Why do Verbumites pay the same as Logosians for a lesser product
- In general, reading plans, work flows, and similar smaller features are geared for the Logos side of the house. No problem if and only if Verbum slowly adds such features at a consistent rate. But for several years running, listing items for Verbum gets positive feedback and no visible progress
- I have no problem with there being differences between Logos and Verbum - Logos gets IgniterMedia and SermonAudio while Verbum gets Catholic Topic Index and predefined collections. I think the distinctions are appropriate. But I don't think it is appropriate that the content of a Guide is changed when I open a Logos Passage Guide in Verbum ... acknowledged as a bug many years ago but never changed.
- I do have a problem with differences that are not based on differences in need - why no help cards in Verbum? why no links to the Faithlife Logos groups? Verbum gets no equivalent but we pay for its development. I know unfair product treatment when I see it.
What was the final straw? David P. Moore said:. I noticed there is a "Discuss this feature" choice in the "ke-bob" menu for many panels, and I decided to use it the other day for a question I had, and got a quick response, and a notification of the response thru the Faithlife app on my phone, which I thought was nice.
... a feature denied Verbum for no discernable reason except discriminatory marketing. There is no justification for a "separate development" to hold water as the code between Logos and Verbum should have very limited differences on a common base.If you consider my total investment in Faithlife starting with the first Catholic package (L2?], I think I've paid more than my fair share for features I don't have.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
Comments
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I use Logos, but I see the need for Verbum's customer base to be treated fairly, with the same features.
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MJ. Smith said:
- In general, reading plans, work flows, and similar smaller features are geared for the Logos side of the house. No problem if and only if Verbum slowly adds such features at a consistent rate. But for several years running, listing items for Verbum gets positive feedback and no visible progress
Question: Do these " features" get turned on and off by "set Verbum to yes" and "set Verbum to no"?
[[That used to be the way one switched between the two]]
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I'm just here to agree. I use vanilla logos.
John 3:17 (ESV)
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David Ames said:
[[That used to be the way one switched between the two]]
Correction: that is and long has been how one changes a Logos installation into a near mimic of a Verbum installation... one that has Help cards, unless something's changed recently.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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MJ, thanks for focusing on the disparate treatment between the Logos product and the Verbum product. I've been a user since the days of "Libronix". I took the Verbum route when it became available and I too have invested significant money in the Logos/Verbum product. I certainly want to echo MJs frustration with regards to the issues she has raised.
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SineNomine said:David Ames said:
[[That used to be the way one switched between the two]]
Correction: that is and long has been how one changes a Logos installation into a near mimic of a Verbum installation... one that has Help cards, unless something's changed recently.
Re: Near mimic: What are the differences between a "pure Verbum" Installation and a Logos installation with "Verbum set to Yes"]]
[[Next post: What are the differences between a "pure Logos" Installation and a Verbum installation with "Verbum set to No"?]]
[[Post after that one: Does "Verbum set to" change any thing from the "pure" Installation to any thing less when one changes it back to what ever the "pure" Installation was when it was a "pure" Installation?]]
[[What I really meant to ask was] We have two PCs. My wife never uses Logos nor Verbum. I have installed Logos on mine and Verbum on hers [both for my use only] Have I upset anything by using the "Verbum set to" command that does not get un-upset when I go back to the other state?
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Why do we need 2 separate products? I genuinely do not understand.
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Mark said:
Why do we need 2 separate products? I genuinely do not understand.
Ok, Verbum, it is. It'll be good for Logosians to figure out why there's so many Esdras.
More seriously, Verbum should be leading the way on how to do religion with software. Logos is hopelessly a stack and rack proposition (list, search, tag, and tree it).
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scooter said:Mark said:
Why do we need 2 separate products? I genuinely do not understand.
Who are you asking this question of??
It was a genuine question meant to add to this thread, not hack it. It was meant I suppose for FL or for anyone who can give insight. I wonder if the need for two separate products is still necessary.
MJ has a legitimate question. And I hope it gets addressed by FL.
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Mark said:
Why do we need 2 separate products? I genuinely do not understand.
There are some significant differences in the ways that some users approach Bible and Historical studies. Logos was originally created for a "broadly evangelical" (protestant) community. For example, they expect 66 books in the canon and do not want mariological resources. I am sure that there are many Catholics who would prefer not to have devotionals by Luther and Calvin pop up. The same is true with the "on this day in history" feature.
A Venn diagram would show much overlap between the two, but where they DON'T overlap, there can be significant controversy. There would also be a third circle in that Venn diagram of those who are one side or the other but DO want the material from the other side as well.
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JT (alabama24) said:
I am sure that there are many Catholics who would prefer not to have devotionals by Luther and Calvin pop up.
As a Lutheran, I have certainly run into a few Roman Catholics who react strongly against anything with the names of Luther or Calvin. But I have run into many Roman Catholics who actually quite value Luther's Devotional writings, and have told us Lutherans how they are rooted in Medieval monasticism. They may disagree with him on some points - especially in his Polemical writings, but all in all, I think Roman Catholics appreciate and respect Luther's devotional writings FAR more than the typical American Evangelical Protestant respects, for example, Thomas Aquinas' devotional writings - even when Luther is gently critiquing some Roman Catholic practices, eg. Luther's work on the Magnificat.
None of this is to say that they would typically have Luther as a first choice - or that there is no difference between Luther's thought and Roman Catholicism. But one of the flowers of Vatican 2 has been an recognition that even if they say Luther was a off-pitch, and even if you say that he made inappropriate choices over the whole of Catholicism, his thought is still anchored in Catholicism.
None of this is to say that you were wrong when you said "There are some significant differences in the ways that some users approach Bible and Historical Studies." You are indeed right on that. It just gets more complicated, and you could have picked a better example. And what I read MJ as saying in her original post is that Logos/Verbum development lately seems to have been dominated by features that would be more useful for the typical American Evangelical user, and that that Verbum development has lagged behind this, with too many features only half-way implemented.
The Gospel is not ... a "new law," on the contrary, ... a "new life." - William Julius Mann
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JT (alabama24) said:
There are some significant differences
I understand all that, and I am sure that was the original idea behind a second product. But now? We have various packages...reformed packages, baptist packages, Orthodox packages, academic packages. Why can't Verbum be another denominational package? I buy Verbum products and it incorporates into Logos. If you buy Logos products, it incorporates into Verbum. I have a birthday and get a Verbum birthday credit. Usually I get a Logos credit. To me, it is confusing...just like introducing Noet (now obsolete) was confusing. And it causes the problem MJ brings up. The fact is, I would like to have the Catholic topic index...and lo and behold...in Logos, I have it! Why do Verbum customers not have links to FL Logos groups?
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JT (alabama24) said:
There would also be a third circle in that Venn diagram of those who are one side or the other but DO want the material from the other side as well.
Mark me down as a 'Third Circleist'!
I use Logos but resent the fact that I would need to download a whole new library to get the facilities that others have should I find a need for them.
We can prioritise our bible translation why can't we prioritise our canon?
Why can't we, at least in our software, turn saints and/or martyrs on and off as required?
(Who knows if one can actually turn saints and/or martyrs off?)
Unifying Verbum and Logos should be an aspiration not least because it encourages unity. I seem to remember that somebody else thought unity a good idea.
tootle pip
Mike
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Mike Binks said:JT (alabama24) said:
There would also be a third circle in that Venn diagram of those who are one side or the other but DO want the material from the other side as well.
Mark me down as a 'Third Circleist'!
I use Logos but resent the fact that I would need to download a whole new library to get the facilities that others have should I find a need for them.
We can prioritise our bible translation why can't we prioritise our canon?
Why can't we, at least in our software, turn saints and/or martyrs on and off as required?
(Who knows if one can actually turn saints and/or martyrs off?)
Unifying Verbum and Logos should be an aspiration not least because it encourages unity. I seem to remember that somebody else thought unity a good idea.
I agree with all of this, but there are significant numbers of users who would not.
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Mark said:JT (alabama24) said:
There are some significant differences
I understand all that, and I am sure that was the original idea behind a second product. But now? We have various packages...reformed packages, baptist packages, Orthodox packages, academic packages. Why can't Verbum be another denominational package? I buy Verbum products and it incorporates into Logos. If you buy Logos products, it incorporates into Verbum. I have a birthday and get a Verbum birthday credit. Usually I get a Logos credit. To me, it is confusing...just like introducing Noet (now obsolete) was confusing. And it causes the problem MJ brings up. The fact is, I would like to have the Catholic topic index...and lo and behold...in Logos, I have it! Why do Verbum customers not have links to FL Logos groups?
The libraries are one thing... the software functionality is quite another. I think Mike‘s suggestion is good... You could keep the two diverse apps which would have different default settings, but have the ability to turn on the other. I < think > that would make most happy.
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JT (alabama24) said:
I agree with all of this, but there are significant numbers of users who would not.
I doubt most care to share ... FL seems to see the problem as a market-issue and internally re-badging. They never mentally recovered from the pre-Christmas-Eve masacre.
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Mark said:
I understand all that, and I am sure that was the original idea behind a second product. But now? We have various packages...reformed packages, baptist packages, Orthodox packages, academic packages. Why can't Verbum be another denominational package?JT (alabama24) said:There are some significant differences
I will give you an answer that will be simple and true but likely unsatisfying to you. It will, at least, have the advantage of abstracting away from Verbum's special features, present or future.
- Verbum is targeted at Catholics.
- Most Catholics who might buy Verbum would never buy non-Catholic Bible/theology study software/resources. Almost no Catholics in a position to recommend Verbum to other Catholics--parish priests, diocesan bishops, theology professors, etc.--would ever publicly or widely endorse non-Catholic Bible/theology study software/resources, even if they themselves were personally using them. In addition, most relevant Catholic organizations, including publishers and post-secondary institutions, are unlikely to support/work with non-Catholic Bible/theology study software/resource providers.
- If Verbum were to be replaced by (e.g.) "Logos 10 Catholic" packages, products, and marketing, for all relevant intents and purposes, from a Catholic perspective, this would be non-Catholic Bible/theology study software/resource, because Faithlife the company and Logos the brand are non-Catholic.
Tl;dr: Merging Verbum into Logos would lose Faithlife most of its present and potential future Catholic customers, product endorsers, and partner organizations.
Why my preceding answer is true is much more complicated and difficult to properly understand from a non-Catholic perspective than is that answer, and the anecdotal counter-examples to 2. that I'm sure could be provided would be, as they say,' exceptions that prove the rule'.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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Ken McGuire said:JT (alabama24) said:
I am sure that there are many Catholics who would prefer not to have devotionals by Luther and Calvin pop up.
As a Lutheran, I have certainly run into a few Roman Catholics who react strongly against anything with the names of Luther or Calvin. But[....]
Relevant resource from Faithlife here: Martin Luther: Catholic Critical Analysis and Praise
Here is an excerpt from the (Catholic) author's introduction:
If that sounds interesting to you, the book is not expensive. If not, carry on!Dave Armstrong said:Lastly, the reader may wonder (in all fairness) about my own personal opinion (as a committed orthodox Catholic, and Catholic apologist) of Martin Luther. I’m happy to comply with such a desire. I disagree with the man’s theology (that is, where he departs from Catholic orthodoxy) and some of the ways in which he went about things. But I do not regard Luther (like many Catholic biographers and critics throughout history) as an essentially “evil” or “bad” man. I don’t deny his good intentions and sincerity at all (though I often question his wisdom and foresight, as will be evident).
I actually admire Martin Luther in many ways. I love his passion and boldness and bravery in standing up for what he believed. I always admire people who do that, unless the stand they take is unquestionably evil. One can respect such a person without necessarily agreeing with the specific cause or belief that he or she espouses. One can be wrong for the right reasons, and right for the wrong reasons.
I’ve written extensively about Martin Luther, and maintain perhaps the largest web page on the Internet devoted to Luther and Lutheranism, from a Catholic perspective. It may surprise some to learn that among these many papers (written over the past seventeen years) are about twenty, as of writing [2008], where I defend Luther against myths and bum raps, cite him in agreement, or take a fairly neutral stance towards his opinion.In one fictional, Plato-inspired dialogue I even portrayed Martin Luther quite positively (and downright affectionately), as a sort of (saved) “wise old man”. I’ve even—on occasion—received unsolicited letters of commendation from Lutheran pastors for such efforts.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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SineNomine said:
Most Catholics who might buy Verbum would never buy non-Catholic Bible/theology study software/resources. Almost no Catholics in a position to recommend Verbum to other Catholics--parish priests, diocesan bishops, theology professors, etc.--would ever publicly or widely endorse non-Catholic Bible/theology study software/resources, even if they themselves were personally using them. In addition, most relevant Catholic organizations, including publishers and post-secondary institutions, are unlikely to support/work with non-Catholic Bible/theology study software/resource providers.
So much for ecumenicalism.
I still support MJ's op
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My personal opinion is that it is ridiculous for Faithlife to have two versions of the software to maintain -- increased costs make that ridiculous. However, it is reasonable for Faithlife to market the same code as three products - Evangelical - Catholic - and academic. Evangelical has one set of defaults priorities, canon, reading plans, guide sections and is marketed as Logos; Catholic has a different set and is marketed as Verbum; Academic/Ecumenical has everything and allows the user to set source of priorities and is marketed as Faithlife Academic. One software package = lower maintenance and development cost; marketing options keeps the easily irritated on both side blissfully ignorant.
What I don't like is being second fiddle.Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Mark said:
So much for ecumenicalism.
I still support MJ's op
Nothing non-ecumenical about it. It stands to reason that people want to use the software according to their beliefs. As such, they probably wouldn’t invest in books outside of them. So, it does them a bit of a disservice to be given less for their money.
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MJ. Smith said:
What I don't like is being second fiddle.Well somebody is stomping their feet now. FWIW I respect your right to raise this issue and put your case forward.
I just wonder if these means now you understand what is feels like, are you going to be less judgemental of those who express the same sort of feelings about different issues with FL ? Or are you going to tell them it’s FL’s product and they can do what they like with it and leading on from that charge what they like?
But as I said I support your right to call it out. I just hope it changes the way you respond to others in the future who feel like they are playing second fiddle over the issues that are important to them. All customers deserve it be able to express the highs and lows of their experience with FL.0 -
DIsciple II said:
I just wonder if these means now you understand what is feels like, are you going to be less judgemental of those who express the same sort of feelings about different issues with FL ? Or are you going to tell them it’s FL’s product and they can do what they like with it and leading on from that charge what they like?
[:D] I don't fall for the "Have you quit hitting your wife" question form
BTW - people who know me in person, know that people naturally confide in me (and my son) precisely because we are not judgmental. I can provide humorous stories starting with the dorm peer counselor waking my roommate and I at 3 in the morning because she needed someone to talk to ...
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Mark said:
So much for ecumenicalism.
I think, its also the other way round: FL/Logos would loose evangelical customers, if a 'united' logos/verbum project would have some catholic touch. So it may be a reasonable decision to have two distict marketing enviroments.
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Mark said:
So much for ecumenicalism.
It's really not a matter of ecumenism. Or, if it is, it's a matter of accurately recognizing that there are very deep and very important differences between the Catholic faith and (e.g.) evangelical Protestantism.
As I noted in the post you are responding to, it is a complicated matter, but a lot of it is Catholics who have the care of souls not wanting to recommend books and related resources that have very different understandings of the Gospel than they have to Catholics who know very little about the Catholic faith, and most Catholics who are interested in learning more about their own faith and related matters already knowing (or soon learning) that non-Catholic Christians see things very differently in many respects. (As a former Protestant, I also know very well that most Protestant ministers and other persons of influence would never think of directing Protestants who don't know a lot about their own faith to Catholic Bible/theology resources.)
Once Catholics know their faith well, or while they are in environments where they have knowledgeable Catholic teaches/guides, such as graduate schools and seminaries, they will often start intentionally making more use of non-Catholic resources, especially ones recommended by Catholics they know and trust. (Two examples of such resources would be William Barclay's commentary set, long recommended by the late Abp. Fulton J. Sheen, and the Commentary on the New Testament Use of the Old Testament, recommended by Scott Hahn and others.)
Martin Wetzel said:Mark said:So much for ecumenicalism.
I think, its also the other way round: FL/Logos would loose evangelical customers, if a 'united' logos/verbum project would have some catholic touch. So it may be a reasonable decision to have two distict marketing enviroments.
I think you're probably right. Faithlife already takes some criticism on the forums when evangelicals (and others) find deuterocanonical books in their Bible searches or see a whole bunch of Catholic books for sale on Logos.com when all they want are Protestant ones.
MJ. Smith said:it is reasonable for Faithlife to market the same code as three products - Evangelical - Catholic - and academic. Evangelical has one set of defaults priorities, canon, reading plans, guide sections and is marketed as Logos; Catholic has a different set and is marketed as Verbum; Academic/Ecumenical has everything and allows the user to set source of priorities and is marketed as Faithlife Academic. One software package = lower maintenance and development cost; marketing options keeps the easily irritated on both side blissfully ignorant.
What I don't like is being second fiddle.I substantially agree, although I don't presently care very much about whether there are two products or three.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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SineNomine said:
Relevant resource from Faithlife here: Martin Luther: Catholic Critical Analysis and Praise
Thank you for the recommendation.I do hope that what I said about Roman Catholics and Luther was at least recognizable to you Roman Catholics.
But while I do value Roman Catholic contributions to Luther Studies - and expect to read more of it in my life, I am much more interested in trying to get a handle on current Roman Catholic theology in general. For better or worse, Luther was educated in Nominalism - and the ideas he criticized were those of his teachers and how those teachers read figures like Aquinas - and this has not been the dominant self-understanding of Rome for centuries. And so after some time with various Fathers, I am more interested in the survey you recommended earlier - Tracey Rowland's Catholic Theology, so I can better treat Rome with the respect of being serious theologians - a respect many Roman Catholics give to Luther.
And as for the Logos v. Verbum topic... I know enough about software development that if Faithlife wants to be able to successfully manage everything, they need to have a great deal of shared code between the two. And obviously Roman Catholics are a large enough of a potential market to justify special library packages - and have taught enough in various (Lutheran) parishes to understand the need for base packages that are compatible with your theology. I understand that different groups read the bible differently - and so would prioritize different features.
That said, it has seemed odd to me that Verbum is out on its own, and the Eastern Orthodox packages are part of Logos itself. But even as a Lutheran, I have seen enough American Anti-catholicism so that I can see more than a bit of wisdom for Faithlife to have different brandings. As much as I want to talk across the fence, good fences do sometimes make good neighbors.
The Gospel is not ... a "new law," on the contrary, ... a "new life." - William Julius Mann
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Ken McGuire said:
I do hope that what I said about Roman Catholics and Luther was at least recognizable to you Roman Catholics.
It is to me (although I disfavour the term "Roman Catholic").
Ken McGuire said:For better or worse, Luther was educated in Nominalism - and the ideas he criticized were those of his teachers and how those teachers read figures like Aquinas - and this has not been the dominant self-understanding of Rome for centuries.
Nominalism has never been the dominant self-understanding of Rome as such, although nominalism (thank you, Ockham) was quite popular for a time, during which Luther was educated.
Ken McGuire said:And so after some time with various Fathers, I am more interested in the survey you recommended earlier - Tracey Rowland's Catholic Theology, so I can better treat Rome with the respect of being serious theologians - a respect many Roman Catholics give to Luther.
[Y]
Ken McGuire said:That said, it has seemed odd to me that Verbum is out on its own, and the Eastern Orthodox packages are part of Logos itself.
I think that if there were a lot more English-speaking Orthodox Christians, they would both expect and have their own third brand. But I am much less qualified to speak for them on this point than I am for Catholics, or even Protestants.
Ken McGuire said:As much as I want to talk across the fence, good fences do sometimes make good neighbors.
Indeed. And one can buy most of the Protestant Bile/theology stuff Faithlife offers on Verbum.com and most of the Catholic stuff it offers on Logos.com, so I think that works.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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MJ. Smith said:
My personal opinion is that it is ridiculous for Faithlife to have two versions of the software to maintain -- increased costs make that ridiculous. However, it is reasonable for Faithlife to market the same code as three products - Evangelical - Catholic - and academic. Evangelical has one set of defaults priorities, canon, reading plans, guide sections and is marketed as Logos; Catholic has a different set and is marketed as Verbum; Academic/Ecumenical has everything and allows the user to set source of priorities and is marketed as Faithlife Academic. One software package = lower maintenance and development cost; marketing options keeps the easily irritated on both side blissfully ignorant.
What I don't like is being second fiddle.I think a trefold software like that could be a good idea! I'd like to have the wider canon in ressources and functions (that's why I bought packages from the Verbum line of Academics), but don't really need that much popes and saints [:D]
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I remember having a negative reaction to the creation of Verbum--both the discrimination and the chasm bugged me--but I do get the reason for it. There are significant differences, not to mention plenty of historical animosity. I've gotten to the place where I accept the current situation and am fine with it.
However, I do have a question. Is there anything that prevents a person from dl'ing and running both versions on the same system? If the answer is no, is there a real problem? I run L3 and L5 or 6 on my older computer simultaneously, and find that there are certain benefits from having two apps running together. Yes, I know they are genetically different programs. Still, is that not an option with Verbum and Logos? If it is, I assume it's because they are so similar to each other...which (if so) makes me wonder why such similarity isn't even more similar (if you get my drift).
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David Paul said:
. Is there anything that prevents a person from dl'ing and running both versions on the same system?
No - a number of people on the forums are doing this
David Paul said:f the answer is no, is there a real problem?
The only issue I am aware of is disk space as each one requires its own download of resources etc - they are not shared.
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Martin Wetzel said:
s, if a 'united' logos/verbum project would have some catholic touch
Faithlife got a dose of the evangelical reaction when for a short time there was an option to define the canon in the program settings. It brought out the worst of a small number of users of Logos ... but my observation was that the issue was not theological, it was much more how much diversity the individuals had experienced and how open they were to experience it. My very conservative, rural, fundamentalist parents in their 90's loved the diversity of their urban retirement home - excited to tell us about their newest discovery from the caregiver from Burkina Faso or the religion of their Armenian dinner mate ... these Logosians were the polar opposites of my parents.
Separate marketing - yes. Separate development is a ridiculous increase in cost most likely derived from not understanding how much of a continuum their market is.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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JT (alabama24) said:
The same is true with the "on this day in history" feature.
But at the moment we do have it ... I amuse myself by observing how recent history appears to be ... we've been told there will be a difference in content but I haven't seen it yet.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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David Wanat said:
It stands to reason that people want to use the software according to their beliefs. As such, they probably wouldn’t invest in books outside of them.
Given the advice of my parish priest --> for Bible studies buy from Lutheran publishers, for liturgy but from Anglican and Orthodox publishers, for theology buy from Catholic publishers ... yes, there is a large slice of Catholics that are more concerned tags than content. I am actually more concerned with Orthodox in the recent diaspora needing a software to call their own ... they already depend heavily on websites and ebooks. I wish Faithlife would step up to that plate but finding the right intermediary is problematic.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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David Paul said:
Is there anything that prevents a person from dl'ing and running both versions on the same system?
No, I do it all the time - one in beta, one in production. However, there are certain items e.g. the Passage Guide that is actually changed by opening in Verbum after creating in Logos that I have to remember not to do. And there are many forum questions that I don't bother to answer because it requires switching which application I have up. Yes, I can run them simultaneously if I close my browser, screen capture, and word processor. But I simply don't think I should have to run both for basic functions, especially when I know it increases the software development costs. I have no problem with switching apps to find differences in default priorities, etc.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:JT (alabama24) said:
The same is true with the "on this day in history" feature.
But at the moment we do have it ... I amuse myself by observing how recent history appears to be ... we've been told there will be a difference in content but I haven't seen it yet.
I don't have it and I'm V9 Platinum. How do you have it?
KSC
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I don’t think of it as a tag issue. I see it as people looking for more insights into their own beliefs. What you quoted should be interpreted in that light.MJ. Smith said:David Wanat said:It stands to reason that people want to use the software according to their beliefs. As such, they probably wouldn’t invest in books outside of them.
Given the advice of my parish priest --> for Bible studies buy from Lutheran publishers, for liturgy but from Anglican and Orthodox publishers, for theology buy from Catholic publishers ... yes, there is a large slice of Catholics that are more concerned tags than content. I am actually more concerned with Orthodox in the recent diaspora needing a software to call their own ... they already depend heavily on websites and ebooks. I wish Faithlife would step up to that plate but finding the right intermediary is problematic.
I do use the Verbum, Orthodox, and Anglican sets. I picked up a lot of the other packages under the 50% discount for L8 mainly for the ability to read the actual words of the early Protestant founders.
WIN 11 i7 9750H, RTX 2060, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD | iPad Air 3
Verbum Max0 -
Kevin S. Coy said:
I don't have it and I'm V9 Platinum. How do you have it?
I turned it on in the home page:
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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David Wanat said:
I don’t think of it as a tag issue. I see it as people looking for more insights into their own beliefs.
I dare you to find anything written by an Orthodox author on liturgical theology - or liturgy - that is different from Catholic beliefs. In some cases we use identical liturgical books and borrow catechisms. With the possible except of interpretations of Paul on grace, how much do you have to strain to find something in a Lutheran Bible commentary that differs from a Catholic one? One of the strengths of Logos is that it allows us to build a library based on the quality of the scholarship rather than the denominational tag.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:Kevin S. Coy said:
I don't have it and I'm V9 Platinum. How do you have it?
I turned it on in the home page:
Interesting. I can't find where I have the ability to turn it on at the home page.
KSC
“Let us begin, brothers, to serve the Lord God, for up until now we have done little or nothing.” St. Francis of Assisi
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Try:
Home Page [get to]
Explore gear thing [click on]
Check Verbum Training Videos [click on]
Gave me a card: layout Ver 9 class [click on] [but not the same view as above posts]
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Kevin S. Coy said:
I can't find where I have the ability to turn it on at the home page.
In the Explore section
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Thanks Dave and MJ! I do not have the choice (see image)....so I guess some Verbumites pay for a lesser product not only as Logosians but among Verbumites as well! [:(]
“Let us begin, brothers, to serve the Lord God, for up until now we have done little or nothing.” St. Francis of Assisi
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Kevin S. Coy said:
Thanks Dave and MJ! I do not have the choice (see image)....so I guess some Verbumites pay for a lesser product not only as Logosians but among Verbumites as well!
I wonder if this is a case of having both Verbum and Logos packages. I, like MJ, have the option. But I suspect that our also having others expands our options.
As a note, “Today in History“ seems to be aimed at a Protestant set of references. Many of them don’t show have any information when clicked on. I suspect it’s because I don’t have the resources in the right tiers.
WIN 11 i7 9750H, RTX 2060, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD | iPad Air 3
Verbum Max0 -
David Wanat said:Kevin S. Coy said:
Thanks Dave and MJ! I do not have the choice (see image)....so I guess some Verbumites pay for a lesser product not only as Logosians but among Verbumites as well!
I wonder if this is a case of having both Verbum and Logos packages. I, like MJ, have the option. But I suspect that our also having others expands our options.
As a note, “Today in History“ seems to be aimed at a Protestant set of references. Many of them don’t show have any information when clicked on. I suspect it’s because I don’t have the resources in the right tiers.
I think you are right.
Thanks,
KSC
“Let us begin, brothers, to serve the Lord God, for up until now we have done little or nothing.” St. Francis of Assisi
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David Wanat said:
I wonder if this is a case of having both Verbum and Logos packages. I, like MJ, have the option. But I suspect that our also having others expands our options.
I have both Logos 9 and Verbum 9 libraries, as well as Verbum Now. I used to have the Today in Christian History option on my Home page... and now I see that I don't anymore.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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SineNomine said:David Wanat said:
I wonder if this is a case of having both Verbum and Logos packages. I, like MJ, have the option. But I suspect that our also having others expands our options.
I have both Logos 9 and Verbum 9 libraries, as well as Verbum Now. I used to have the Today in Christian History option on my Home page... and now I see that I don't anymore.
Interesting. I should check and see if the option is missing now
WIN 11 i7 9750H, RTX 2060, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD | iPad Air 3
Verbum Max0 -
SineNomine said:
I have both Logos 9 and Verbum 9 libraries, as well as Verbum Now. I used to have the Today in Christian History option on my Home page... and now I see that I don't anymore.
Are you a beta user? The resource was available for a period of time to beta users for testing purposes.
Andrew Batishko | Logos software developer
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SineNomine said:
I have both Logos 9 and Verbum 9 libraries, as well as Verbum Now. I used to have the Today in Christian History option on my Home page... and now I see that I don't anymore.
Are you a beta user? The resource was available for a period of time to beta users for testing purposes.
Yes. But I should also have a license to it.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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I was told by Faithlife the Logos and Verbum engine is the same so I assumed all the content was the same. I have long believed Faithlife should have the Faithlife bible software for everyone with one engine to run it all and everyone has the same features and content but depending on what base packages you have fuel the software.
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