How do I create a Passage list that shows missing verses in the KJV vs. the Septuagint
How do I create a Passage list that shows missing verses in the KJV vs. the Septuagint.
For example many times in the Lexham English Septuagint there are extra verses usually labelled with letters, not numbers (ex. 6a, 14a, 14b, 14c...)
How could I create a list that just shows these "missing" verses?
Thanks in advance,
Machelle
Jesus was born of a VIRGIN, as it is written in the LXX, testified in the NT Matthew 1:23
Isaiah 7:14 (Brenton LXX En)
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How could I create a list that just shows these "missing" verses?
There is a problem, at least to me, in using the words "missing text" or "additional text" in that it states that the other is Perfect.
I prefer "No Corresponding Text" in the version with out the text. That does no make a judgement call on either text under study.
Have fun with the last few chapters of Exodus. Somebody's master scroll fell apart before it could be copied.
How could I create a list that just shows these "missing" verses?
There is a problem, at least to me, in using the words "missing text" or "additional text" in that it states that the other is Perfect.
I prefer "No Corresponding Text" in the version with out the text. That does no make a judgement call on either text under study.
Have fun with the last few chapters of Exodus. Somebody's master scroll fell apart before it could be copied.
Well, the text/verses I'm referring to are actually written in those ancient manuscripts, and since most modern translations do not follow that manuscript line, they are in fact "missing" some verses from the manuscripts.
Everyone should try to go back to the original manuscripts as much as possible, because many many times I have found that these "missing" verses clear up the context and meaning to the passages in which they correspond.
However, I'm not a Pastor leading a flock, so maybe a Pastor would want to handle that differently than me. It depends on who you are I guess. 
Jesus was born of a VIRGIN, as it is written in the LXX, testified in the NT Matthew 1:23
Isaiah 7:14 (Brenton LXX En)
Everyone should try to go back to the original manuscripts as much as possible
Hence David Ames comment! the original manuscripts no longer exist. We have various ancient copies in various traditions. Is one manuscript MISSING something that was original? Has another manuscript ADDED something that was not original? Some of the principles in Textual Criticism (attempting to establish what was original) include a general preference for the shorter and/or more difficult reading. The very idea that a text "clears up the context" is a suggestion that a later scribe added for that purpose.
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).
Everyone should try to go back to the original manuscripts as much as possibleHence David Ames comment! the original manuscripts no longer exist. We have various ancient copies in various traditions. Is one manuscript MISSING something that was original? Has another manuscript ADDED something that was not original? Some of the principles in Textual Criticism (attempting to establish what was original) include a general preference for the shorter and/or more difficult reading. The very idea that a text "clears up the context" is a suggestion that a later scribe added for that purpose.
The facts are that the Greek manuscripts are 1,000 yrs older than the Massoretic manuscripts. For the most part they are identical, but where the Massoretic has a confusing verse or passage (especially in Daniel), the Septuagint manuscripts have the missing words or verses that most definitely clear up the meaning. Having both manuscripts is good because they verify that the passages are true and correct, and it makes discernment of the true meaning much easier.
If one only uses the Massoretic you are indeed "missing" the context in multiple versions. It is also well known that the Massoretic has tried to eliminate the prophecies of Jesus Christ, hence why the KJV translators went with the Septuagint version many times, especially with Isaiah 7:14 "a virgin shall conceive" NOT "young woman" (check out the tanakh).
I think it would be a disservice to say they are not missing. Each person has the ability to choose which manuscripts they would like to adhere, we don't have to protect them from this view. They can conclude either way they choose. Like I said, most verses are identical, but where they differ brings things to light that could not be found elsewhere.
Jesus was born of a VIRGIN, as it is written in the LXX, testified in the NT Matthew 1:23
Isaiah 7:14 (Brenton LXX En)
There is a problem, at least to me, in using the words "missing text" or "additional text" in that it states that the other is Perfect.
Interesting. I see your point but I would not have assumed the "perfect aspect" unless I knew that one was assumed to be a copy of the other or at least close together in a chain of manuscripts. I would simply take missing/additional as a difference between the texts with one simply assigned the role of "base text" as is done in text comparison. You've made me aware of a potential miscommunication to avoid. Thanks - I will try to be more explicit.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
There is a problem, at least to me, in using the words "missing text" or "additional text" in that it states that the other is Perfect.
Well, are you saying the Holy Ghost inspired witnesses of the Lord got it wrong? And the usability of the hebrew was a late attestation (Jerome), and only because the latin went off the rails.
Smiling.
Are you dis-ing Vetus Latina BEFORE we get it in Logos. We want to encourage not discourage people to want it. [;)]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
Please give an example
Some translations give them regular verse numbers but an LES example:
[quote]
16 And Jobz lived after the misfortune one hundred and seventy years, and all the years he lived were two hundred and forty, and Joba saw his childrenb and the childrenc of his childrend to the fourth generation. 17 And Jobe died an old man and full of days.
17a And it is written that he shall rise again with the ones whom the Lord shall raise up. 17b This man is described by the Syriac book as dwelling in the land of Uzf on the borders of Edomg and Arabia. And his name before was Jobab.h 17c And, having taken an Arabian wife, he beget a son, whose name was Enan. And he himself had as father Zerah,i from of the descendantsj of Esau. And his mother was Bosorra, so that it made him fifth from Abraham.k
17d And these were the kings who were ruling in Edom, which country also he himself ruled: first, Bela,l the son of Beor, and the name of his city was Dinhabah.m And after Bela,n Jobab,o who was called Job.p And after this, Husham,q who was serving as leader from the country of Thaiman. And after this, Hadad,r son of Bered,s who destroyed Midiant in the field of Moab, and the name of his city was Avith.u 17e And the friends who came to him were Eliphaz,v of the descendantsw of Esau, king of the Temanites;x Bildad,y the sovereign of the Shuhites;z and Zophar,a the king of the Naamathites.b
Rick Brannan et al., eds., The Lexham English Septuagint (Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2012), Job 42:16–17e.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
Thanks MJ
And, Machelle, I don't see any way of searching for them so I can't see how to automatically create a Passage List of them.
Can't you do a "text comparison" search somehow? Maybe look for 100% differences?
Jesus was born of a VIRGIN, as it is written in the LXX, testified in the NT Matthew 1:23
Isaiah 7:14 (Brenton LXX En)
The TC idea would likely be easiest ... put the LXX-English first, an MT second, and then page thru. Watch for the disappearance of the MT. Not fun.
My even less fun idea was do a find on 0a, 1a, 2a, ... 9a. Only have to look for the 'a's ... 'b's can't happen without an 'a'.
Or just use a standard list, usually in an appendix.
I remember now, I did something like merging two passage lists to show the difference. It didn't really reveal the extra Septuagint verse, but it might if I could tweak it somehow.
EDIT:
It actually did work out lol! 6,720 vv different. Most of them are the "added" verses, some are just the different ones.
Jesus was born of a VIRGIN, as it is written in the LXX, testified in the NT Matthew 1:23
Isaiah 7:14 (Brenton LXX En)
How did you create the original Passage Lists?
Dave
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Windows 11 & Android 13
I actually went back and found the post that I learned how to do this from a kind gentlemen. from here : https://community.logos.com/forums/p/177832/1028084.aspx#1028084 hope that link works. He basically search for all the Hebrew text in the Bible (to get the entire Old Testament in the Search results) and then created a passage list from the search results.
Jesus was born of a VIRGIN, as it is written in the LXX, testified in the NT Matthew 1:23
Isaiah 7:14 (Brenton LXX En)
Ouch! Any solution had to take a long time, so I requested a shorter method.
Dave
===
Windows 11 & Android 13
I have a very fast computer so it worked very quickly. Just copy and paste the lines he typed (Hebrew for the KJV) and Greek for the LXX, but the translation has to have the original language morphology to do so.
Although, after I got the list, I just changed the translation to Brenton Sept and it worked !
Jesus was born of a VIRGIN, as it is written in the LXX, testified in the NT Matthew 1:23
Isaiah 7:14 (Brenton LXX En)