Using Dead Sea Scrolls

Dear Folk,

How do I see the Dead Sea Scroll ( biblical and non-biblical) refs. for a Hebrew word in a Bible Word Study?

One resource video in the Logos Help Center on the DSS showed clicking on a Heb. word generated a Bible Word Study, and at the bottom, under Textual Searches it listed Hebrew Bible, DSS biblical, and DSS non-biblical as choices. When I tried it using Logos 9 Logos Bible Software 9.6 SR-2
9.6.0.0024, I only had Hebrew Bible as a choice. I recently bought the Dead Sea Scrolls Bible and the Dead Sea Scrolls: a New Translation.
Do I need to do something to get the Bible Word Study to offer me the DSS choices, or does current Logos version access them some other way?

Thanks,

Mike

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Graham Criddle

Do I need to do something to get the Bible Word Study to offer me the DSS choices

It should work depending on the word you are studying

Simon’s Brother

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1176837#Comment_1176837

It does not seem to work for me either.

In addition to what Michael mentioned I own below plus others (English translations and Lexham DSS interlinear)

I follow the training video a the bottom of this page and get no textual search results of DSS so would be interested too in how to get to this to work.

How to Study the Dead Sea Scrolls (logos.com)

Graham Criddle

Do I need to do something to get the Bible Word Study to offer me the DSS choices

I believe you need https://www.logos.com/product/28051/biblical-dead-sea-scrolls for the biblical scrolls and and https://www.logos.com/product/4242/qumran-sectarian-manuscripts for the sectarian ones (I can't verify the second of those as I don't have that resource)

But please see my comments to Disciple II below

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1176841#Comment_1176841

I follow the training video a the bottom of this page and get no textual search results of DSS so would be interested too in how to get to this to work.

That is very strange - I would have expected owning the Biblical Dead Sea Scrolls would have given you that set of results. When I follow the steps in the video I get the same results as shown there (apart from the sectarian scrolls which I don't own)

It's possible there's some other "linking resource" required to make this work but I don't know what that might be.

Can you post a screenshot showing what you see?

DMB

I only had Hebrew Bible as a choice. I recently bought the Dead Sea Scrolls Bible and the Dead Sea Scrolls: a New Translation

As Graham notes, either Abegg's Sectarian, the Hebrew Bible interlinear, or the DSS Biblical Scrolls are needed, due to the availability of matching lemma data in each. The DSS Study Edition doesn't have lemma data. And the more recent Samaritan similarly doesn't include lemma data.

Not sure why, but when the DSS Biblical Interlinear was introduced (and includes lemma data), BWS didn't pick it up. That's L7 ... don't know about L9.

The other 'confuser' is making sure a lemma is hebrew vs aramaic, and indeed is in the respective resource.

Michael A. Mnich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1176876#Comment_1176876

Dear Folk,

If I'm understanding, the DSS resources I have can't give hebrew word stats like on the learning video --- correct?

I own: The Dead Sea Scrolls Bible by Abegg, Flint, and Ulrich, 1999, HarperCollins and

The Dead Sea Scrolls a New Translation, by Wise, Abegg, and Cook, 2005, HarperCollins

How can I use these resources? Are they just for reading; not for research?

If I'm reading in a Bible translation, and come across a word I want to see how it's used in the DSS Bible or non-biblical fragments, how do I accomplish that with these resources? Particularly, with the non-biblical fragments, how would I even find where that Hebrew word is used in any of the hundreds of fragment texts? Theoretically, the DSS Bible should be by verse, so I can kind of guess how they translated a particular word, but I'm still comparing what a Hebrew word in the Bible is with what a translator thought; and it might not even be the exact same word in the DSS.

If I can figure how to use these resources, I want to keep them, but if not, I'm thinking I should consider a refund....

Also, in the DSS resources I have, if I select a word and attempt a search of the entire resource, how do I do that?

When I tried jumping into the middle of the resource and selecting a word, the search box only gives me a search for that fragment or book. If I get several "hits", it only shows one, and I have to scroll and scroll, and scroll to find the next "hit". What key do I push etc. to toggle from hit to hit?

Thanks for the help,

Mike

Michael A. Mnich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1176900#Comment_1176900

Dear Folk,

I looking at the Dead Sea Scrolls Bible it says it's a logos research edition, so seems it should show in a word study.

The Dead Sea Scrolls a New Translation (the non-biblical fragments) says it is a monograph.

Mike

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1176900#Comment_1176900

If I'm understanding, the DSS resources I have can't give hebrew word stats like on the learning video --- correct?

Correct

If I'm reading in a Bible translation, and come across a word I want to see how it's used in the DSS Bible or non-biblical fragments, how do I accomplish that with these resources?

When you say "come across a word" do you mean an English word and you want to see how the Hebrew word behind it was used in the DSS Bible - or something different?

I'm afraid that isn't possible with the resources you have as they are really English translations and don't have the associated Hebrew text linked to them.

Also, in the DSS resources I have, if I select a word and attempt a search of the entire resource, how do I do that?

When I tried jumping into the middle of the resource and selecting a word, the search box only gives me a search for that fragment or book. If I get several "hits", it only shows one, and I have to scroll and scroll, and scroll to find the next "hit". What key do I push etc. to toggle from hit to hit?

I'm not sure exactly how you are running your search - but my guess is you did something like right-click, select the word and run a Bible search. That produces a separate search window showing all the results as well as highlighting them in the resource.

If you then open the dropdown menu at the top right and select the option Search Result then using the up/down arrows to the right of that menu will move you from one result to another.

If I have misunderstood anything please let me know.

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1176902#Comment_1176902

I looking at the Dead Sea Scrolls Bible it says it's a logos research edition, so seems it should show in a word study.

I'm afraid that being a research edition isn't enough - for it to show results in the section of the word study guide we were discussing earlier it needs to include a reverse interlinear (with the English words tagged with the underlying original language words) and this doesn't have that.

DMB

Do I need to do something to get the Bible Word Study to offer me the DSS choices

The Logos How-To has a nice set of summaries:

https://www.logos.com/how-to?ssi=0

Which include:

https://www.logos.com/how-to/study-the-dead-sea-scrolls

In general, for Logos resources, Sectarian doesn't have Biblical, and visa versa. They're offered separately.

Ken McGuire

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1176900#Comment_1176900

If I'm understanding, the DSS resources I have can't give hebrew word stats like on the learning video --- correct?

Since to the best of my knowledge, the resources you have are English only, they cannot be used in any hebrew reports.

You can use the DSS Bible in the Logos Translation Comparison report, which gives some evidence that there may be a text critical issue involving the DSS compared with the MT. But without going to the original languages, often the best you can do is to see that there is an issue there. You don't get enough information to actually understand and weigh the issue. And besides just being a book you can read, the tagging of DSS, a New Translation will let it be a destination link for every book in your library that links to the DSS datatype, so, for example, when there is a link to the Community Rule of 1QS, you can mouse over and read it in context.

But if you are wanting to study the DSS at the word level, you want one of the Logos resources that both has the original languages, and also has broken it down with gramatical tagging - and the resources you list don't do that.

Instead you need https://www.logos.com/product/5961/qumran-biblical-dead-sea-scrolls-database for biblical texts, and I believe you would need https://www.logos.com/product/4242/qumran-sectarian-manuscripts for the non-biblical material.

For more information, look at https://www.logos.com/how-to/study-the-dead-sea-scrolls

Michael A. Mnich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1176920#Comment_1176920

Dear Folk,

Thanks for the info. It is clear that my 2 DSS resources can not help with Hebrew word searches.

How can I use these 2 resources, or should I just ask for a refund?

Thanks,

Mike

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1176934#Comment_1176934

How can I use these 2 resources, or should I just ask for a refund?

Well, it depends on you. I'm guessing you're looking at hebrew usage, and early OT manuscripts (vs the MT). So, you really do need the tagged hebrew, whether Biblical, non-Biblical, or both. But that said, the next need, is translational opinion .... which is what you currently have.

If indeed, the DSS is your goal, then I'd buy the 2 tagged resources, keeping what you have. But if DSS is more a curiousity, then what you have is quite good (authors, professional, usable).

Frankly, DSS Biblical largely speaks to the LXX/Samaritan question. Not much impact on modern-day OTs. Non-Biblical is hugely arguable, concerning 2nd Temple theological development (ergo, translation as the discussion).

Simon’s Brother

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1176920#Comment_1176920

I have the databases etc you suggest and get no results when I follow the training video

If I'm understanding, the DSS resources I have can't give hebrew word stats like on the learning video --- correct?

Since to the best of my knowledge, the resources you have are English only, they cannot be used in any hebrew reports.

You can use the DSS Bible in the Logos Translation Comparison report, which gives some evidence that there may be a text critical issue involving the DSS compared with the MT. But without going to the original languages, often the best you can do is to see that there is an issue there. You don't get enough information to actually understand and weigh the issue. And besides just being a book you can read, the tagging of DSS, a New Translation will let it be a destination link for every book in your library that links to the DSS datatype, so, for example, when there is a link to the Community Rule of 1QS, you can mouse over and read it in context.

But if you are wanting to study the DSS at the word level, you want one of the Logos resources that both has the original languages, and also has broken it down with gramatical tagging - and the resources you list don't do that.

Instead you need https://www.logos.com/product/5961/qumran-biblical-dead-sea-scrolls-database for biblical texts, and I believe you would need https://www.logos.com/product/4242/qumran-sectarian-manuscripts for the non-biblical material.

For more information, look at https://www.logos.com/how-to/study-the-dead-sea-scrolls

David Paul

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1176876#Comment_1176876

The DSS Study Edition doesn't have lemma data.

Will paradoxes never cease?!?!

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1176968#Comment_1176968

The DSS Study Edition doesn't have lemma data.

Will paradoxes never cease?!?!

Well, maybe. Yesterday, I was trying to figure out what Faithlife actually sells (similar to Disciple II's frustration). And from the product pages of each, it's pretty impossible. I played an advert video for the DSS Biblical database .... and it demonstrates lemma-handling for DSS-SE .... or at least seems to. Who knows?

Faithlife has always been reluctant to sell its prowess (aka 'communicating'), instead concentrating on reduced Cadellac pricing.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1176973#Comment_1176973

The series "Biblical Dead Sea Scrolls" is clearly marked with lemma and morphological data. It also has an index tying it to the Dead Sea Scrolls Study Edition. The purchasable product providing the data is Qumran Biblical Dead Sea Scrolls Database | Logos Bible Software

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1176985#Comment_1176985

The series "Biblical Dead Sea Scrolls" is clearly marked with lemma and morphological data. It also has an index tying it to the Dead Sea Scrolls Study Edition. The purchasable product providing the data is Qumran Biblical Dead Sea Scrolls Database | Logos Bible Software

No doubt the Qumran Biblical is tagged ... from the start, years back. The question was whether DSS-SE (sectarian, not Biblical) was subsequently tagged? In the above discussions, it doesn't show in BWS's and it didn't at introduction.