Another Blog Blooper
In another recent blog post, this time covering the topic of Gog and Magog, Michael Heiser focuses on the concept of "the north", which he says is the Hebrew word tsaapphohn. He doesn't mention that the first word translated in some Bibles as "north", found in Gen. 14:15, is the Hebrew word sh'm'ohl, which also means "left". This correlation stems from the fact that directions in Scripture are based on the perspective of facing east toward the rising sun. This is the perspective YHWH would have when seated upon the mercy seat in the holy of holies. Facing east, north is to the left. For this reason, one may attach most of the observations Heiser makes regarding "north" and tsaapphohn with sh'm'ohl and "left". This concept can be seen in play in Yeishuua`'s "Parable of the Sheep and the Goats", (Mt. 25:41) with the goats (associated with "the devil and his demons") described as being on the King's "left hand", which can be understood as on the north side.
This overlooked association aside, I agree with the general perspective Heiser brings to the discussion of "the north" and it's positional relationship with YHWH's prophetic enemies. The point that I take issue with is what he says about Antiochus IV Epiphanes attacking "from the north". While A4E was certainly from the north (bringing all the prophetic baggage that entails), he attacked Jerusalem from the SOUTH. He was in Egypt in the midst of a successful war against the Ptolemys, when a representative of the Romans showed up and demanded that A4E immediately turn around and return home, famously drawing a circle in the dirt around A4E and insisting that he give his reply to Rome's demand before he stepped across the line. Feeling enraged and humiliated at having his victory snuffed out, it was very soon thereafter that he received a message about an internecine Jewish "revolt" that he interpreted as a revolt against him. The actions for which he is most infamous (desecrating the temple) resulted from his state of mind at that time as he passed through Judea from the South on his way back home to Syria.
These details can be found in 1 & 2 Maccabees. It might seem a small detail, but it is nevertheless a critical fact that carries its own prophetic significance.
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Comments
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I would say, this post has successfully jumped the forum-rules track, while teetering on the FL-started-it track.
That said, a current 'read' from Logos (apocalyptic in the late 2nd Temple) makes the same observations, struggling with directionality vs threat (left/north, right/south). Where the problem gets convoluted is the Lexham apocrypha translation, as well as the NABRE (my favorite). So, Heiser has good company.
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DMB said:
I would say, this post has successfully jumped the forum-rules track, while teetering on the FL-started-it track.
Maybe OP needs a blog.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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DMB said:
while teetering on the FL-started-it track.
Perhaps the appropriate place for the original post is as a response to the blog.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:DMB said:
while teetering on the FL-started-it track.
Perhaps the appropriate place for the original post is as a response to the blog.
Well, I did try, but try as I might, I couldn't find any way to leave a comment on the blog post. I do see the single comment at the end, but I don't see any way to add a comment. If someone has a solution, I'm all ears.
The forum has a sub-head for "Logos Blog", which is what I posted under.
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"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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DMB said:
That said, a current 'read' from Logos (apocalyptic in the late 2nd Temple) makes the same observations, struggling with directionality vs threat (left/north, right/south).
I would actually like to peruse this resource if you don't mind sharing the reference.
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"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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David Paul said:
Well, I did try, but try as I might, I couldn't find any way to leave a comment on the blog post.
It does seem to have disappeared in the new format ... I look at it so rarely I hadn't noticed.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
It does seem to have disappeared in the new format ... I look at it so rarely I hadn't noticed.
Now, now, let's be careful. Libby's in alt over the new blog format. She doesn't read the articles, since they're all mixed up. But scratching the images, everything is in gorgeous Libby red. After the disaster in 2009 (L4-battleship-grey), Libby's been moping around.
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David Paul said:
I would actually like to peruse this resource if you don't mind sharing the reference.
I was reading in the Seleucid volume from:
https://www.logos.com/product/155994/the-library-of-second-temple-studies-2016-2017
I don't think it picked up on Antiochus being in Egypt (didn't persue the Egypt angle) and my brain is exhausted from the arguments viz Daniel. So, I wouldn't pursue it ... your present resources appear superior.
That said, the above is a great collection (except maybe the gender one on Qumran). I never picked up on the problem with Phinehas, until now. I knew there was a problem. And the aramaic volume is a jewel for lexical analysis.
The odd translation which you might (or not) review was 1 Mac 9:27 and the handling of 'prophet'.
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DMB said:
And the aramaic volume is a jewel for lexical analysis.
What one or two nuggets did you glean from this one?
DMB said:The odd translation which you might (or not) review was 1 Mac 9:27 and the handling of 'prophet'.
That is a rather odd turn of phrase. I think Josephus also mentions the lack or "end" of prophets, but whether that time period had active spokesmen for YHWH or not, the events of that time bore massive prophetic importance. The transition from 1 Macc. 7 (where a fast to YHWH brought the near obliteration of the 3rd iteration of Daaniyyei'l's beast power) to 1 Macc. 8 (where Judah literally invites the 4th iteration of the beast into the Jews affairs, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory) is a spectacular blunder that rivals anything found in previous Scripture...a true "last straw" kind of moment, one which fully mimicked yet wholly trumped Asa's earlier blunder (2 Chr. 16). But for that foolishness, the Romans may not have been in Judea to crucify Yeishuua` or raze Jerusalem. I have no doubt that Judah was dead in ch. 9 because of the rank Jer. 4:22 style stupidity he displayed in ch. 8, which planted all of the poisonous seeds that erupted into the Hasmonean abomination (a unified Levite king/priest), the Pharisees, the Sadducees, and the political and prophetic train wreck that was the Herodians' heyday.
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"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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David Paul said:
erupted into the Hasmonean abomination (a unified Levite king/priest), the Pharisees, the Sadducees, and the political and prophetic train wreck that was the Herodians' heyday.
Very true. I've seen a couple authors now, who present much of the apocrypha, as trying to overlay politics (M-bees) over a post-Persian conservative priesthood. One volume only in hardback (not Logos) I'd like, looks at the possible influence of Persapolis over Jerusalem ... not the simplistic Zorasterism, but odd textual parallels (incl Gog/Magog). I already forgot the title (Amazon), since I it sounds a bit of a stretch.
Found it (see TOC):
https://www.amazon.com/Persepolis-Jerusalem-Influence-Apocalyptic-Hermeneutic/dp/0567205517
David Paul said:What one or two nuggets did you glean from this one?
Oh my ... where to start. You asked ... sorry (!):
- He goes into considerable depth on the issues of developing a text-base analytical comparison. Tov also tried, ending up with the Leningrad MT, a Samaritan, and an LXX composite (all of which are a bit shaky). For me, in training neural nets to 'write Apostle Paul', the big problem was trying to isolate 'Paul'. Took months of work, and oddly matches this author's discussion.
- The image below illustrates just a little of the breadth of this author's work, here looking at the DSS aramaic vs Onkelos (I think Babylon, if I remember). Frankly, I suspect this type of analysis will consume future Bible analytics.
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DMB said:
One volume only in hardback (not Logos) I'd like, looks at the possible influence of Persapolis over Jerusalem ... not the simplistic Zorasterism, but odd textual parallels (incl Gog/Magog). I already forgot the title (Amazon), since I it sounds a bit of a stretch.
Found it (see TOC):
https://www.amazon.com/Persepolis-Jerusalem-Influence-Apocalyptic-Hermeneutic/dp/0567205517
Rather shocked this isn't offered in Logos--an obvious oversight. There is another book by Silverman that is gathering interest.
Both of these books should be included in an LHB/OTS annual collection series. The Persepolis book in particular should already be in Logos since it's from 2012. The fourth chapter looks particularly interesting. Given Miykhaa'eil's head-butting with the Prince of Persia (which, of course, was the 2nd iteration of the beast), this definitely seems worth a read.
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"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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David Paul said:
There is another book by Silverman that is gathering interest.
Thanks for the heads-up ... $18 looks a shade better than $111 (Amazon)!
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David Paul said:
He doesn't mention that the first word translated in some Bibles as "north", found in Gen. 14:15, is the Hebrew word sh'm'ohl, which also means "left". This correlation stems from the fact that directions in Scripture are based on the perspective of facing east toward the rising sun
Probably not supportive of your point, but north/left and south/right shows up at Mari (tribal distinctions).
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