Suggestion: Church Service Layout

This might be a stupid idea, I hope it isn't too crazy but here goes anyway. I was preparing the upcoming church service and needed to make notation of just what order everything was supposed to go in, and to list all Lay memebers who were going to be taking part in the various parts of the service. Then I thought it would be great if there was some portion of Logos 4 where I could do just that. If I wanted to I could list songs, names of candidates to be Baptized that Sunday, Special musicians, etc.

I know others out there would also have great ideas and this is something that would be even better than my ideas. What do you think? [:D]

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Rosie Perera

Is there any particular function of Logos that makes it seem like the ideal software for making an order of worship in? Any reason this service sheet would need to be integrated into your Logos library for searching and linking? Otherwise how is this any different from wishing you could use Logos to write a letter to your denominational board or use Logos to make your church website or manage your church's budget? There are particular software programs for particular uses. The more bloated software gets by trying to put in everything including the kitchen sink, the less easy it is to use and the more inelegant and slow and buggy it gets. This sounds like a Word Processing or Desktop Publishing task to me (best done in Word or Publisher or OpenOffice or some such program), not a Bible Study or Digital Library task. If you need to have the Scripture reading printed in your bulletin, you can copy/paste from Logos into your word processor to do that. I personally would much rather use Word which is already a full-featured word processor than to have Logos reinvent the wheel.

Floyd Johnson

How about building a template for MS Office or OO Writer?

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/116897#Comment_116897

Is there any particular function of Logos that makes it seem like the ideal software for making an order of worship in?

If you look at the Logos sermons online you will find that a number of them are, in fact, orders of worship. Given the hymnals in Logos, I can understand what people consider Logos as a possible repository of working orders of worship. One thing that I am working on at the moment is a way for a pastor to keep track of all the scripture used in his church - worship services, prayer services, adult faith formation classes, Sunday School etc. My thinking is that it would allow for (a) checking periodically that a reasonably wide selection of scripture is used (b) knowing what parishioners have heard recently so one can assume a certain familiarity to a reference and (c) assist in coordinating the scripture used in various settings e.g. homilies and adult formation.

Because I have a very strong interest in Logos allowing Bible study templates (graphic organizers), I see orders of worship as a reasonable expansion of the Bible study templates without any explicit development on Logos' part. What I would not like to see is Logos expanding into the liturgy/worship planning and scheduling arena.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/116909#Comment_116909

How about building a template for MS Office or OO Writer?

There are some available on the web. Just Google "church bulletin template" and you'll find a bunch. Here's a product that is customized specially for making nice church bulletins with inspirational cover art: http://www.clickbook.com/church_bulletins.php

And a church bulletin template in Word provided on Microsoft's own website: http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/templates/TC062577631033.aspx?CategoryID=CT101042981033

Garrett Ho

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/116897#Comment_116897

Otherwise how is this any different from wishing you could use Logos to write a letter to your denominational board or use Logos to make your church website or manage your church's budget?

It isn't exactly the same, but Logos does offer "Ministry Letters"

Alan Macgregor

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/116897#Comment_116897

The more bloated software gets by trying to put in everything including the kitchen sink, the less easy it is to use and the more inelegant and slow and buggy it gets.

I'm with Rosie here. I have templates for orders of service, but they are in my word-processor. I have over a dozen different templates for different orders of service in my two very different churches. We have service projection software, with 1000s of hymn words in its database and the Bible version we use in Sunday worship, in order to do that particular job. Why would I even want Logos to do these things? It's complex enough as it is.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/116923#Comment_116923

The more bloated software gets by trying to put in everything including the kitchen sink, the less easy it is to use and the more inelegant and slow and buggy it gets.

I'm with Rosie here. I have templates for orders of service, but they are in my word-processor. I have over a dozen different templates for different orders of service in my two very different churches. We have service projection software, with 1000s of hymn words in its database and the Bible version we use in Sunday worship, in order to do that particular job. Why would I even want Logos to do these things? It's complex enough as it is.

While I agree with you both that a formal, distributed order of worship is outside what Logos should do and while I find service projection totally outside my experience, I am a bit surprised. Both of you made the assumption he wanted a "finished product" while I assumed he wanted "working notes". It is the "working notes" that I've seen in the online Logos sermons (to my amusement). Since people are already using Logos for this, I don't see any reason to discourage it - at the moment I'd simply see up a Note file for the info. In L3 I'd have been apt to stick it in illustrations since I had no other use for it.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/116928#Comment_116928

The more bloated software gets by trying to put in everything including the kitchen sink, the less easy it is to use and the more inelegant and slow and buggy it gets.

I'm with Rosie here. I have templates for orders of service, but they are in my word-processor. I have over a dozen different templates for different orders of service in my two very different churches. We have service projection software, with 1000s of hymn words in its database and the Bible version we use in Sunday worship, in order to do that particular job. Why would I even want Logos to do these things? It's complex enough as it is.

While I agree with you both that a formal, distributed order of worship is outside what Logos should do and while I find service projection totally outside my experience, I am a bit surprised. Both of you made the assumption he wanted a "finished product" while I assumed he wanted "working notes". It is the "working notes" that I've seen in the online Logos sermons (to my amusement). Since people are already using Logos for this, I don't see any reason to discourage it - at the moment I'd simply see up a Note file for the info. In L3 I'd have been apt to stick it in illustrations since I had no other use for it.

Well, I was at first going to recommend the Notes feature for what he wanted, but since he was asking for a new feature (this is the Suggestions forum after all) and he mentioned Church Service Layout, I figured he was talking about a finished product, not just notes about the service planning. I am open to correction. I just don't think Logos needs to be making church bulletin layout feature into Logos Bible Software. Now if they wanted to add a new product that did that, fine. I wouldn't be surprised if, as Logos expands, they want to add some more products to their offerings. Church membership database software, etc. But none of this sort of thing belongs as part of the core Logos 4 product.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/116951#Comment_116951

But none of this sort of thing belongs as part of the core Logos 4 product.

Got it .. and agree wholeheartedly.

Alan Macgregor

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/116928#Comment_116928

It is the "working notes" that I've seen in the online Logos sermons (to my amusement).

As one who has inadvertently posted "working notes" to the online Logos sermons, please let me explain. These are not "working notes" but are in fact MindGenius mind-maps (from which I have been preaching every Sunday for the last five years) auto-converted by that program into Word format and then imported into Logos as sermons. My idea was to bring all my sermons into Logos and have them as a resources to which to refer when I was doing future sermon preparation, so that I would know what I had previously covered and how. I started this at a time when Logos made the Sermon Addin freely available. They were intended for personal use only. At the time I did not notice that they were going online as well. When I did, I stopped it so that none of my recent sermons are available online in a form that frankly only makes any kind of sense to me.

As well as my current sermons I was adding previous ones, which were full script (going back before 2006 when I started mind-mapping). Though they were hopefully more intelligible than the converted mind-maps those I also stopped when I realised I could turn off the online posting. I hope that explains the "working notes".

At least these were linked to the biblical text. With regard to what Wesley was looking for,

I was preparing the upcoming church service and needed to make notation of just what order everything was supposed to go in, and to list all Lay memebers who were going to be taking part in the various parts of the service. Then I thought it would be great if there was some portion of Logos 4 where I could do just that. If I wanted to I could list songs, names of candidates to be Baptized that Sunday, Special musicians, etc.

, I consider that while useful in themselves, those notes were not really related to Logos Bible Software and could be much better done using different programs.

Every blessing

Alan

Wesley Crouch

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/116897#Comment_116897

Is there any particular function of Logos that makes it seem like the ideal software for making an order of worship in? Any reason this service sheet would need to be integrated into your Logos library for searching and linking? Otherwise how is this any different from wishing you could use Logos to write a letter to your denominational board or use Logos to make your church website or manage your church's budget?

When I study my message I am in logos, when I am thinking, praying, and just getting ready for the service I am in Logos. And when I am considering who is going to be a part of the service I am using Logos. I just thought (Maybe ignorantly) that a software which is built by Christians, for the use of the Pastor the Teacher the Lay leader built for the Church might be a good idea.

I'm sorry I only had an idea. i guess i was wrong.

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/117023#Comment_117023

When I study my message I am in logos, when I am thinking, praying, and just getting ready for the service I am in Logos. And when I am considering who is going to be a part of the service I am using Logos. I just thought (Maybe ignorantly) that a software which is built by Christians, for the use of the Pastor the Teacher the Lay leader built for the Church might be a good idea.

I'm sorry I only had an idea. i guess i was wrong.

No need to apologize. We all have our own way of working.

I've been using Logos since 1.6 and, while I used Logos for Bible study and sermon prep, I've never used it for sermon notes that I'd take to the pulpit. In L3, I used the note files to keep a list of passages I used for Calls to Worship and Calls to Confession. I'd be able to search for key words that tied in with the theme of the message and I put a list of dates used at the top of each note. I've since moved that into WordPerfect, since the structure of the note files makes that use less convenient now, and there's no direct way to import a poetic passage into WordPerfect without the CBV which either introduces too much formatting or none (using paste unformatted). So I recreated those note files in WordPerfect, formatted the passages the way I want, and just copy/paste from there into my standard liturgy (a WordPerfect document that functions as a template).

All of this is made much simpler with a two monitor system with L4 maximized on one monitor and WP on the other. Using Win7, I can 'pin' my Calls to Worship, and my Calls to Confession to the WP icon, so they're always easily available. My liturgy template I open with a macro that automatically uses the "Save as" command when I open it through the macro, so that I remember to rename it immediately (so I don't accidentally save the original as a filled out document). In that sense I'm always in Logos and always in WP, at the same time.

Logos has stated that they are not going to develop the note files to function like a word processor, and the sermon-file add-in is certainly no environment in which to write a sermon either (IMHO, of course). So I'm resolved to use my word processor of choice for that, as well as for my liturgy.

In other words I use Logos for study, but WP for the documents I carry into the pulpit, or copy for handouts.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/117023#Comment_117023

I just thought (Maybe ignorantly) that a software which is built by Christians, for the use of the Pastor the Teacher the Lay leader built for the Church might be a good idea.

I'm sorry I only had an idea. i guess i was wrong.

If we ever get the ability to build Bible study templates in Logos, templates could be made for orders of worship just as easily. So no, it's not a bad idea nor is it an idea that will never be possible. I suspect that the same idea floated after all the promised features of Logos are available would receive far more attention on how to slip your need into the Logos framework than it did now.

Wesley Crouch

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/117139#Comment_117139

Actually, what I was thinking of wasn't much more than what the Sermon Outline would be. I don't really want it to much more than something to help me remember different portions of the upcoming service and have something to check back on.

All of us would be able to record who helped out, all the way from the Speaker and when he/she spoke, to who took prayer requests or altar workers. Also, just how well (or not so well) they did.

Also it could help us to plan out a something out of the ordinary.

I understand we do all have different needs, because we don't all have the same outline to our services. Very few churches have the same service outline. We all have different needs. but I think this could be a help to all of us.