Urgent & Important Request: WordSearch KJV to be transferred to the Logos Bible Library

Dear Faithlife Family and Logos / WordSearch Users:

I have been a customer for over 10 years and a volunteer missionary in sharing the benefits of Logos products with others. I'm also a WordSearch customer, too.

Did you hear that Faithlife acquired WordSearch and it's entire digital library?

I was informed that the WordSearch library is being transferred to Logos which is great!

The reason I am sharing this important message and request is because there is a major misunderstanding and oversight with the issue of not transferring the WordSearch KJV Bible.

But I was told that the WordSearch KJV Bible will not be transferred to Logos because the Logos library already has a KJV Bible in the library.

As a result, the e-mail from Faithlife Logos Customer Support stated that they will "retire" the WordSearch KJV Bible.

There is only one KJV Bible in Logos (KJV 1900) and it does not have periscopes (ie: headings/subheadings and proper spacings) through the text.

I have purchased the printed Bibles such as: The Open KJV Bible, the KJV Study Bible, etc. and they all have proper spacing and periscopes.

There is not an option in Logos to purchase a KJV Bible with the proper spacing and periscopes.

The reason why the WordSearch KJV is so important is because it includes the proper spacing and periscope which makes it much easier to read and study.

Please take a look at the WordSearch KJV Bible here:

As you can see, this WordSearch KJV Bible is one of a kind, especially if it were transferred to the Logos Library.

There is only one KJV (1900) in the Logos Bible Library.

It looks like this:

Compared to the WordSearch KJV, this Logos KJV is harder to read without the periscope and spacing.

I have made several phone calls to Logos, Faithlife and even WordSearch (Lifeway) and they all referred me back to the forums to make a suggestion.

I followed through with the forums but I feel like my voice is not being heard.

Here are the links to my forum entries concerning this urgent and important request:

1.  https://community.logos.com/forums/p/200850/1166936.aspx#1166936

2.  https://community.logos.com/forums/p/183308/1167110.aspx#1167110

I feel like Logos has a valuable resource, asset and opportunity with the WordSearch KJV to be added to the Logos Library and to be informed that they are NOT planning to transfer but to RETIRE it is really bad news.

I also called Logos Sales department to see if I could purchase another kind of KJV Bible such as the Open KJV Bible or Study Bible that includes the proper spacing and periscopes but they said they have NO KJV Bible that includes what I am looking for.

I called Logos Tech support and they showed me how I can link the Logos KJV Bible with the Outline Bible so that I can follow along with the other Bible's periscope and then go back and forth with the text. Here is a screenshot of what that looks like below.

Even though I found a work around using The Outline Bible, which is an awesome tool, yet this is nothing like using the WordSearch KJV Bible as a good "Go To Bible" -- reading and study Bible.

I am making an urgent appeal that this specific WordSearch KJV Bible will also be transferred to Logos since it is part of the WordSearch Library. Logos Bible Software has only one KJV and it does not include any headings whatsoever. This WordSearch KJV Bible makes a great reading and study Bible and would be an asset for the Logos Library. Here is the information:

WordSearch KJV Number: 005619461

https://app.wordsearchbible.lifeway.com/library/title/005619461

I am making an urgent appeal that this specific WordSearch KJV Bible will also be transferred to Logos since it is part of the WordSearch Library.

https://app.wordsearchbible.lifeway.com/library/title/005619461

It is my prayer that Faithlife will transfer the WordSearch KJV to the Logos Bible Software Library.

Blessings,
Curtis

PS: How many of you all would like to see the WordSearch KJV in the Logos Bible Software digital library?

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Comments

NB.Mick

PS: How many of you all would like to see the WordSearch KJV in the Logos Bible Software digital library?

I personally understand your strong feeling that since you owned a KJV bible with very detailed section headings, the Logos Standard-KJV without any headings does not appear to give the same functionality (noting, however, that the Logos standard KJV has much more functionality than the WordSearch one ever had). While there's not always a 1:1 equivalence of functionality, having section headings versus not having them at all is a difference - and Logos is able to support such bibles.

However, since we've seen the incredible effort it takes to produce a bible, I'm not in favor of Faithlife making an effort to produce the exact same edition of the KJV WordSearch sold (or gave away, whatever it was). In fact, Logos has several editions of the KJV/AV - one of which, the Webster edition of 1833, has nearly the same section headings as the WordSearch KJV (it seems, Wordsearch took those or a similar source and modernized the spelling a bit). So my proposition to Faithlife would be to give a license to the Webster edition to all who owned the WS KJV and ask for section headings (or: to all who owned the WS KJV, period - which would be a very gracious move).

Ken McGuire

I thought real KJV users read things like this:

Curtis

PS: How many of you all would like to see the WordSearch KJV in the Logos Bible Software digital library?

I personally understand your strong feeling that since you owned a KJV bible with very detailed section headings, the Logos Standard-KJV without any headings does not appear to give the same functionality (noting, however, that the Logos standard KJV has much more functionality than the WordSearch one ever had). While there's not always a 1:1 equivalence of functionality, having section headings versus not having them at all is a difference - and Logos is able to support such bibles.

However, since we've seen the incredible effort it takes to produce a bible, I'm not in favor of Faithlife making an effort to produce the exact same edition of the KJV WordSearch sold (or gave away, whatever it was). In fact, Logos has several editions of the KJV/AV - one of which, the Webster edition of 1833, has nearly the same section headings as the WordSearch KJV (it seems, Wordsearch took those or a similar source and modernized the spelling a bit). So my proposition to Faithlife would be to give a license to the Webster edition to all who owned the WS KJV and ask for section headings (or: to all who owned the WS KJV, period - which would be a very gracious move).

Hi NB. Mick,

Thank you for taking the time to provide your thoughtful feedback concerning the transfer of the WordSearch library to the Logos Library, specifically the WordSearch KJV Bible.

You are correct. The "Logos standard KJV" Bible that is in the Logos Bible Software "has much more functionality than the WordSearch one ever had." That's because with the Logos Bible Software, you can search, cross reference, highlight, etc.

That has nothing to do with my urgent and important request.

As a WordSearch customer, I was informed that Faithlife acquired WordSearch and was assured that my whole and complete digital WordSearch library would be transferred over to the Logos Bible Software library.

As I kept an eye on the list of digital books that were being transferred over to Logos, I noticed that the WordSearch KJV was not being transferred.

Since that was the only reason I used the WordSearch app and website was solely for the reading and studying of the WordSearch KJV, this raised a lot of concern.

I never enjoyed reading and studying from the Logos standard KJV Bible because of the format that it comes in.

See below:

If you compare the Logos standard KJV with other Bible versions, you will see that the other versions are easier to read because of the periscopes and the formatting (not referring modernized language).

But the issue is, I enjoy reading and studying from the KJV Bible.

The fact that the Logos Library does not include a standard KJV Bible with periscopes is shocking.

I bought the a few KJV reference Bibles in print such as: The Open Bible and many others and they include periscopes. But when you buy these KJV Bibles in Logos, it does not come with it at all. Logos offers you a basic KJV, nothing more and nothing less.

Yes, I could use "the Webster edition of 1833" since it "has nearly the same section headings as the WordSearch KJV" as you stated but I do not want to read and study and memorize from The Webster edition. I want to read and study and memorize from the KJV edition.

My main point is this, Faithlife/Logos customer service sent me an e-mail and stated that because Logos already has a KJV Bible, they don't see the need of transferring the WordSearch KJV to the Logos library.

Since they don't see the need to add the WordSearch KJV Bible to the Logos library, they are planning to RETIRE the WordSearch KJV Bible.

Faithlife should keep their promise in transferring all of the WordSearch library to the Logos Library as they promised the WordSearch customers, which would include the WordSearch KJV Bible.

And if they were to add WordSearch KJV Bible to the Logos library, with all the extra functions that Logos Bible Software includes, it would make this KJV Bible much better than the "Logos standard KJV" Bible.

You mentioned or commented about "the incredible effort it takes to produce a Bible" then went on to say that you're "not in favor of Faithlife making an effort to produce the same exact edition of the KJV WordSearch" Bible available to Logos.

My response is this:

1. Since Faithlife informed the WordSearch customers that their digital library would be transferred over to the Logos library, and since the WordSearch KJV Bible is included in that library, it is of my opinion that it would NOT take an "incredible effort" to transfer this WordSearch KJV Bible to Logos.

2. Since the Logos Library does not include any standard KJV Bibles with periscopes, this would be a perfect opportunity to transfer the WordSearch KJV over to Logos which would benefit all those who love to read and study and to memorize the standard KJV Bible.

3. As a WordSearch customer and as a Logos customer, I would really like to see "MY" WordSearch KJV Bible to be transferred over to "MY" Logos Bible Software library as promised.

If you're not a WordSearch customer and if you do not use and appreciate the WordSearch KJV Bible as we or I do, I am not sure if you truly understand where I am coming from and why this is my urgent and important request for Faithlife to fulfill their promise to transfer OUR WordSearch digital library which includes the WordSearch KJV Bible to OUR Logos digital library.

What would be a "very gracious move" in my humble opinion is for Faithlife to fulfill their promise to the WordSearch customers.

The reason that they gave me for not transferring the WordSearch KJV Bible is because Logos already includes the standard KJV Bible. And that is another reason I spoke up about this issue because it is my opinion that the WordSearch KJV Bible is easier to read and to study from.

My other Logos KJV Bibles that should have included the periscopes did not come through so I feel like I didn't receive what I paid for especially since the other KJV Bibles in printed format includes the periscopes.

I do, however, appreciate your time and recommended suggestions in using the Webster edition of 1833 and the work around solutions.

Blessings,

Curtis

I decided to contact Logos customer service about this issue

Curtis

I thought real KJV users read things like this:

Hi Ken,

I am not sure if you are trying to be funny or sarcastic but I want to clarify a few issues.

1. Not all KJV users read, study and memorize from the the original 1611 KJV. However, I do appreciate the KJV 1611 Bible.

2. As a WordSearch customer, I enjoyed reading and studying from the WordSearch KJV Bible.

3. As a Logos Bible Software customer, I currently use the work around way to best utilize my Logos library which includes the KJV 1900 that does not include any periscopes.

4. The reason I like to read, study and to memorize from the KJV Bible is because it does not omit important parts of the Scriptures. If you take a modern day Bible such as NIV, NASB, NLT, etc. and look up Luke 4:4 and Luke 4:8, you will see that they omit Jesus' own words. There are so many other verses where the translators omit the inspired Word of God. You can read more here: https://inspiredwritings.com/bible-versions

Anyway, my point is not to get into a discussion or argument concerning which is the best Bible to read, study and to memorize from.

I am thankful that we have the "inspired Word of God" and I do believe in 2 Timothy 3:16, 17.

So with this in mind, why omit Jesus' own words in Luke 4:4 and Luke 4:8 and so many other passages in Scripture?

Even with this in mind, I do read and study and cross reference to other Bible versions for comparative study. It is my preference to memorize from the KJV Bible. I can't imagine memorizing Luke 4:4 and Luke 4:8 in any of the modern Bibles such as NIV, NASB, NLT, etc. I want to make sure I am memorizing the complete Bible text, including Jesus' own words.

Again, I am going back to my original urgent and important request that Faithlife will prayerfully reconsider their decision and transfer the WordSearch KJV Bible to the Logos Library as promised.

When I heard that Faithlife acquired WordSearch digital library, I was grateful that ALL of my WordSearch Library was going to be transferred to Logos and then I would have the full search features and functionality to use with my WordSearch library.

I was disappointed to learn why they were deciding not to transfer the WordSearch KJV because Logos already has the standard KJV. What they don't realize is that there are a lot of added benefits with the WordSearch KJV.

That is the main point and message I am trying to get across and to send this urgent and important request to the decision makers at Faithlife.

Logos Bible Software is an awesome Bible study tool. Wouldn't you agree?

Blessings,

Curtis

Graham Criddle

Hi Curtis

There is only one KJV (1900) in the Logos Bible Library. It looks like this:

This is not in response to the request for pericope headings - I understand that and I believe, from another thread, that Phil Gons is looking into it.

I noted that in your screenshot of the Logos KJV you have one verse per line. Are you aware that you can have it display in paragraphs which results in something more like what you see in Wordsearch?

It looks as though you have the One verse per line option selected in the Bible text only resource filter. Have you tried disabling that and seeing if it is any better?

Curtis

Hi Curtis

There is only one KJV (1900) in the Logos Bible Library. It looks like this:

This is not in response to the request for pericope headings - I understand that and I believe, from another thread, that Phil Gons is looking into it.

I noted that in your screenshot of the Logos KJV you have one verse per line. Are you aware that you can have it display in paragraphs which results in something more like what you see in Wordsearch?

It looks as though you have the One verse per line option selected in the Bible text only resource filter. Have you tried disabling that and seeing if it is any better?

Hi Graham,

Thank you for sharing this cool feature. I will definitely use it.

Blessings,

Curtis

SineNomine

Just a brief note to indicate two things:

1. I hope Faithlife works things out to Curtis's satisfaction.

2. A periscope is a tool for seeing over or around objects. A pericope is a group of verses, often Bible verses; in some editions of certain Bibles, editors have added headings at the beginning of at least some pericopes. Unlike "periscope", "pericope" may not appear in one's electronic spellchecking dictionary.

DAL

I thought real KJV users read things like this:

Man, that’s even worse than Shakespeare! I have an old Spanish Bible in Logos. It’s called Biblia del Oso 1569 and some of the Spanish looks like old English and some it’s hard to understand. Amazing how languages evolve over time!

DAL

Ps. I just checked and Biblia del Oso was either removed from the Spanish Logos website or it only comes included in a base package, but I can’t find it anymore.

Curtis

I thought real KJV users read things like this:

Man, that’s even worse than Shakespeare! I have an old Spanish Bible in Logos. It’s called Biblia del Oso 1569 and some of the Spanish looks like old English and some it’s hard to understand. Amazing how languages evolve over time!

DAL

Ps. I just checked and Biblia del Oso was either removed from the Spanish Logos website or it only comes included in a base package, but I can’t find it anymore.

Hi DAL,

The picture of the 1611 KJV is hard to read. Take a look at this 1611 KJV: https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/1611-Bible/

Blessings,

Curtis

Peter Ryan

As a modern translation user only up to this point, I'd love to see a KJV with pericopes. Looks like some of the print versions include them.

OT: I think the photo posted above looks fantastic - is this the 400th anniv. edition?

DAL

Thanks for sharing that link, Curtis!

Yep, I can read that much better, but the language is old. I can handle ESV 1901 English pretty good, but 1611 or older is different. You can figure some stuff out, but it's definitely harder to read.

DAL

SineNomine

I wonder which version of the 1611 King James that picture is of.

Peter Ryan

My mistake, not the quatercentenary ed. Tried a sample and the font is Roman. Looks good too though...

Peter Ryan

In terms of hard copies with pericopes, there look to be a few different versions.

The KJV Filament Bible (Tyndale) contains what looks to me like slightly modified NLT pericopes (there is also an NLT Filament). Some of the other editions (eg KJV Preaching Bible (Nelson)) appear to have different headings.

Kyle G. Anderson

Thank you for your feedback. We've discussed it internally and will be producing the WordSearch edition of the King James Version.

It will be available to you either Tuesday afternoon or Wednesday morning.

Curtis

Thank you for your feedback. We've discussed it internally and will be producing the WordSearch edition of the King James Version.

It will be available to you either Tuesday afternoon or Wednesday morning.

Hi Kyle,

Here are the current issues since the release of the KJV (WordSearch):

1. The KJV (WS) does not appear in the Logos app on my phone.

2. The KJV (WS) does not appear in my Biblia.com Library by Faithlife: https://biblia.com/books/kjv1900/Is23.16

Here are my questions:

1. How long will it take for the KJV (WS) to appear in my Logos app?

2. Will the KJV (WS) be transferred to my library in Biblia.com?

3. If so, will I be able to use the KJV (WS) in Biblia.com without having to log into the website?

3. Will the KJV (WS) be available to everyone who uses Logos and Biblia.com or only the WordSearch customers?

Note: The KJV (WS) would be an asset and a great resource for everyone, including those who are using the Faithlife products for FREE.

On a positive note:

The KJV (WS) works great in https://app.logos.com/ and in the Logos Bible software.

Here is a screenshot in the Logos Bible Software using the KJV (WS):

Here is a screenshot in the app.logos.com using the KJV (WS):

This is truly a great addition to the Logos Library!

Thank you so much!!!

Blessings,

Curtis

Bradley Grainger (Logos)

1. How long will it take for the KJV (WS) to appear in my Logos app?

2. Will the KJV (WS) be transferred to my library in Biblia.com?

3. If so, will I be able to use the KJV (WS) in Biblia.com without having to log into the website?

3. Will the KJV (WS) be available to everyone who uses Logos and Biblia.com or only the WordSearch customers?

This make take another 24 hours to show up on Biblia and mobile. (If it doesn't, we'll investigate then.) Normally we try to time the release of new resources so they're available on desktop, web, and mobile simultaneously. However, we were just so excited to get this one to you we pushed it out early. [:)]
Yes, but it may take another 24 hours (as per point 1).
Not initially. We don't think there are any legal reasons why we can't make this available to everyone, but it takes some additional configuration on our end to add a new free-to-everyone resource. Thus, initially it will only be available to customers who own it and are logged in.
Not initially. It will only be available to Wordsearch customers who own it, until we push out an update to Biblia that makes it free to all.

David Thomas

Bradley,

Can we get "better" integration between various KJV editions?

1. Which year KJV text is the WordSearch edition? [there is no front matter on the Title Page]

2. Why does the Cambridge Paragraph have Reverse Interlinear (LLS:AV1873 2020-08-14T18:13:00Z AV1873.logos4 RVI:AV1873NT 2020-08-14T17:55:25Z AV1873NT.lbsrvi RVI:AV1873OT 2020-08-14T17:55:25Z AV1873OT.lbsrvi), but the New Cambridge Paragraph (LLS:NCPBWITHAPOCR 2020-08-14T16:40:09Z NCPBWITHAPOCR.logos4) does not?

2b. Are there plans to integrate the Pericope headings of the WordSearch Edition with the Reverse Interlinear Tagging of KJV or AV?

3. Why does the WordStudy KJV (LLS:1.0.15 2009-10-27T19:14:57Z WSKJV.logos4) show up as an "Equivalent Resource", but WordSearch or Cambridge Paragraphs do not? (I can understand why NKJV or MEV are not considered equivalent)

One of my study methods is to compare changes within a "translation family" using collections over time (e.g. ASV, RSV, NRSV, ESV) to note how translators make changes over time. This is a little more difficult when various editions do not show up in the faceted library

Bradley Grainger (Logos)

1. Which year KJV text is the WordSearch edition? [there is no front matter on the Title Page]

I have no idea.

Here's the title page from Wordsearch:

The text (minus the pericope headings) appears to match LLS:1.0.3. Both those resources probably originated from The Online Bible, so according to https://blog.logos.com/in_search_of_the_king_james_ve_1/ it's probably the 1769 Blayney Edition.

2. Why does the Cambridge Paragraph have Reverse Interlinear (LLS:AV1873 2020-08-14T18:13:00Z AV1873.logos4 RVI:AV1873NT 2020-08-14T17:55:25Z AV1873NT.lbsrvi RVI:AV1873OT 2020-08-14T17:55:25Z AV1873OT.lbsrvi), but the New Cambridge Paragraph (LLS:NCPBWITHAPOCR 2020-08-14T16:40:09Z NCPBWITHAPOCR.logos4) does not?

Likely there hasn't been enough user demand to justify the cost of producing a reverse interlinear data set. I found a suggestion that you can vote for here: https://feedback.faithlife.com/boards/logos-data-sets/posts/new-cambridge-paragraph-bible-ncpb-reverse-interlinear

2b. Are there plans to integrate the Pericope headings of the WordSearch Edition with the Reverse Interlinear Tagging of KJV or AV?

No, and I don't know what this means. Pericope headings are never part of a reverse interlinear alignment.

3. Why does the WordStudy KJV (LLS:1.0.15 2009-10-27T19:14:57Z WSKJV.logos4) show up as an "Equivalent Resource", but WordSearch or Cambridge Paragraphs do not? (I can understand why NKJV or MEV are not considered equivalent)

"Equivalent Resources" is an unmaintained feature at this point (AFAICT) but I'll pass the request along.

David Thomas

2b. Are there plans to integrate the Pericope headings of the WordSearch Edition with the Reverse Interlinear Tagging of KJV or AV?

No, and I don't know what this means. Pericope headings are never part of a reverse interlinear alignment.

It would be nice to have Pericope headings (WordSearch edition) AND RI tagging (KJV:1900) in ONE RESOURCE.

Bradley Grainger (Logos)

It would be nice to have Pericope headings (WordSearch edition) AND RI tagging (KJV:1900) in ONE RESOURCE.

Thanks; I understand now.

It's possible that this could happen in the future, but I'd consider it very unlikely. (There isn't a reverse interlinear for LLS:1.0.3, for example, and that's our oldest (length of time in the software, not publication date) KJV resource.)

I created a suggestion to track user interest: https://feedback.faithlife.com/boards/logos-data-sets/posts/wordsearch-king-james-version-kjv-reverse-interlinear

Small Heath

Mine came yesterday. If you click on the burger and select information, you get this:

The King James Version was translated out of the original tongues and with previous translations, including that of William Tyndale and John Wycliffe, which was diligently compared and revised to their existing texts. In the preface of the 1611 edition, the translators stated that it was not their purpose to make a new translation of the Bible but rather to make a good one better. The King James Version is a revision of the Bishop's Bible of 1568.
The King James Bible translators were a collection of some of the world's best scholars. They approached this translation with the mindset that they were translating the very word of God. It was the desire of the translators to make God's Holy Truth more and more known unto the people. The King James Bible has been called "the monument of English prose" as well as "the only great work of art ever created by a committee". The King James Version was presented to King James I when completed in 1611. It has been the Standard English translation for almost four hundred years.
The King James Version is noted for the quality of translation and the majesty of style. The translators were committed to producing an English Bible that would be a precise translation and by no means a paraphrase or broadly approximate rendering. The scholars were fully familiar with the original languages of the Bible and especially gifted in their use of their native English. Because of their reverence for God and His Word, only a principle of utmost accuracy in their translation could be accepted. Appreciating the intrinsic beauty of divine revelation, they disciplined their talents to render well-chosen English words of their time as well as a graceful, often musical, arrangement of language.

David Thomas

If you click on the burger and select information, you get this:

by "the burger", do you mean "the kabob" I may be mistaken, but I believe the nicknames refer to

The King James Version was translated...

I saw that info about the KJV history, but it doesn't specify WHICH KJV is used for this resource. Bradley's explanation of the Open Bible text satisfied my curiosity.