Need Some Basic Searching Assistance
I'm trying to search a Collection I've made of Theology Resources. Trying to find information within that Collection that would show up either in an article title or subtitle and then see if a specific verse(s) is referenced within those articles.
I can query the Theology Collection Resources with the following and get significant results:
Search All Text in All Passages in Theology for heading:baptism -> yields193 results in 189 articles in 29 resources
-or-
Search Heading Text; Large Text in All Passages in Theology for baptism -> yields 228 results in 221 articles in 38 resources
But, if I want to narrow down the results further and find just the Resources that contain a specific verse or verses, like Acts 2:38 I get 0 results. I've got a Resource that I'm using as my test that I know contains the text in the heading or large text and has the verse within the text of that article. I've checked the Search Fields of this Resource and it includes at least: Heading Text; Large Text; Surface Text.
I've used proximity operators NEAR, INTERSECTS, WITHIN x WORDS and end up with 0 results. I've placed the verse in angle brackets (<>) and without them thinking maybe I'd get an exact hit. In the following examples change PROXIMITY to any of the operators listed.
Example: Search All Text in All Passages in Theology for heading:baptism PROXIMITY <Acts 2:38>
Example: Search Heading Text; Large Text in All Passages in Theology for baptism PROXIMITY <Acts 2:38>
Tried all of these and get 0 results.
I've looked up definitions of NEAR and INTERSECTS and thought I understand them, but doesn't look like it. WITHIN seems pretty obvious.
I've also tried: Search All Text in All Passages in Theology for {Headword Baptism} -> yields 10 results in 10 articles in 4 resources, but doesn't include the test Resource.
What am I missing? Please advise.
Comments
-
I've looked up definitions of NEAR and INTERSECTS and thought I understand them, but doesn't look like it.
Select the All Text option near All Passages and try largetext:baptism NEAR <Act 2:38>
or headingtext:baptism NEAR <Act 2:38>
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
0 -
Search Heading Text; Large Text in All Passages in Theology for baptism PROXIMITY <Acts 2:38>
The problem here is that <Acts 2:38> also has to be part of the heading/large text.
largetext:baptism NEAR <Act 2:38> restricts that search to "baptism" and <Acts 2:38> can be anywhere (provided you select the All Text option near All Passages).
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
0 -
Commentary search idea is:
([field heading,largetext,surface] baptism) WITHIN {Milestone <ac2.38>}
Keep Smiling [:)]
0 -
Dave,
"The problem here is that <Acts 2:38> also has to be part of the heading/large text."
That must be the answer for the lack of results when adding the verse to the search criteria. But I thought proximity operators would take care of surrounding text to either the heading or largetext. But apparently not.
0 -
If I break down the search criteria in chunks, I get...
([field heading,largetext,surface] baptism) yields > 6,000 results, makes sense because this finds every location baptism is used in the collection
([field heading,largetext,surface] baptism) WITHIN {Milestone <ac2.38>} yields 0 results
But my test resource does have heading/largetext results for baptism and it shows the verse within the article associated with the heading. Is the 0 results a function of what Dave mentioned above that the verse would be an AND to each of the fields? Any proximity operator I place between the field portion and Milestone portion ends up with 0 results.
If I parse your suggestion into: ([field heading,largetext] baptism) ([field surface] baptism <Acts 2:38>) it yields 695 results in 28 articles in 16 resources. This is a very manageable result, but more importantly is brings up the resource that I know has the desired information.
I think I understand this search model as:
([field heading,largetext] baptism) will search heading/largetext and yield all the resources that contain the search word, pretty straight forward.
Then there is an implied AND to portion of the search, by using ([field surface] <Acts 2:38>) this is asking the search provide only the results that have baptism in the heading/largetext and contain Acts 2:38 in the surface text. But when look into the results, it is not just articles associated with the heading/largetext and only the verse, but also hits with just the heading/largetext. If I put in a proximity operator, thinking I'm asking for give me surface text results within some range of the heading/largetext, but apparently that is not it.
Obviously I'm not understanding the syntax to yield the results, even though I know they exist in the resources.
I don't understand why this or your suggestion did not work, any thoughts?
0 -
If I parse your suggestion into: ([field heading,largetext] baptism) ([field surface] baptism <Acts 2:38>)
Try removing baptism from the second search term:
([field heading,largetext] baptism ) ([field surface] <Acts 2:38>)
0 -
Dave,
"The problem here is that <Acts 2:38> also has to be part of the heading/large text."
That must be the answer for the lack of results when adding the verse to the search criteria. But I thought proximity operators would take care of surrounding text to either the heading or largetext. But apparently not.
When you indicate that the search terms are to be in a certain field, proximity dictates whether you get a result when all the terms are in that field.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
0 -
But when look into the results, it is not just articles associated with the heading/largetext and only the verse, but also hits with just the heading/largetext
If we are searching with ([field heading,largetext] baptism) ([field surface] <Acts 2:38>) the results must contain <Acts 2:38>, but it could be a considerable distance from baptism (you might have to scroll several pages) so use the Locator bar:-
.Set the display to "Search Result" and use the down arrow to find the next result (Acts 2:38 is on page 314!).
The word "baptism" occurs several times on this page, but the result in the heading is all you need.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
0 -
Graham,
That worked. My min was saying that I needed both those 2 terms as AND in the surface text. But nope, the verse coupled with the heading fields worked just fine. I'm thinking is this becomes one of my search templates for finding heading along with other contents within an article.
Dave,
Thanks for the clarity on where proximity operators actual do work. And your example supports what I'm after. I recognize that the surface text search could be anywhere in the article and not near the heading. I was tripped up when I scanned thru my results and didn't recognize what I was seeing. Having baptism in surface search yielded all the locations of where baptism occurred in the resource and where all the verse occurrences were and not necessarily their occurrences in relationship to the heading, i.e. within an article. So, by taking baptism out of the surface search, the items in the result report take me where the correct relationship occurs. Albeit as you point out the verse may be a page or so down, but it is there and that is what I was trying to accomplish.
Thanks all.
0 -
Commentary search idea is:
([field heading,largetext,surface] baptism) WITHIN {Milestone <ac2.38>}
Search can be modified to show field text color: (([field heading] baptism) WITHIN {Milestone <ac2.38>}) OR (([field largetext] baptism) WITHIN {Milestone <ac2.38>}) OR (([field surface] baptism) WITHIN {Milestone <ac2.38>})
Inverted Screen Shot
If I parse your suggestion into: ([field heading,largetext] baptism) ([field surface] baptism <Acts 2:38>)
Equivalent search is: ([field heading,largetext] baptism) AND ([field surface] baptism AND <Acts 2:38>)
Proximity refinement idea is: ([field heading,largetext] baptism) BEFORE ([field surface] baptism WITHIN 33 WORDS <Acts 2:38>)
Keep Smiling [:)]
0 -
KS4J, Thanks
My learning experience thru this search effort is understanding that the proximity operators work within the selected field and can't see outside of it. Your long hand examples really illuminate that constraint, once Dave brought that concept to light I can really see it now (no pun intended)
0 -
My learning experience thru this search effort is understanding that the proximity operators work within the selected field and can't see outside of it.
That analogy works ok if the search terms are expected to be in the same field! In practice, each search term has to be within its selected field before proximity can be applied e.g.
([field heading,largetext] baptism) NEAR ([field surface] <Acts 2:38>) ---> baptism has to be in its field and Acts 2:38 has to be in its field before NEAR is evaluated.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
0 -
Understand.
And that's why a search like: ([field heading,largetext] baptism) NEAR <Acts 2:38> would only produce results with "baptism" & "Acts 2:38" in the largetext of a resource or heading if there was any.
For me, this is a result of too many years just doing Bible searches in other Bible software and not really knowing what or where the criteria is being searched within the database.
Do you have any similar insights into INTERSECTS? I've read up on it and know it means overlaps, but haven't been able to get meaningful results in other searches.
Thanks again.
0 -
And that's why a search like: ([field heading,largetext] baptism) NEAR <Acts 2:38> would only produce results with "baptism" & "Acts 2:38" in the largetext of a resource or heading if there was any.
If you are searching as below, only baptism is constrained to a heading/largetext field
.Acts 2:38 can be anywhere and produce a result. It is immediately after the heading in the first result whilst Baptism is the only word in the heading of the second result.
Note that an option other than All Passages could constrain the results to a specific article e.g. "The Ordinances of the Church" (not actually possible for this resource, but you could constrain the results to Acts for a commentary, thus ignoring possible results in Romans or a part of the Commentary that is outside any bible book).
Do you have any similar insights into INTERSECTS? I've read up on it and know it means overlaps,
See the examples in https://wiki.logos.com/Search_HELP#Proximity
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
0 -
Thanks
Seems pretty clear, now. Will see how well I do next time.
0
