Bible Word Study missing numerous Greek and Hebrew words compared to Logos 3

I have to say while I have been impressed with the overall layout and many of the "bells and whistles" of Logos 4, I have been somewhat disappointed in some of the basics that seem to have been lost in translation of Logos 3 to 4

My latest issue seems to be with the lack of many Hebrew and Greek words in the Word Study section of Logos 4 that seemed to have simply disappeared from vs. 3. For example I can find the word εἶπον (say) but not εἶπεν (speak). In other cases it appears I can only find certain forms of a word but not others such as being able to find αὐτός but not αὐτόν.

Other frustrations include weird buggy items like cutting and pasting the word κἂν or καὶ in the word search box will produce a drop down list with several other words with my word fourth or fifth in the list, even though it's the exact same word I cut and pasted! Why isn't it first? The problem is if you cut paste and hit enter like the old days of Logos 3, it will give you a completely different selection, choosing the one first in the list instead of your word and sending you off in the completely wrong direction. I then go back and hunt down the drop down list for my word.

I was hoping for a full upgrade, now I find myself switching back and forth between Logos 3 and Logos 4 to get the old Bible Word Study features. It's rather disappointing. If I am missing something here please let me know, I would love to get this working properly.

Words that Logos 4 does not identify from just two verses that can all easily be found in Logos 3:

John 11: 14: αὐτοῖς ἀπέθανεν

John 11:15 διʼ ὑμᾶς πιστεύσητε οὐκ ἤμην ἄγωμεν αὐτόν

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Comments

Kevin Becker

My latest issue seems to be with the lack of many Hebrew and Greek words in the Word Study section of Logos 4 that seemed to have simply disappeared from vs. 3. For example I can find the word εἶπον (say) but not εἶπεν (speak). In other cases it appears I can only find certain forms of a word but not others such as being able to find αὐτός but not αὐτόν.

The Bible Word Study can only be run on lemmas. ειπεν is a form of ειπον and αυτος is the a lemma, not αυτον. When looking at a particular form a word you are looking at how its case, number, and gender or tense etc. is functioning in that context. It's not likely that looking at all instances of αυτον will be all that helpful.

MJ. Smith

I've confirmed the say/speak example and will note it in the bug reports for you. Kevin, I thought the lemma was λέγω so my bug report is likely wrong.

urloony

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/119569#Comment_119569

Yep, that's what I'm starting to realize now. Is this just an oversight or what? Logos 3 didn't have this limitation.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/119577#Comment_119577

Logos 3 didn't have this limitation.

L3 BWS worked differently in that it would tolerate a manuscript word in the text box and give you some results but if you perform BWS through the context menu it would always use the lemma. From the context menu in L4 you have to choose the lemma on the right hand side in order to see BWS as an option on the left side.

κἄν is interesting as it is a lemma only in Elzevir Textus Receptus 1642 so it will be accepted in the BWS text box but provide little information. You get slightly more info via the context menu in the bible!

Kevin Becker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/119569#Comment_119569

I've confirmed the say/speak example and will note it in the bug reports for you. Kevin, I thought the lemma was λέγω so my bug report is likely wrong.

ειπον and λεγω were technically different words however, at the time of the NT's writing the aorist ειπον is used instead of the original aorist form of λεγω so technically we are both right in that different lexicons/grammars would probably tell us both things (how that for linguistics?!). Referring to λεγω as lemma is probably considered more correct but Logos does use ειπον as lemma (at least in the ESV RI when I checked).

Damian McGrath

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/119608#Comment_119608

Referring to λεγω as lemma is probably considered more correct

It depends in part how you define "lemma". If lemma refers to the canonical or dictionary entry, then ειπον is the correct form for the "lemma" (note that both BDAG and LSJ contain dictionary entries for this word). In most NT Greek classes, they indicate that λεγω is the lemma (often with the rider that this is not technically correct - at least that was the case for me).

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/119615#Comment_119615

In most NT Greek classes, they indicate that λεγω is the lemma (often with the rider that this is not technically correct - at least that was the case for me).

Well, given that my Greek is a summer distance-learning course including both Greek and Hebrew plus a bit of self-taught Greek, I'll have to take your word for it.[:D]