A Bug or a Feature? - Logos 9.5.SR-1

Gerald P. Swetsky

Are you guys working on the Jewish Sabbath? For shame!

Anyhow SR-1 downloaded here yesterday, I think. Anyhow, it's here. When I fired up Logos this morning, I went into the Library to look something. When I went into sort by Author, the Library obeyed me with one glitch - It opened in the middle of the list. I could move up or down as usual and as I recall, when I went back to sorting by Title, it opened at the top of the list. Going back to sorting by anything else would open in the middle of the list again.

Okay, never mind that, because for some reason that glitch seems to have healed itself. However, now we have another glitch. When I open the Library, it resorts to opening in a window, not a window like opening another resource, but a window covering about seven eighths of my screen. Yes, I know you're going to say grab the corner and enlarge the window to cover the entire display area. That was the first thing I tried, but guess what? It won't open any more than the seven eighths I spoke of. This is annoying. I much prefer the way it used to work!

I just discovered another glitch. If I open the Library and with it open, I mouse over Docs, Guides or Tools, they open without my clicking on them.

Not complaining, just reporting, though I much prefer the way my program worked a couple days ago.

Gerry (If there's a bug in the system, I guarantee I'll be the first to find it) Swetsky

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Gerald P. Swetsky

Addendum - If I open the Docs, Guides or Tools tab, then mouse over any of the other tabs, whatever I have open closes and the new one opens. This includes my Library tab!

Gerry

It won't open any more than the seven eighths I spoke of

I can adjust the size of the window so that it fills the entire screen

This is on Mac - which platform are you running on?

I just discovered another glitch. If I open the Library and with it open, I mouse over Docs, Guides or Tools, they open without my clicking on them.

I'm not seeing this - again it would be good to know which platform you are running on.

Gerald P. Swetsky

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1169125#Comment_1169125

I'm running an ASRock AB350 Pro 4 motherboard with an AMD Ryzen 7 18X processor and an NVIDIA GeForce GTX1070 video card to dual 27 inch monitors. I have 16 GB of RAM and two SSD's. My operating system is Windows 10 with all the mandatory updates. The problem(s) just arose apparently with the SR-1 update.

I just checked this morning and the problems still exist. I'm not experiencing any problems with any other programs.

Gerry

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1169087#Comment_1169087

Addendum - If I open the Docs, Guides or Tools tab, then mouse over any of the other tabs, whatever I have open closes and the new one opens. This includes my Library tab!

This has been the behaviour I have seen for some time - long before 9.5 SR-1.

It seems reasonable behaviour as - presumably - my focus has changed and I would want the app to keep up with me.

Am I missing your point?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1169142#Comment_1169142

I'm running an ASRock AB350 Pro 4 motherboard with an AMD Ryzen 7 18X processor and an NVIDIA GeForce GTX1070 video card to dual 27 inch monitors. I have 16 GB of RAM and two SSD's. My operating system is Windows 10 with all the mandatory updates. The problem(s) just arose apparently with the SR-1 update.

Thanks Gerry

I've just checked on my Windows computer - also running 9.5 SR-1 - and I can't reproduce the behaviour you are describing.

So I'm afraid I don't know why this is happening for you.

Gerald P. Swetsky

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1169154#Comment_1169154

Graham - I open my Library and then I mouse over to another tab WITHOUT CLICKING THE MOUSE!

This is NOT the way Logos has been working, at least not on my computer.

Gerry

Gerald P. Swetsky

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1169156#Comment_1169156

I've updated the drivers for Logitech and NVIDIA. No help.

I can't be the only one experiencing this phenom!

Gerry

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1169237#Comment_1169237

I've updated the drivers for Logitech

Gerry

Sounds as if it’s a mouse issue. Have you tried a different mouse?

Gerald P. Swetsky

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1169241#Comment_1169241

Searched the house for a USB mouse. Plugged it in and just for grins, rebooted the computer.

Same problem. But thanks for the suggestion.

Gerry

Gerald P. Swetsky

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1169246#Comment_1169246

I have a screen capture I tried to upload, but this forum is cryptic. It seems to me the Library used to come up in full screen mode covering everything below the tabs. Now it comes up in a window. ??

Gerry

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1169237#Comment_1169237

Gerald, I am confused. Exactly which reported problem are you trying to solve by updating device drivers for your mouse?

Gerald P. Swetsky

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1169260#Comment_1169260

It was a suggestion. I find it wise to be able to say, "I tried that" to every possible suggestion people may come up with.

Do you have the same or a similar problem? Do you have a suggestion I might try?

Gerry

Gerald P. Swetsky

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1169265#Comment_1169265

Fellow believers, out of frustration, I blew the dust off an old PC, brought it up and loaded Logos on it. It displays the very same problem that my main desktop does!

I guess I must not be good at explaining this bug to you folks. Tomorrow I'll call Logos tech support and explain it to them.

Thank you for all your responses and God bless.

Gerry

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1169156#Comment_1169156

Graham - I open my Library and then I mouse over to another tab WITHOUT CLICKING THE MOUSE!

This is NOT the way Logos has been working, at least not on my computer.

Gerry

Gerry, if the discussion is limited to the Library, Docs, Guides, and Tools tabs, then my install of Logos behaves exactly the same as what you have described. (And yes... without clicking the mouse... simply hovering the mouse.) I believe that's been the typical behavior.

Gerald P. Swetsky

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1169362#Comment_1169362

Graham - I open my Library and then I mouse over to another tab WITHOUT CLICKING THE MOUSE!

This is NOT the way Logos has been working, at least not on my computer.

Gerry

Gerry, if the discussion is limited to the Library, Docs, Guides, and Tools tabs, then my install of Logos behaves exactly the same as what you have described. (And yes... without clicking the mouse... simply hovering the mouse.) I believe that's been the typical behavior.

Yes, that is exactly what I was pointing out - and if you continue across to the right, the behavior continues.

This is in my opinion, a bug and not the way I would expect the program to behave. I have accidentally moused across one of these tabs when I was using the Library. This caused me to have to start my Library window again.

Thanks for your reply,
Gerry

Andrew Batishko

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1169367#Comment_1169367

Yes, that is exactly what I was pointing out - and if you continue across to the right, the behavior continues.

This is in my opinion, a bug and not the way I would expect the program to behave. I have accidentally moused across one of these tabs when I was using the Library. This caused me to have to start my Library window again.

This is not a bug. It's an intentional implementation choice, and has behaved in this way for as long as I can recall. It was implemented this way to mimic the behavior of the main menu in many Windows application.

I have no explanation for why you have not noticed this behavior in the past.

Gerald P. Swetsky

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1169372#Comment_1169372

Well I'm 82 and have been into computers personally and professionally from the day Intel first came out with the microprocessor chip and I've never seen a program that behaves in this fashion. 'Tis a bug IMNSHO!

Gerry

Andrew Batishko

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1169392#Comment_1169392

I just tested Chrome, Firefox, Notepad, Acrobat Reader, as well as a half dozen other less well known programs and every one of their main menus all behave in this fashion.

Perhaps I haven't sufficiently described what I'm talking about. Click on the image below to see this in action. Click once on a menu item, then move your mouse to other top-level menu items.

Gerald P. Swetsky

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1169400#Comment_1169400

We're not talking about drop-down menus here, we're talking about sub-programs and I'm sticking to my guns.

There's not one convenience to what Logos has done here. I've reported it to Logos Tech Support and I'm done arguing with you here, Andrew.

Gerry

Andrew Batishko

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1169406#Comment_1169406

My apologies. I wasn't intending to come across as arguing. I was just attempting to explain why it was intentionally implemented this way.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1169372#Comment_1169372

It was implemented this way to mimic the behavior of the main menu in many Windows application.

Andrew, I concur that there are some apps that act as you have demonstrated. However, I also have other apps/programs that operate as Gerald has requested. Namely, any of the Office Suite of programs with their "Ribbon" interface. [e.g. if I click Home in WORD, then the Home options populate the ribbon, then if I mouse over to insert, draw, design, etc. the Home options remain viewable on the ribbon]

I conclude this is was an intentional UI decision by Faithlife (rather than a bug); but that it is not a universally applied decision. I don't know how early it was implemented in Logos, and personally I'm OK either way [:D]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1169432#Comment_1169432

It was implemented this way to mimic the behavior of the main menu in many Windows application.

Andrew, I concur that there are some apps that act as you have demonstrated.

Just for reference, these include Evernote, iTunes, LibreOffice Writer, Notepad, and Zotero,which are all fairly well established.

Gerald P. Swetsky

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1169524#Comment_1169524

Much as I regret starting this thread... Why? Because you people have twisted this way out of proportion.

One more time! I CLICK on Library. It brings up my Library. The Library is NOT a drop down menu, it is a function of Logos. If I then move over to Docs WITHOUT clicking the mouse, my Library disappears!!! Yes, if I were to bring up my Library, then moved over and CLICKED on Docs, then YES, I would expect my Library to disappear!! But I DIDN'T click on anything.

ITunes doesn't do that, Notepad doesn't do that, Photoshop doesn't do that!

Logos does that and it's annoying! It's also a bug!

Gerry

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1169538#Comment_1169538

One more time! I CLICK on Library. It brings up my Library. The Library is NOT a drop down menu, it is a function of Logos. If I then move over to Docs WITHOUT clicking the mouse, my Library disappears!!!

It's not that I don't understand what you are saying, it's that we don't have a common language. I'll try one more time using slightly different terminology.:

When you simply click on the library icon, what opens is NOT a real window/panel -- it is a temporary panel that is open only as long as the focus is on it ... move outside it and it disappears.
When you choose a menu option - Open,/Open in a new tab/Open in a floating window - you open a realwindow/panel (a persistent window). This remains open until you deliberately close it.
This is the expected behavior and has been the same for many releases. I have wracked my brain trying to figure out what is causing it to seem unfamiliar or wrong to you ...

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1169553#Comment_1169553

When you simply click on the library icon, what opens is NOT a real window/panel -- it is a temporary panel that is open only as long as the focus is on it ... move outside it and it disappears.

This is not what I experience on my Macs. When I click on the Library icon it opens the non-panel library display.

This non-panel will remain open until such time as I actually click on something outside the display, use the display to open a resource or swap spaces, etc.

Moving my cursor anywhere on either of my two screens does not dismiss the display.

Gerald P. Swetsky

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1169586#Comment_1169586

M.J., being as how your computer operates in a different fashion than the rest of ours, this argument is obviously moot.

Gerry

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1169586#Comment_1169586

This is not what I experience on my Macs

Yes - this is one of the interesting implementation differences between Mac and Windows.

On Windows, I see the same behaviour as MJ.

Gerald P. Swetsky

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1169589#Comment_1169589

My computer is a PC, guys and when I bring up my Library, it has always stayed there until I click elsewhere - until SR-1!!!

Gerry

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1169591#Comment_1169591

HI Gerry

I'm trying to understand why we are seeing different results. I've just tried this on a Windows laptop running Logos 9.4

I opened the Library, I then moved the cursor over to the Docs menu and that dropdown opened and the library one closed.

The video at https://1drv.ms/v/s!Ageu8AF7ERmDgd0ZJk40w2HSPxrF6w?e=QfF3ni shows this (apologies for the poor video quality, I don't have video capture software on that computer).

Are the steps I followed the same as those you are following?

Graham

Gerald P. Swetsky

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1169593#Comment_1169593

Here we are, back to square one! M.J. said when he moved his mouse ANYWHERE, the Library closed. On our systems, moving the cursor ANYWHERE without clicking had no effect on the Library UNTIL recently. Now moving the cursor over the Docs, Guides, Tools and several other drop-downs, cancels the Library.

This is the reason I posted! It's an annoying bug that should be corrected! I wish people from Logos would read these posts!

Gerry

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1169597#Comment_1169597

M.J. said when he moved his mouse ANYWHERE

M.J. is a lady

On our systems, moving the cursor ANYWHERE without clicking had no effect on the Library UNTIL recently. Now moving the cursor over the Docs, Guides, Tools and several other drop-downs, cancels the Library.

This is what I am trying to understand. As far as I can see, the behaviour on 9.4 - as shown in the video - is the same as in 9.5 SR1.

Or am I misunderstanding what you are describing?

Gerald P. Swetsky

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1169598#Comment_1169598

I noticed this behavior only recently. I assumed it happened with SR-1. Whenever it happened, I can see no adverse effects with changing it (back).

Gerry

Andrew Batishko

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1169597#Comment_1169597

I wish people from Logos would read these posts!

I have been reading these posts.

The behavior with moving your mouse over other items in the top part of the main window causing the library to close is not new. The application has behaved this way for a long, long time.

As stated earlier, I'm not sure why you are only noticing this behavior now. It's possible this has something to do with how you used to see the Library popup take up the entire screen. I believe there was a recent change to prevent popup windows from taking up the full screen (or even being larger than can fit on the screen).

The smaller size of the Window means that the other buttons are now visible, which means you are now experiencing the behavior that you couldn't see before when the other buttons weren't even visible.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1169598#Comment_1169598

I am trying to understand. As far as I can see, the behaviour on 9.4

also found this behavior (no "u" in American spelling [;)]) in an old installation of 8.5

clicked on Library and displayed a panel

Moved mouse over the Docs button [without clicking] and the doc panel opened

I can't explain why Gerald recalls a different behavior. Andrew's explanation of popup windows seems quite plausible depending upon the monitor size, resolution and scaling permitting the Docs, Guides, Tools buttons to be obscured by the popup.

Gerald P. Swetsky

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1169610#Comment_1169610

First of all, forgive my (mis)spelling of the word behavior. Your spell checker caught it, however I apparently passed over it.

I find it incongruous that, with Logos sitting in front of me, I can mouse over the entire screen with nothing coming up with the exception of a few tags and short descriptions of the resources I have open. However, once I CLICK on Library, Docs, Guides, Tools or some others further right, then the entire top row will respond to my passing my mouse over them!

I'm certain that's a feature. And by the way, I am by no means a newbie. I have been using Logos since the late 1990's.

Gerry (Ignore the 'Gerald')

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1169649#Comment_1169649

And by the way, I am by no means a newbie. I have been using Logos since the late 1990's.

I know and that is why I am as puzzled as you although for different reasons. I'm starting to grasp at straws such as the mouse being set to a more sensitive setting so that it responds more quickly . . .

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1169603#Comment_1169603

I wish people from Logos would read these posts!

I have been reading these posts.

The behavior with moving your mouse over other items in the top part of the main window causing the library to close is not new. The application has behaved this way for a long, long time.

As stated earlier, I'm not sure why you are only noticing this behavior now. It's possible this has something to do with how you used to see the Library popup take up the entire screen. I believe there was a recent change to prevent popup windows from taking up the full screen (or even being larger than can fit on the screen).

The smaller size of the Window means that the other buttons are now visible, which means you are now experiencing the behavior that you couldn't see before when the other buttons weren't even visible.

That seems like a fairly plausible explanation as to why/how the behavior wouldn't be seen/noticed in the past.

Gerald P. Swetsky

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1169657#Comment_1169657

Agreed, Rick; and thank you! I shall to continue to have the Library come up on my second monitor. I much prefer the full screen version.

Gerry

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1169649#Comment_1169649

First of all, forgive my (mis)spelling of the word behavior.

Just so that you know there was no malicious intent on my part, the mention of spelling was my [jovial] jab at Graham, who resides on the Eastern side of the Atlantic. I can truly appreciate how one may feel if he/she senses he is being misunderstood and then some joker picks on some piece of minutia.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1169610#Comment_1169610

I am trying to understand. As far as I can see, the behaviour on 9.4

also found this behavio[u]r [...] in an old installation of 8.5

Fixed it. [;)]

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