the slower chips. For example: if the program waits the time that it takes, say, ten loops for a reply before deciding that some other process is not going to answer with the faster chip the ten loops is not enough time and the function fails. The programer should have used a timer function rather than counting loops but took a shortcut. Not saying that any program uses loop counts for timing but trying to use an example that non programmer's might understand as to why a faster chip might have problems with older programs. ]
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Mickey Little said:
Hello 11th Gen users. If you are having issues with Logos this is the thread for you to reply to and list them in. For me I have been on this ride now for about 2 weeks so here is a little history.
My laptop is the:
- HP Spectre 15.6 X360 11th Gen i7 with 16 GB Ram
My problems are:
- Factbook is very slow to respond and the mouse freezes up
- My notes don't seem to work but if I am patient I can type them a few words at a time and after 10 seconds they will show up on the screen
- Clicking from note to note sometimes doesn't open the note in the note's panel
My self help was:
- I have done 5-6 re-installs
- I have factory reset my laptop and installed Logos 9 first
- Logos forum - searched for the issue to no avail so I started a thread Re: Factbook issue
Tech Support
- I have talked to tech support 4-5 times
- They have remoted into my laptop and seen these issues first hand
- They have receive my Logos error logs
- They have received videos of these issues in action
- They have used my user name and profile and can't reproduce these issues on their 10th gen systems
Calling tech support is hit and miss as only 3 cases of this have been reported as of now. Be patient. Please keep reporting new issues to this thread as us 11th gen people need to get this corrected.
Thank You.
Thanks for updating us, Mickey! Helpful
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Mickey Little said:
I'm not sure if it is the 11th gen or the new updated Iris XE graphics that is coming along with the 11th gen but it's something.
Does your new device have an external GPU?
-Donnie
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No sir, this is integrated graphics and it is not the OLED display. It's 4K but not OLED.
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mike said:
I have factory reset my laptop and installed Logos 9 first
By "factory reset," did you mean a clean install of Windows along with HP's (or third-party) utilities?
I had a problem with sluggish input when I first got this (8th gen) laptop. There was some third-party software that had been installed, that I needed to remove. Unfortunately, I forget what it was that was causing the problem.
I wonder if it might not be the 10th gen CPU, but some misbehaving app or utility that's affecting Logos. Can you open Task Manager and see if any process is causing a lot of memory or disk I/O? (Event Viewer is another place to check for any issues that may be affecting the system's responsiveness.)
Hope the problem can be solved, Mickey!
Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!
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Hi Mike,
Factory Reset to me is a total wipe removing everything including settings, documents, apps, and windows and a fresh install so the laptop is like it was when it arrived. I actually keep a close eye on CPU/RAM usage.
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Tech support remoted in again earlier this afternoon and ran several diagnostic checks on my laptop hoping to find something but alas it is not that simple.
I keep a close eye on my CPU and RAM usage as I'm OCD. I constantly get between 1975 and 2010 on Novabench so this laptop runs like a champ. Plus Best Buy dropped the price today from $1599 to $1299 so I called and got a $321 price match refund. Price will be back up to $1599 tomorrow morning I guarantee you!
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How do I find out the generation of my CPU?
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PL said:
How do I find out the generation of my CPU?
Assuming you mean Intel, you can learn that HERE.
Logos Series X Pastor’s Library | Logos 3 Leader’s Library | 4 Portfolio | 5 Platinum | 6 Feature Crossgrade | 7 Essential | 8 M & W Platinum and Academic Professional | 9 Academic Professional and Messianic Jewish Diamond
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Thanks. Mine doesn't say which generation, only Intel Core i7-10510U, and Google says that's 10th gen.
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Yes both the i7-1051u and the i7-1065u are 10th gen intel. The key is the first 2 numbers being 10. Mine is i7-11 and therefore 11th gen.
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Thanks Mickey, that's good to know.
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Windows had 5 lengthy updates this morning and 2 were labeled Media but it didn't help.
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Well everyone it's been a week so here's an update. Nothing has changed.
Last Thursday 11/12 another tech logged in and worked on my system for 30-45 minutes and downloaded video and logs. I tried rolling back to Logos 8 but that didn't work correctly (maybe my fault not sure.) So the plan is that I would continue with what I have and Logos would contact me when things change. I hope I'm not forgotten so the best way for that to happen is for me to update this post on a weekly basis.
At some point Logos might need to purchase a low end gen 11 laptop and tackle this issue head on.
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We speculate that the problem may be due to problems with hardware acceleration on the new integrated GPU. To test this theory, please open a command prompt and run the following command (which will disable hardware acceleration for all WPF applications, including Logos):
reg add HKCU\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Avalon.Graphics /v DisableHWAcceleration /t REG_DWORD /d 1
(Note: needs to be copy/pasted exactly as shown)
You'll need to restart Logos for the setting to take effect. Does it help at all?
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Bradley,
I won't say that it's perfect but very close. Notes are working great and Factbook too. Neither is quite as smooth as on my 13.3 inch 10th gen so I know this has got to be a temp fix only.
A couple of questions.
1. Why did I have to post back in the forum to find out about this? I have been struggling with this issue ever since 10/23/20 and have been on the phone with tech support for hours and have had not 1 but 2 support people remote into my laptop take videos and download logs. And just like last time when I posted I got an email from support. Please don't tell me that you guys just came up with this theory/fix earlier today and that's why I haven't been notified yet. Sorry I won't buy it. Right now I've got a feeling that I'm hanging on a life preserver waving my arms and if I don't shout out from time to time you guys will let me just drift away. Rant Over...
2. So I can't leave my laptop in this state. Will rebooting reenable my hardware acceleration back to normal?
3. Are you working on a permanent fix?
4. Any estimate on when it will be ready?
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Mickey you might want to follow https://github.com/dotnet/wpf/issues/3817 which is possible the issue or related.
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Thanks Kevin I will keep my eye on that board. According to them this is a Windows issue. I may have to create a batch file to run this hardward disabler every time I restart my laptop. I only do that a couple times a week.
Thanks again.
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It should remain following reboot.
Maybe WPF, but Vatsan thinks could be Intel driver issue....either way, well beyond my pay-grade for sure.
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Mickey Little said:
1. Why did I have to post back in the forum to find out about this?
Because Bradley is just that good?
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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Mickey Little said:
Please don't tell me that you guys just came up with this theory/fix earlier today and that's why I haven't been notified yet.
I literally did come up with this earlier today. I added a note to our Jira case asking our CS reps to try this fix at 12:20pm PST, reply-all emailed our internal email thread that I had done so at 12:21pm, and came directly to the forums to post it (to eliminate any undue delay) at 12:49pm PST.
To answer your questions:
- I expect Tech Support would have reached out to you about this (they're maintaining a list of affected customers); perhaps the forum post beat them to it?
- Why not? It only disables hardware acceleration for WPF applications (which is most likely only Logos), not your whole system. The registry setting is permanent, so rebooting won't change it.
- No. This is a Microsoft WPF bug or a Intel driver bug. We can't fix it.
- We can't fix this.
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Well please forgive the rant. In the mean time I have factory reset my laptop as hopefully that re-enabled the hardware acceleration. I understand what you are saying (to a point) but I'm not quite ready to make that permanent change.
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Mickey Little said:
I have factory reset my laptop as hopefully that re-enabled the hardware acceleration
Quite likely.
An easier way is to change the data value /d from 1 to 0 i.e.
reg add HKCU\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Avalon.Graphics /v DisableHWAcceleration /t REG_DWORD /d 0
If you get a prompt about overwriting, respond with Yes or Y.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Thanks Dave everything is back to normal now. I'm just going to hang out and flip flop between OT and Logos until this gets corrected, whether its a Windows issue or a Logos issue. I have a pretty extensive library with OT that I've had for years anyway.
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How do I run a command prompt?
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In the search bar just type CMD
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Oh and OT on my Windows 10 device just doesn't cut it. So I'm totally sticking with Logos even with this issues I'm having.
Hopefully it will get fixed by someone other than me using the hack posted above.
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Never mind, I think I have figured it out.
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Here's a support article on the topic:
Logos | https://support.logos.com/hc/en-us/articles/360052821231
Verbum | https://support.verbum.com/hc/en-us/articles/360052835211
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Hi Thomas
Thomas Ball said:Here's a support article on the topic:
Logos | https://support.logos.com/hc/en-us/articles/360052821231
This has "when running Loos on a" instead of "Logos"
Just thought it worth fixing!
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Thomas Ball said:
Thomas,
I think the /d value is inverted. For Disable it should be 1. For Re-enable (do not Disable) it should be 0.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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I updated the article. Thanks, guys.
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I have applied the fix mentioned and for the most part it works good but I notice that when taking notes I still get lag especially if I have typed 2-3 sentences on a note. At that point I can type 3-4 words, stop typing, and then watch the words finally appear on the screen.
So there is more to this issue than just disabling the 11th gen Iris XE graphics.
Is anyone else experiencing what I am?
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Bradley,
The 9.3 beta 1 release notes reference this thread: https://wiki.logos.com/Logos_9.3_Beta_1
They mention a fix for the problem. If FL can't fix the problem (b/c it's Microsoft or Intel - I read the MS case about the issue), what does this fix in 9.3 beta 1 consist of?
Thanks,
Donnie
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Donnie Hale said:
what does this fix in 9.3 beta 1 consist of?
It just automatically sets that registry value if 11th-generation Intel hardware is detected.
(I believe we have a case to expose a "Use hardware acceleration" setting in Program Settings so you can turn it back on if you happen to have a NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 that you're actually using to display Logos, but we thought it was more important to make the software "just work" by default without registry tweaks before building the setting.)
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Thank! I'm using 11th gen Intel too and this made Notes usable again.
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I'm finding that I can leave notes but if the note is more than a sentence it starts lagging really bad. Is this happening to anyone else?
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Hi Mickey,
The next release of Logos (9.3) which will be a few weeks will automatically disable the hardware acceleration which is causing the issue. It is available now in beta which if you can find more about how to join by looking at the stickied threads at the top of the beta forum.
If you do not want the risk of using a beta, you can manually apply the fix by following the information in this support page. Did you already apply this fix?
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I have applied this solution and the only thing that does not work is playing videos! The thumb nail works but when I press play it goes blank white - is this related?
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Hello All, I have an problem with I use the code to disable hardware accleration in that videos do not display. It gives me thumb nail but when I hit play it just goes blank/white.
I can confirm the video reappears when I reverse the command ro reinable the acceleration, but of course then I cannot use any notes or Factbook.
I have been a Logos user for 10 years and its one of the main reasons I purchased the laptop (daily use) . I could use some information before I make a decision. I could return it for an older model, which is an extreme solution! Or, I can live with the temporary fix and watch the videos online whilst taking notes in Logos. My questions are:
1. Does the temporary fix affect anything else on my system?
2. Will there be a patch for this in the end so I can use Logos normally, ie. is it worth hanging in there?
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Paul Ian Clarke said:
1. Does the temporary fix affect anything else on my system?
2. Will there be a patch for this in the end so I can use Logos normally, ie. is it worth hanging in there?
- It affects all applications that use Microsoft's WPF UI technology. (This is not commonly used, so it may just be Logos on your system.)
- This is really out of our control. It seems to be either a WPF or an Intel driver issue, and we can't fix either. Based on https://github.com/dotnet/wpf/issues/3817#issuecomment-753764519 it sounds like Microsoft may be aware of the issue and reaching out to Intel, but we really don't have much more information than that.
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Hi bradley,
im in the market for a new laptop, in light of this issue, should i be avoiding an 11th gen cpu altogether? or do you reckon this bug would eventually be fixed?
Ben
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Intel are aware of the problem and are "working on it internally" according to this thread (24th Jan).
https://community.intel.com/t5/Graphics/Iris-Xe-and-AWS-Workspaces/td-p/1244351
Seems it is also impacting AWS Workspaces, TurboTax, and Citrix so that should hopefully add some weight for a fix.
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Trying to decide if I should keep this laptop, can I easily look to tell what apps on my computer run Microsoft WPF UI technology? I do not want to apply the temp fix that at least gets me my notes, if it affects other systems.
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Hi paul, apart from the fact that videos do not load, is logos 9 very slow or unusable on your 11gen laptop having applied the fix recommended by logos?
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Hi Benjamin,
If I apply the fix it is fine except for the videos - I would be happy to live with it like that until Intel provide a fix. However, I am worried that the fix will in some way affect other parts of my system/slow it down.
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