Effect of Windows 11 on operation of LOGOS?

Is there any report from LOGOS on the use of FaithLifes' tools running under Windows 11? I know the average user will not have tried this, but I expect LOGOS has been looking at this. Do we need to be cautious about moving too quickly toward Windows 11 when it is released?

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https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1172246#Comment_1172246

PJ please read my post, is the penultimate message in page #2 of this thread. There I explain that even if you don't have a computer with TPM you can install Windows 11 by replacing the appraiserrs.ddl file. I did it and it works. As I said I was able to install Logos with Windows 11 on a computer deemed incompatible by the Microsoft check tool and it is working. Anyways it seems that Microsoft will allow to install Windows 11 on computers with TPM 1.2. My problem now is with the CPU, at this moment it seems that Microsoft don't want to release Windows 11 on a CPU older than 8th generation. In other words to install Windows 11 without using any "trick", you will need at least a coffee lake or whiskey lake CPU. I haven't check about AMD CPUs. Then there are the other things that Microsoft will force you to do, for example, at least with Windows 11 Home (I don't know if it will be the same with Windows 11 Pro), Microsoft won't allow you to install Windows 11 using a local account, you will be forced to use a Microsoft account. Other thing is a web cam, if you have a laptop Microsoft will force you to have a web cam in order to install Windows 11.

MJ. Smith, Sean - Windows 10 will be supported until 2025 but What does that really means? Are they talking only about security patches or that they are going to provide new features and improvements? For example I didn't want to join my laptop to the insiders program so I've not been able to test Linux graphic support with Windows Subsystem Linux, that's a feature that I've been waiting for with great expectation. Is that feature going to be included in Windows 10 21H2? Take that as an example and apply that to many other things.

Again at this point the only reason I haven't switch to Linux is because of Logos. I can mount a VM on Linux just to use Logos but now I wonder if Microsoft will allow you to create a VM with Windows 11 on a computer where you cannot install Windows 11 in the first place.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1172255#Comment_1172255

PJ please read my post, is the penultimate message in page #2 of this thread. There I explain that even if you don't have a computer with TPM you can install Windows 11 by replacing the appraiserrs.ddl file. I did it and it works. As I said I was able to install Logos with Windows 11 on a computer deemed incompatible by the Microsoft check tool and it is working. Anyways it seems that Microsoft will allow to install Windows 11 on computers with TPM 1.2. My problem now is with the CPU, at this moment it seems that Microsoft don't want to release Windows 11 on a CPU older than 8th generation. In other words to install Windows 11 without using any "trick", you will need at least a coffee lake or whiskey lake CPU. I haven't check about AMD CPUs. Then there are the other things that Microsoft will force you to do, for example, at least with Windows 11 Home (I don't know if it will be the same with Windows 11 Pro), Microsoft won't allow you to install Windows 11 using a local account, you will be forced to use a Microsoft account. Other thing is a web cam, if you have a laptop Microsoft will force you to have a web cam in order to install Windows 11.

That is stupid needing a webcam. I think Logos will work fine in WINE. This is why I loved Linux Mint Wine just worked whereas in other Linux distro I had issues. Then again if I spending all my time in WINE why go to Linux?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1172256#Comment_1172256

Randall I forgot to mention that is not even the local account, Microsoft won't allow you to install Windows 11 without an internet connection.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1172259#Comment_1172259

Randall I forgot to mention that is not even the local account, Microsoft won't allow you to install Windows 11 without an internet connection.

Paul Thurrott Windows expert who has been writing for years on Microsoft said the same thing happen when Windows 10 was in beta. So that may change and we may get a local account when release. Nothing I have runs it so I am sticking with what I have. If you do want a new PC/laptop you need to get at least an 8 gen processor. So like an iCore 5 8th gen. I would just wait until after it is released and look for one the comes with Windows 11.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1172212#Comment_1172212

If you just brought 2 years ago you should have TPM 2.0. You will just have to check in the bios and enable it. I am told if your computer is 2017 or newer no issue.

And, as the article MJ suggested notes, you don't need TPM 2.0 anyway.

read Why Windows 11 is forcing everyone to use TPM chips (msn.com) before panicking ... there is a fair chance your setup is fine.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1172312#Comment_1172312

I forgot with Linux you have to enter you password for everything you do. Driver updates, software install etc LOL I am testing Linux Mint I want to see if I can load Logos and Quicken. Not saying I am leaving Windows but like to see if it works.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1172321#Comment_1172321

Well it seems that there is hope. Read this https://zd.net/2URkDEL

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1172367#Comment_1172367

I installed Linux mint on my laptop and I can't install Logos as of yet because .NET 4.7.1 will not finish downloading. So my big plan of switching seems not to be working for the time being. It keeps acting like it is going to finish downloading I am at the end but it seems stuck. The good news is this laptop is nice and fast again. If I can get Logos to work along with Quicken the plan was to switch my Dell Optiplex over. The only thing I hate about Linux is I need to enter passwords for about everything I do. That may be a good thing as I am always forgetting my Windows 10 Microsoft account password because they make me set a pin so I forget the words. LOL

I am stupid I can just use the web app in Linux no more issues.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1172367#Comment_1172367

Well it seems that there is hope. Read this https://zd.net/2URkDEL

They must be upset with the bad press. LOL I heard some PC makers may be exempt in special cases from the requirements. The whole Windows 11 upgrade seems to be a mess. I still think if you have TMP 1.2 or TMP anything in bios let those people upgrade. TMP was made for businesses so the avg user John & Jane Doe have no idea why Microsoft is talking about it.

I am going to go out on a limb but, I would say it is pretty safe to say most if not all people have dual cores that are 1-1.2ghz or faster. This TMP setting is an issue.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1172375#Comment_1172375

I've never gotten Logos/Verbum to work with Wine. I use a Virtual Machine to run Windows 10 so that I can use Verbum in Linux. I also use the VM to remote in to my work computer when I have to. I always find it amusing that I am controlling my work Windows computer remotely in a Virtual Machine in Linux at home...so, three "computers"!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1172417#Comment_1172417

I've never gotten Logos/Verbum to work with Wine. I use a Virtual Machine to run Windows 10 so that I can use Verbum in Linux. I also use the VM to remote in to my work computer when I have to. I always find it amusing that I am controlling my work Windows computer remotely in a Virtual Machine in Linux at home...so, three "computers"!

I had to install wine 32 bit to get Logos to install but it would not run. I clicked on the icon and it disappears but nothing popped up home screen etc. I am going to need a windows machine. Then it came to me like an idiot Logos web app is the same thing. So as long as you can use a browser you have Logos. The only thing is they need to get audio working. ESV hear the word audio bible says not yet supported. I understand the smart people at FaithLife said we will support Windows and Apple then let make a web browser app then we don't need to invest in Linux or whatever comes down the road.

The web app also helps people with slow computers etc login and use everything you own hosted on their server. I couldn't get Quicken to work either so I will need at least one Windows PC for me.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1172420#Comment_1172420

The web app is also great for Chromebooks. The Android app works with them as well, but the web app is easier to use on the Chromebook.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1172420#Comment_1172420

Then it came to me like an idiot Logos web app is the same thing.

Please bear in mind that quite a bit of desktop functionality is not currently available in the web app

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1172425#Comment_1172425

To bring the thread back to the original point, I'm running Logos on the legit build of Windows 11 and it runs fantastic. Maybe even a hair snappier than it was on Windows 10 (startup). No issues found whatsoever.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1172425#Comment_1172425

Then it came to me like an idiot Logos web app is the same thing.

Please bear in mind that quite a bit of desktop functionality is not currently available in the web app

True but, I am sure it will get better over time. I am not anti-windows but if for some reason you don't use Windows or Mac it is a great app.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1172479#Comment_1172479

To bring the thread back to the original point, I'm running Logos on the legit build of Windows 11 and it runs fantastic. Maybe even a hair snappier than it was on Windows 10 (startup). No issues found whatsoever.

What type of hardware are you using cpu etc?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1172495#Comment_1172495

As usual, MS announced Windows 11 with their usual vague language. "Faster", "more productivity", "better", without any specifics. Because of this, I always wait until after the first major update to the OS before installing it. And even then, with caution.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1172509#Comment_1172509

A tech guy I follow on Youtube figure out how to bypass TMP with a registry hack. This allows you to then signup for Windows insider and download Windows 11 dev. I put it on my Dell Optiplex (Logos PC) and I really like it. the guy name is Chris Titus and he has a YT channel his site is https://christitus.com/ and it the first article.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1172543#Comment_1172543

Looks like Windows 11 will probably be a bump free update for Logos. They said there might be some little cross Win 10/11 compatibility things developers will have to contend with but whatever they are working on currently should be supported when Windows 11 arrives.

Maybe some jazzed up interface things going forward. Sounds pretty good.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1172495#Comment_1172495

I'm using positively Old Testament hardware for the beta build. 3rd gen 2.2GH i7 from back when Moses led the children of Israel out of Egypt (bought this machine in 2013!). The machine has 8gb RAM (Because it can't handle more), but was upgraded to a speedy SSD several years ago, which was one of the best technology purchases I've ever made.

Back on May 2nd, I posted stats on the same machine under Windows 10 in a discussion about slow Logos performance. The specs at that time were:

Startup: 0.571 seconds
Showing Main Window 12.227

I just ran the numbers again under Windows 11 and received:

Startup: 0.469 Seconds
Showing Main Window 11.111

So not a big change, but this is still beta code and will likely gain even more efficiencies at release. General operation of Logos feels reasonably responsive in all the testing I've done.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1172630#Comment_1172630

I'm using positively Old Testament hardware for the beta build. 3rd gen 2.2GH i7 from back when Moses led the children of Israel out of Egypt (bought this machine in 2013!). The machine has 8gb RAM (Because it can't handle more), but was upgraded to a speedy SSD several years ago, which was one of the best technology purchases I've ever made.

Back on May 2nd, I posted stats on the same machine under Windows 10 in a discussion about slow Logos performance. The specs at that time were:

Startup: 0.571 seconds
Showing Main Window 12.227

I just ran the numbers again under Windows 11 and received:

Startup: 0.469 Seconds
Showing Main Window 11.111

So not a big change, but this is still beta code and will likely gain even more efficiencies at release. General operation of Logos feels reasonably responsive in all the testing I've done.

Microsoft patched the registry so my last post doesn't work anymore. However, I am running Windows 11 on a Dell Optiplex 3020 i5-4570 4 cores with 8gb of ram. It has TMP 1.2 so I guess they let me install it because TMP 1.2 was listed as the soft floor. I am hoping it will be able to run the release as well. This PC is not slow may be old but it runs nicely. My other two machines will have to stay with 10 or maybe switch to Linux. I will replace one of them with a Windows 11 machine more than likely. I am waiting for 11 to come out instead of trying to guess what Acer or Dell has TMP 2.0 etc.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1172599#Comment_1172599

Looks like Windows 11 will probably be a bump free update for Logos. They said there might be some little cross Win 10/11 compatibility things developers will have to contend with but whatever they are working on currently should be supported when Windows 11 arrives.

Maybe some jazzed up interface things going forward. Sounds pretty good.

This is my guess too. Logos seems to use standard guidelines in programming. I look forward to it, with some professional caution.

Now when I am back in my log cabin I checked my laptop. I bought the laptop in the last half of 2017. The checks show that, it has TPM2.0 and the compatibility check app showed it is ready for Windows 11. Normally my hardware is good when bought but it becomes some versions old in a couple of years.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1172962#Comment_1172962

I've been running Logos on a 10 yr old HP with 8GB, and a 1TB SSD that I installed about a year ago. Very happy with start up and performance. I'll stay on Windows 10 for another 4 years and purchase a new machine then, If I'm still alive and lucid. Next machine will have 2 monitors.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1173017#Comment_1173017

I've been running Logos on a 10 yr old HP with 8GB, and a 1TB SSD that I installed about a year ago. Very happy with start up and performance. I'll stay on Windows 10 for another 4 years and purchase a new machine then, If I'm still alive and lucid. Next machine will have 2 monitors.

I hope since I can run Windows 11 DEV on my Dell Optiplex which has an i5-4570 and TPM 1.2 it can run the final. I have seen a video where if it a DIY computer you will be able to use TMP 1.2 where OEM makers Dell, HP, etc you need TMP 2.0. I can't see how they can have two different standards. DIY means you build it.

It is smart to wait until Windows 11 is out. I have never seen a computer maker etc list TPM as a selling point. So how is an avg user and not a major geek suppose to know which computer has TPM and which version? AMD calls it FTPM and other OEM's (computer makers) call it something else so that's another issue. The location in bios is not clear either. I consider myself someone that knows tech. I am not an expert, but I do help people and know my way around streaming devices, computers, android phones, etc. I have never heard of TPM just researching that since Windows 11 was announced.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1173096#Comment_1173096

I have never seen a computer maker etc list TPM as a selling point. So how is an avg user and not a major geek suppose to know which computer has TPM and which version? AMD calls it FTPM and other OEM's (computer makers) call it something else so that's another issue. The location in bios is not clear either. I consider myself someone that knows tech. I am not an expert, but I do help people and know my way around streaming devices, computers, android phones, etc. I have never heard of TPM just researching that since Windows 11 was announced.

I think the very point is that they expect the average user to just buy a new PC. Requiring TPM 2.0 and not 1.2 along with the arbitrary processor generation cut-off (my processor has TPM 2.0 but is 6th generation so I don't meet the requirements for reasons unstated) doesn't make much sense to me unless the point is to help out OEMs by stimulating new PC sales. To my knowledge (and I've been looking) Microsoft has given no technical reason for why they won't allow pre-8th gen processors to run Window 11 (though they're letting 7th gen processors run the developer build to help them with testing).

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1173103#Comment_1173103

I was watching an expert Paul Thurott who writes about Microsoft and their products. He does a 10-15 min show every day on Youtube anyway he said They wanted TPM 2.0 in Vista and since no one wanted Vista they walked back a lot of stuff.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1173103#Comment_1173103

I think the very point is that they expect the average user to just buy a new PC. Requiring TPM 2.0 and not 1.2 along with the arbitrary processor generation cut-off (my processor has TPM 2.0 but is 6th generation so I don't meet the requirements for reasons unstated) doesn't make much sense to me unless the point is to help out OEMs by stimulating new PC sales.

And, as the article MJ suggested notes, you don't need TPM 2.0 anyway.

read Why Windows 11 is forcing everyone to use TPM chips (msn.com) before panicking ... there is a fair chance your setup is fine.

Microsoft does not require TPM 2.0 to run Windows 11. Microsoft requires TPM 1.2 to run Windows 11. Microsoft requires that new devices sold with Windows 11 already on them have TPM 2.0.

Microsoft doesn't require 8th gen or newer Intel chips for a device to run Windows 11, either.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1173213#Comment_1173213

Microsoft does not require TPM 2.0 to run Windows 11. Microsoft requires TPM 1.2 to run Windows 11. Microsoft requires that new devices sold with Windows 11 already on them have TPM 2.0.

Microsoft removed TMP 1.2 from the documents and also they did mention 8 gen only but now seem to be walking that back. My chip is not listed i5-4570 and I have TMP 1.2 and it runs the dev build from Windows Insider fine but no word on if It will be able to run the final in the fall or holiday season when it is released. I would say a lot of low-income people like me may be left out. Someone gave me a Dell Optiplex 6 months ago if it wasn't for that I would not be able to run Windows 11 at all.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1173213#Comment_1173213

Microsoft does not require TPM 2.0 to run Windows 11. Microsoft requires TPM 1.2 to run Windows 11. Microsoft requires that new devices sold with Windows 11 already on them have TPM 2.0.

Microsoft doesn't require 8th gen or newer Intel chips for a device to run Windows 11, either.

I'm just going by what's on their website. If you click on the compatible processors link, all of the Intel Core processors listed are 8th gen and later.

Here's the Windows Insider blog post where they discuss the system requirements and their decision to allow 7th gen processors to install the Developer build for testing purposes (while not yet updating the official system requirements for the final release).

Some key excerpts:

"The intention of today’s post is to acknowledge and clarify the confusion caused by our PC Health Check tool, share more details as to why we updated the system requirements for Windows 11 and set the path for how we will learn and adjust. Below you will find changes we are making based on that feedback, including ensuring we have the ability for Windows Insiders to install Windows 11 on 7th generation processors to give us more data about performance and security, updating our PC Health check app to provide more clarity, and committing to more technical detail on the principles behind our decisions." ...

... "Using the principles above, we are confident that devices running on Intel 8th generation processors and AMD Zen 2 as well as Qualcomm 7 and 8 Series will meet our principles around security and reliability and minimum system requirements for Windows 11. As we release to Windows Insiders and partner with our OEMs, we will test to identify devices running on Intel 7th generation and AMD Zen 1 that may meet our principles. We’re committed to sharing updates with you on the results of our testing over time, as well as sharing additional technical blogs."

As of now, I don't see any more up-to-date info on Microsoft's website than this. If you have more updated info, please share the links. But according to their website, their current system requirements are TPM 2.0 and 8th gen or later Intel and equivalent processors, while they are currently allowing 7th gen processors to install the Developer build to test and decide if some 7th gen processors may also be compatible. The problem for me is they haven't given any good reasons why they don't think 6th gen or earlier processors that have TPM 2.0, 2 cores, and are 1GHz or faster won't meet their requirements around "security, reliability, compatibility, video conferencing, multitasking, playing, creating, building, learning and more." So the processor generation cut-off seems arbitrary.

They're even suggesting that people buy new PCs right on their website in the system requirements:

This seems like what the processor gen cut-off is really about, call me cynical (and a former corporate financial analyst).

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1173223#Comment_1173223

I guessing my is 4th gen i5-4570 because all the 8th gen are i5-8xxx. I heard they are going to let 7th gen in.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1173223#Comment_1173223

I'm just going by what's on their website.

As Randall noted, they recently changed their documentation to require TPM 2.0 rather than allowing 1.2.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1173213#Comment_1173213

Microsoft does not require TPM 2.0 to run Windows 11. Microsoft requires TPM 1.2 to run Windows 11. Microsoft requires that new devices sold with Windows 11 already on them have TPM 2.0.

Microsoft doesn't require 8th gen or newer Intel chips for a device to run Windows 11, either.

Just because I and other can run the Dev version from Windows insider don't mean anything. I did get a message about my Optiplex but it installed Windows 11 anyway. Microsoft hasn't locked down Windows 11 yet. Once they lock it down you and I among millions of others may be out of luck. Some folks are stuck with the first version of Windows 10 cause they change some stuff that locked them out of updating. Windows 10 is not bad. Another thing I heard only Windows 10 users get the free upgrade. So if you are on 7, 8 etc you need to upgrade to 10 get the digital license then install 11.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1173256#Comment_1173256

I'm just going by what's on their website.

As Randall noted, they recently changed their documentation to require TPM 2.0 rather than allowing 1.2.

I am aware that Microsoft changed their website to remove the soft floor TPM 2.0 / hard floor TPM 1.2 distinction and soley listed TPM 2.0 as the minimum requirement. I'm not sure what your point is though. My point was about what the current requirements are.

The change seems to support my point, if Windows 11 can run TPM 1.2, why are they requiring 2.0? What does 2.0 give you that 1.2 doesn't?

Everything seems to be aimed at confusing the average user and herding them into buying new PCs. As Randall said, the average user won't be aware of TPM or know what to do about that. As a result they'll most likely just buy a new PC like Microsoft is recommending on their website.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1173296#Comment_1173296

buy a new PC like Microsoft is recommending on their website.

I can't find this; do you have a link?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1173300#Comment_1173300

buy a new PC like Microsoft is recommending on their website.

I can't find this; do you have a link?

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-11-specifications

Look at the first paragraph under specifications. I screenshot this in my previous post, but here's the quote:

"If your device does not meet these requirements, you may not be able to install Windows 11 on your device and might want to consider purchasing a new PC."

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1173296#Comment_1173296

[quote]

I am aware that Microsoft changed their website to remove the soft floor TPM 2.0 / hard floor TPM 1.2 distinction and soley listed TPM 2.0 as the minimum requirement. I'm not sure what your point is though. My point was about what the current requirements are.

The change seems to support my point, if Windows 11 can run TPM 1.2, why are they requiring 2.0? What does 2.0 give you that 1.2 doesn't?

My understanding and please correct me if I am wrong. TMP 1.2 is software related where TMP 2.0 is hardware base. It is built in to the cpu or a chip on your board. If this is all about security then hardware beats software. I am testing Windows 11 on a 4th gen i5 with TMP 1.2 but when release I will more likely need to go back to 10 or get a new machine. I didn't hack it Windows insider allowed it to install.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1173366#Comment_1173366

[quote]

I am aware that Microsoft changed their website to remove the soft floor TPM 2.0 / hard floor TPM 1.2 distinction and soley listed TPM 2.0 as the minimum requirement. I'm not sure what your point is though. My point was about what the current requirements are.

The change seems to support my point, if Windows 11 can run TPM 1.2, why are they requiring 2.0? What does 2.0 give you that 1.2 doesn't?

My understanding and please correct me if I am wrong. TMP 1.2 is software related where TMP 2.0 is hardware base. It is built in to the cpu or a chip on your board. If this is all about security then hardware beats software. I am testing Windows 11 on a 4th gen i5 with TMP 1.2 but when release I will more likely need to go back to 10 or get a new machine. I didn't hack it Windows insider allowed it to install.

I'm certainly not the expert on TPM but based on what I've read so far I don't think that's the difference. I think they can both either be software or hardware related, but that Microsoft began requiring OEMs to ship PCs with the hardware method because it's more secure. The problem is that the module may or may not be enabled on people's PCs. Most people won't need to buy a TPM chip but just need to go into their bios and enable the module they already have.

I think Microsoft wants everyone to have the latest version (2.0) and have it enabled for increased security (if you assume that a higher version number equals more security than a lower version number). But that was my original question: if 1.2 was the hard floor originally, why was the hard floor later changed to 2.0? Why did 1.2 magically become inadequate?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1173382#Comment_1173382

TPM 1.2 was the soft floor and 2.0 was the hard floor. Then after the backlash of the upgrade tool and TPM they removed the soft floor and just left 2.0 in place.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1173382#Comment_1173382

My understanding and please correct me if I am wrong. TMP 1.2 is software related where TMP 2.0 is hardware base. It is built in to the cpu or a chip on your board.

Both are hardware based, either via a separate chip (typically older systems) or supported by integration of a TPM into the CPU itself (Newer systems). If you are bored and really want to get lost in the weeds, here is an article from Dell discussing the differences between 1.2 and 2.0.

https://www.dell.com/support/kbdoc/en-us/000131631/tpm-1-2-vs-2-0-features

Microsoft's reasons for the requirement are definitely security based, but their communication thus far has left much to be desired.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1173435#Comment_1173435

Both are hardware based, either via a separate chip (typically older systems) or supported by integration of a TPM into the CPU itself (Newer systems). If you are bored and really want to get lost in the weeds, here is an article from Dell discussing the differences between 1.2 and 2.0.

https://www.dell.com/support/kbdoc/en-us/000131631/tpm-1-2-vs-2-0-features

Microsoft's reasons for the requirement are definitely security based, but their communication thus far has left much to be desired.

I think TMP 1.2. is still software base on this

How is Discrete TPM 2.0 different from a firmware TPM (fTPM)?

A firmware-based TPM (fTPM) is a TPM that operates using the resources and context of a multi-function/feature compute device (such as an SoC, CPU, or other similar compute environment).

A discrete TPM is implemented as an isolated, separate function/feature chip, with all necessary compute resources contained within the discrete physical chip package. A discrete TPM has full control of dedicated internal resources (such as volatile memory, non-volatile memory, and cryptographic logic), and it is the only function accessing and utilizing those resources.

A firmware based TPM does not have its own dedicated storage. It relies on OS and platform services to provide it access to storage within the platform. One of the implications of not having dedicated storage involves the presence of an Endorsement Key (EK) certificate. Discrete TPM devices can be delivered by the TPM manufacturer to the platform manufacturer with an EK certificate installed in the TPM storage for the TPM Endorsement Key. This is not possible with a firmware TPM. Firmware TPM vendors make certificates available to end users through manufacturer specific process. To acquire the EK certificate for a system, platform owners need to contact the chipset/CPU vendor for that platform

Additionally, a TCG Certified discrete TPM is required to meet compliance and security requirements including hardening of the chip and its internal resources similar to smart cards. TCG compliance verifies the TPM correctly implements the TCG specifications. The hardening required by TCG certification allows a Certified discrete TPM to protect itself against more complicated physical attacks.

Firmware is software and it only mentions 2.0 being different. So This leads me to believe TMP 1.2 is software. Firmware is software it tells your computer hardware what to do. That may be simple but without it your computer would be useless...

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1173570#Comment_1173570

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1173570#Comment_1173570

I think TMP 1.2. is still software base on this

You're confusing software control and storage of the keys in the firmware with pure software functionality. TPM 1.2 could be a separate (discrete) chip or an integrated function of the chipset/CPU and firmware. One of my desktops had a separate 1.2 TPM chip that I added several years ago (you can easily buy them from Amazon) for drive encryption. There are many integrated features of the CPU/chipset which are configured in the firmware (such as virtualization) but they still have hardware components that require support built into the CPU/chipset. The firmware only stores the keys (hence why it says firmware TPMs don't have dedicated storage). While the firmware TPN does not have its own storage for the encryption keys as stated in the Dell article, the TPN functionality still relies on the integrated hardware capabilities that are only available in CPUs with an integrated Trusted Execution Function. If this was purely a software feature, a simple firmware update would allow every PC to have TPM functionality, which is definitely not the case. The following article explains the 3 types of TPN. The firmware solution requires a newer CPU that contains an integrated Trusted execution mode built into it or the supporting chipset.

Discrete, Integrated or Firmware TPM?

There are three implementation options for TPMs:

Discrete TPM chip as a separate component in its own semiconductor package
Integrated TPM solution, using dedicated hardware integrated into one or more semiconductor packages alongside, but logically separate from, other components
Firmware TPM solution, running the TPM in firmware in a Trusted Execution mode of a general purpose computation unit

Windows uses any compatible TPM in the same way. Microsoft does not take a position on which way a TPM should be implemented and there is a wide ecosystem of available TPM solutions which should suit all needs.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security/information-protection/tpm/tpm-recommendations

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1173582#Comment_1173582

Really doesn't matter looks like if I want 11 I need a new machine either way. LOL

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1173588#Comment_1173588

True, that!

J. Remington Bowling

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1173588#Comment_1173588

Really doesn't matter looks like if I want 11 I need a new machine either way. LOL

I haven't bothered to read through all the pages in this thread, so maybe you've already ruled this out, but check your bios settings. On some computers the feature may be available but off by default.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1174384#Comment_1174384

Really doesn't matter looks like if I want 11 I need a new machine either way. LOL

I haven't bothered to read through all the pages in this thread, so maybe you've already ruled this out, but check your bios settings. On some computers the feature may be available but off by default.

I have a 4th gen that runs the DEV of Windows 11. When they lock it down you will only be able to have a 7th or 8th gen as min. They are considering 7th gen. Not sure what that equal to in AMD.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1174446#Comment_1174446

But my 3rd gen is right out!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1174475#Comment_1174475

But my 3rd gen is right out!

Personally, I think if you have at least TMP 1.2 regardless of what chip you should be able to run Windows 11. I did look on Amazon under $800 you can get a dell desktop or all-in-one with 10th gen. It doesn't state what TMP but I would guess it would have 2.0. I am thinking if they give a 4th stimulus I am going to buy a new PC. I am not a gamer so an all-in-one would be nice with at least a 512gb SSD. All I do is surf the net for the most part. The only programs I run is Logos and Quicken.

The only issue I have on my i5-4570 Dell Optiplex with Windows !! is the face I have to enable virus & threat protection when I restart my computer. No idea why it will not stay enabled. However when I enable it no issues until I need to restart again.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1174491#Comment_1174491

We'll just have to see how much they budge, if at all. I do understand that more recent processors have additional security features and with security growing ever more important with ransomware and such they may end up hold to there original plans. We'll see.

I have the same Windows 11 virus protection issue. I've read others do as well, so it appears to just be a beta quirk that should be resolved in a future build.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1174539#Comment_1174539

If you perfer Linux Mint or whatever but want to run Logos or some other Windows program that Wine has issues with try Virtualbox.

I was unable to sleep last night. My mind keeps me awake sometimes. I found a video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWmD8obq4eQ

This explains how to install Windows 10 in a Virtualbox or (virtual Machine) so when you need full Logos you can access it. The web app is awesome but limited.

It works great I use Linux Mint now on all my machine. Make sure you have 4 cores. My Dell laptop is a 2 core machine works ok but there was a slight delay using Windows 10 in a VB. My Dell Optiplex 4 core i5 it is like using Windows normally. No delays.

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