A search: what was I doing wrong?

I was trying to find the place where Paul says something along the lines of "I, Paul, say this to you, not the Lord".

I LOVE the new search templates, because I couldn't ever have remembered the syntax for that without help. Using the templates, I searched for:

{Speaker <Person Paul>} INTERSECTS "the lord"

Couldn't find the verse.

I tried various other things instead of "the lord"; such as "jesus" or "I paul" or "I say"

Still no dice.

I went to Google and typed i paul say this, not the lord and Boom! First hit:

Why did my first attempted search in Logos not find this? It seems to only be looking in Acts. Aren't Paul's letters considered "speech" by Paul too?

If not, how would you construct a search for something Paul said that would include Paul's reported speech as well as his written words? Finding something like this in Logos shouldn't be so hard that I'd prefer to go to Google for it!

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Mark Smith

Aren't Paul's letters considered "speech" by Paul too?

That was the first thing I thought might be the case, and in checking out a couple of other similar searches, I believe that is the problem. FL restricts speaker labels to only acts of speech.

However in Logos, if you know Paul is the writer/speaker, you could just search for "the Lord" in Paul's epistles (or the whole NT) and you'd find it.

Should Logos mimic Google? Another question, but it might be nice.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1157551#Comment_1157551

However in Logos, if you know Paul is the writer/speaker, you could just search for "the Lord" in Paul's epistles (or the whole NT) and you'd find it.

I knew Paul said it, and if I'd thought hard enough about it, I could have restricted it to just his letters, but suppose I really didn't know if he said it verbally or in writing? Searching through the whole NT would have found more instances that were not relevant. What if I really wanted to only find the times when Paul said or wrote "the Lord"?

Pastor James

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1157551#Comment_1157551

"Should Logos mimic Google?"

One of my long-term frustrations with Logos. I all too frequently find myself going out of Logos, doing a search in google, and returning to Logos. It's just simpler than trying to do the search in Logos. Shouldn't be that way, but it is what it is.

Mark Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1157556#Comment_1157556

What if I really wanted to only find the times when Paul said or wrote "the Lord"?

I think that is a valid question and a criticism of the current tagging/Logos' approach to searching. I can understand FL wanting to restrict the Speaker tag to reported speech. Perhaps an Author tag is needed. However, then you'd have to know to perform an OR search if you weren't sure whether Paul spoke or wrote the words.

I'm not sure adding an author tag to search would be easier than just searching "the Lord" in Paul's writings.

I don't know what Google's algorithm is, but in this (albeit, limited) sample it is superior.

Mark Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1157701#Comment_1157701

"Should Logos mimic Google?"

One of my long-term frustrations with Logos. I all too frequently find myself going out of Logos, doing a search in google, and returning to Logos. It's just simpler than trying to do the search in Logos. Shouldn't be that way, but it is what it is.

I am sure other search engines wish they could do the job Google does. It really is quite amazing.

So 'shouldn't be' might be a little strong. FL is not Google, but Google is not FL, either. You can definitely do things with Logos searching that AFAIK could never be done with Google. A trade-off. Complexity vs speed, flexibility vs taking what an algorithm you have no control over provides. Both have their place.

Dave Hooton

I went to Google and typed i paul say this, not the lord and Boom! First hit:

It took two attempts, but typing I say not the Lord got that result in Fuzzy Bible Search (with a similar result in 2 cor 11:17).

Otherwise, a more complicated search is ("not the Lord" WITHIN {Speaker <Person Paul>}) OR ("not the Lord" WITHIN {Milestone <Rom-Heb>})

which allows for results where Paul is speaking (in Acts) or where Paul is writing.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

If not, how would you construct a search for something Paul said that would include Paul's reported speech as well as his written words?

Bible search <Person Paul> NEAR not NEAR <Person Jesus> includes three results in 1 Corinthians 7

Keep Smiling [:)]

Simon’s Brother

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1157736#Comment_1157736

I went to Google and typed i paul say this, not the lord and Boom! First hit:

It took two attempts, but typing I say not the Lord got that result in Fuzzy Bible Search (with a similar result in 2 cor 11:17).

👍 Fuzzy Bible search would be my approach to these sort of searches rather than trying to use Logos tags. With your search Dav it was not necessary to know who said it or whether it was reported speech or not.