Finding Jesus in the OT via Search?
I'm running this search <Person Jesus> WITHIN 5 WORDS "offering for sin". This should technically result in at least Isaiah 53:10, but I get zero back. I can only assume the "His" in this verse has not been tagged by the <Person Jesus>. I was hoping to find various search returns in the OT that alluded to the incarnate Christ.
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Finding Jesus in the Old Testament can be difficult as it may depend on interpretation. In the church I attend it is Jesus in the cloud leading out of Egypt. And Jesus was the one that had lunch with Abraham. But that may be denominationally dependent. Most see the God of the OT as what we would call the Father - The Ancient One.
[[We interpret all the "I Am" statements by Jesus in the NT as proof that the "I Am" in the OT was the same person as Jesus in the NT. Jews and Islamic people do not see Jesus in the OT at all.]]
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Steven Veach said:
I'm running this search <Person Jesus> WITHIN 5 WORDS "offering for sin". This should technically result in at least Isaiah 53:10, but I get zero back. I can only assume the "His" in this verse has not been tagged by the <Person Jesus>.
As David says it is open to interpretation.
In Logos, tagging <Person Jesus> only appears in the New Testament.
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If you right click on "His" you can see exactly how this has been tagged, and adjust your search accordingly.
In this case, you would want to add <Person Pierced Servant> to your search.
Andrew Batishko | Logos software developer
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David Ames said:
Finding Jesus in the Old Testament can be difficult as it may depend on interpretation. In the church I attend it is Jesus in the cloud leading out of Egypt. And Jesus was the one that had lunch with Abraham. But that may be denominationally dependent. Most see the God of the OT as what we would call the Father - The Ancient One.
[[We interpret all the "I Am" statements by Jesus in the NT as proof that the "I Am" in the OT was the same person as Jesus in the NT. Jews and Islamic people do not see Jesus in the OT at all.]]
This is how I've always understood it. There are several places in the OT where the reincarnate Christ is found. Burning Bush, Fiery Furnace, Isaiah 53, Psalm 2, etc. I guess I need to find a book that's specifically focused on OT allusions to Jesus.
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If you right click on "His" you can see exactly how this has been tagged, and adjust your search accordingly.
In this case, you would want to add <Person Pierced Servant> to your search.
Thanks for the tip, but this does not get me any further. When I look up <Person Pierced Servant> it is only found in Isaiah 53. Apparently there is no way to find all the allusions to Jesus in the OT.
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Steven Veach said:
Apparently there is no way to find all the allusions to Jesus in the OT.
There is no agreement on what are allusions to Jesus and therefore, no criteria defining them, hence, no search ...
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Steven Veach said:
This is how I've always understood it. There are several places in the OT where the reincarnate Christ is found. Burning Bush, Fiery Furnace, Isaiah 53, Psalm 2, etc. I guess I need to find a book that's specifically focused on OT allusions to Jesus.
This is still gathering interest but looks like it would be helpful to you https://www.logos.com/product/188063/knowing-jesus-in-the-old-testament-a-fresh-look-at-christophanies
Cf. https://www.logos.com/product/9113/christ-in-the-old-testament
You might also try searching your resources for Christophany.
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Thanks, Tom. ;-)
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Tom Reynolds said:Steven Veach said:
This is how I've always understood it. There are several places in the OT where the reincarnate Christ is found. Burning Bush, Fiery Furnace, Isaiah 53, Psalm 2, etc. I guess I need to find a book that's specifically focused on OT allusions to Jesus.
This is still gathering interest but looks like it would be helpful to you https://www.logos.com/product/188063/knowing-jesus-in-the-old-testament-a-fresh-look-at-christophanies
Cf. https://www.logos.com/product/9113/christ-in-the-old-testament
You might also try searching your resources for Christophany.
Search => https://www.logos.com/search?query=Christ%20Old%20Testament&sortBy=Relevance&limit=60&page=1&ownership=all&geographicAvailability=availableToMe includes many resources to consider, including:
- Beginning at Moses: A Guide to Finding Christ in the Old Testament (Barrett 2001)
- Christ in the Old Testament (Borland 1999)
- Christ in the Old Testament (Charles Spurgeon 60 Studies)
- Discovering Christ in All the Scriptures (Fortner 2007)
Commentary to consider: Poor Man's Old and New Testament Commentary (12 vols.)
Keep Smiling [:)]
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How about using the Preaching Theme tagging? It wouldn’t find Genesis 18, but it would find Isaiah 53.
(sin AND offering) WITHIN {Section <PreachingTheme = Prophecy about Jesus>}
Using Logos as a pastor, seminary professor, and Tyndale author
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Justin Gatlin said:
How about using the Preaching Theme tagging? It wouldn’t find Genesis 18, but it would find Isaiah 53.
(sin AND offering) WITHIN {Section <PreachingTheme = Prophecy about Jesus>}
This, strangely, did not bring up any results for me in either the NKJV or the KJV. I've getting that from a few of Morris Proctor's search strings as well. Not sure what I'm doing wrong. I matched all the settings in the pic.
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Steven Veach said:
Not sure what I'm doing wrong. I matched all the settings in the pic.
Do you own the datasets being used - i.e. what feature set do you own?
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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In addition to MJ's question, see if this link works. That way there is no room for typos.
An even better search (which yields the same results in this case, but I think is a good tool to have for similar searches) is to search for the sense. You can find that by right clicking "offering for sin" in the text of Isaiah: <Sense = guilt offering> WITHIN {Section <PreachingTheme = Prophecy about Jesus>}
Using Logos as a pastor, seminary professor, and Tyndale author
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Using the link returns zero, so I must not have the data set.
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Steven Veach said:
Using the link returns zero, so I must not have the data set.
Preaching Themes Dataset shows inclusion in Bronze and Above feature sets
Biblical Word Senses Dataset also needs Bronze or Higher feature set(s)
Keep Smiling [:)]
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