Mormon Studies Collection (45 vols.)
Comments
-
Ben said:
"I am not looking for a long discussion/argument on this. Just a quick question."
It doesn't matter. What you're looking for is outside the scope of the forum and would inevitably lead to argument. I speak from long and weary experience. But call Mormons polytheists in our presence, and you lose credibility instantly as someone who has any real familiarity or understanding.
I was only asking what you call it with no plans to reply except to thank you. I am not trying to change your definition or beliefs. But if you don't have a name for it or don't know what you would call it, I understand. Since polytheism, from a scientific definition being the closest definition I can find, was offensive to you, I wanted to know how you would refer to it so I could accurately refer to using a LDS definition.
0 -
Just out of curiosity, when the resources changed, did the total need to product this change as well? Did the % complete go up?
0 -
Jeffrey Visser said:
Since polytheism, from a scientific definition being the closest definition I can
Okay, you have me totally confused by the concept of a scientific definition of polytheism. Ben did not say he did not have a term for it - only that it is not "polytheism." Much of the problem is that Western translators used "god" for many types of spiritual beings quite unlike our concept of "God"; this is compounded by the lack of terminology in general usage. The religious study's semantic spectrum is not just monotheism and polytheism, there is also henotheism, atheism, adevism, monolatry . . .Study these terms and you can discover where LDS falls on the spectrum
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
MJ. Smith said:
Ben did not say he did not have a term for it - only that it is not "polytheism." Much of the problem is that Western translators used "god" for many types of spiritual being quite unlike our concept of "God"; this is compounded by the lack of terminology in general usage. The religious study's semantic spectrum is not just monotheism and polytheism, there is also henotheism, atheism, adevism, monolatry . . .Study these terms and you can discover where LDS falls on the spectrum
Thank you, that is what I was looking for. Henotheism and monolarty are subsets of polytheism (belief in or worship of more than one god) and further clarify one's view of other religions. Atheism and adevism are outside of polytheism.
I understand which one applies, but I am still interested in if Ben would agree that is the preferred term or if if he believes that is offensive as well.
0 -
a simple google will show you which term LDS uses.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
MJ. Smith said:
a simple google will show you which term LDS uses.
I'm surprised anyone still uses or trusts google. (Yes, this is tool related.
Have a great night!
0 -
Jeffrey Visser said:
I'm surprised anyone still uses or trusts google.
It's my best source of academic papers and links to academic associations. What matters is the quality of the work sifting through googls results
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
Yes. This forum is not for doctrinal discussion.
But, to be loyal to the truth, I must explain that Latter-day Saints are NOT polytheists. Polytheism would mean that they worship many gods, which is simply not true. Latter-day Saints ONLY worship Heavenly Father in the name of Jesus Christ. It is true that their belief includes what Paul of Tarsus mentioned in 1 Corinthians 8:5, but their practice fully adheres to what Paul explained in 1 Corinthians 8:6.
It is also true that the beliefs of the Latter-day Saints are not orthodox. The Latter-day Saints claim that their beliefs refer back to those of the Early Church and do not recognize the beliefs and practices derived from the councils of the fourth century and later, particularly those arising from the Council of Nicaea. Because Catholicism derives its creed from these councils and Protestantism retains many of them, Latter-day Saints believe not in a reformation of the gospel, but in a restoration of the gospel. That does not make them less Christian than orthodox Christians, what the Latter-day Saints are seeking is more knowledge about the original gospel of Jesus Christ.
But, precisely this is the point. Neither is this a forum for doctrinal or apologetic discussion, nor should Faithlife discriminate or make distinctions in that regard. FaithLife has entire bookstores devoted to various denominations in particular. I have mentioned that the Latter-day Saints have thousands of books of interest, whether doctrinal, historical, thematic, and many others. A quick division can be made between official and unofficial books. The most representative books to understand the LDS are the official books, which are found in the Gospel Library and in the official site of the Church. They are all free and freely available. The others, many written by independent authors, can be obtained from different sources and are easily accessible. Because of their quantity, variety and topical interest, these books would benefit greatly from the Logos indexing system. I have proven this by creating personal books.
Many of them serve as biblical commentaries, and are very useful for an unbiased and authentic understanding of the LDS viewpoint on every verse of the Bible. By including in its collection only books of apologetic interest, FaithLife is ruling out any other interest in studying the Latter-day Saints. That is why I point out that this collection is not at all representative (imagine, less than 60 books out of thousands) and is not, of course, unbiased. Still, the works it contains are valuable, but it would be even more beneficial and unbiased to create a complete Library for this denomination. The Latter-day Saints have enough material for this and much more, and I truly believe this is an excellent business opportunity for FaithLife.
0 -
What Jeffrey has said is totally true. The LDS use of the term "god" doesn't mean that they worship many gods. Thanks for clarifying.
0 -
I also think this is the right path. If that could be possible, I would love to contribute with books, materials, contacts, etc, to make possible to have a complete library. I think the indexing system of Logos would be benefitial to millions of persons who would be glad to acquire the system to improve their study. I know the Church itself would also be glad to contribute.
0 -
If you look at what the Seventh-day Adventists have done, it is clear that with evidence of a sufficient customer base and the cooperation of the Church publishers, a great deal can e done quickly. Its a matter of finding the right people with the right approach to FaithLife
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
For those who would like to study Mormon thought extensively, they already have a software created called "Scripture Citation Index." It is hosted by BYU and can be viewed and used by all free of charge. https://scriptures.byu.edu/
A list of their authoritative commentaries, again hosted by BYU, can be found here. https://guides.lib.byu.edu/c.php?g=216544&p=1429443
0 -
After following he discussion somewhat, I think Faithlife may be holding off on the production of this series due to its viability in contrast to current Mormon thought. While investigating for resources that would be more in line with the current projection of Mormon theology; I found quite a few "open-access" journals on BYU's website, and another with a creative commons license. Below is a link, though they are not converted into Logos books, to about 210 volumes of peer-reviewed Mormon Theological Journals. They are "International Journal of Mormon Studies," "Interpreter," "Journal of Mormon Studies," and "Religious Educator Perspectives on the Renewed Gospel."
Now, I dont know if Logos can create a collection of these journals. They are clearly marked "free & open access." While the journal "Interpreter" has a creative commons license. With that being said, you will probably find more insight into Mormon theology in these journals than anywhere else. These are not Mormon lay-journals, these are written by Mormon scholars for Mormon scholars and are a treasure trove for Christians who are into Mormon Apologetics. While I wish I had time to convert these to Logos format, simply having them in one convenient download package is the best I can do. The link to the collection is below and is about 1.8gb. God Bless.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1o10vilOphhnnd4GIlt8ThAZiin9iFJsD?usp=sharing0 -
A number of LDS journals have gone completely open access recently.
- BYU Studies- This does history, scripture, theology, poetry, literature. Academic, but accessible and traditional (due to its association with BYU)
- Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought— Covers the same areas, but no institutional affiliation. That means its character or lean changes with the editor. It tends to lean progressive/non-traditional, it's just a question of how much. Right now, it's extremely progressive.
- Journal of Mormon History— No institutional affiliation, academic, broad.
There are some others as well, but the their history, affiliation, relationship, shifting approaches and names are too much inside-baseball for Logos, so I'll mostly just list them.
- The Journal of Book of Mormon Studies
- The FARMS Review (of Books)
- Mormon Historical Studies
- Interpreter: A Journal of Latter-day Saint Faith and Scholarship— the traditionalist academic wing.
- Studies in the Bible and Antiquity
- Exponent II- Feminism, poetry, literature. Tends to be highly progressive.
- Sunstone— like Dialogue, but not peer-reviewed, shorter articles, cartoons, tends to be highly progressive.
- Religious Educator— Aimed at professional LDS teachers. Quasi-academic, scripture/history/theology, but also devotional. Published by BYU, so tends to the traditional side.
"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected."- G.K. Chesterton
0 -
"A list of their authoritative commentaries," I can't imagine what "authoritative" means here, but I wouldn't use the term.
"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected."- G.K. Chesterton
0 -
Ben said:
"A list of their authoritative commentaries," I can't imagine what "authoritative" means here, but I wouldn't use the term.
The only thing it can mean. Produced by Mormon Scholars that hold to the Mormon Worldview and theological perspective. They are also suggested by BYU, which I believe is the premier Mormon University in the US. They are authoritative within their theological framework.
0 -
David Jonescue said:Ben said:
"A list of their authoritative commentaries," I can't imagine what "authoritative" means here, but I wouldn't use the term.
The only thing it can mean. Produced by Mormon Scholars that hold to the Mormon Worldview and theological perspective. They are also suggested by BYU, which I believe is the premier Mormon University in the US. They are authoritative within their theological framework.
Interesting. That implies that "authoritative" is used differently in the LDS tradition than in the Catholic tradition. Another interesting distinction of vocabulary differences to tuck away in my may-be-useful mental file.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
Yes. "Authoritive" in the Mormon religion is fluid, as fluid as their "Apostles" grant "authority" to "authorized" work.
If you use their work against them then it has to be "Authorized" by their council or "Apostles". For Example McConkie's first edition of Mormon Doctrine is not authorized because it spoke against the Catholic Church, and they had him revise it for the second edition, which is "Authorized".
Personally, I think they decided to use that as an excuse to make themselves appear more Christian. Becasue when McConkie wrote it their belief system was openly AntiChristian.0 -
This comment is clearly outside the guidelines of the forums. Please refrain from derogatory statements about any religious faith system.Deborah Alves said:Personally, I think they decided to use that as an excuse to make themselves appear more Christian. Becasue when McConkie wrote it their belief system was openly AntiChristian.
Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:Please abide by the following guidelines as you interact on our forums.
- Please keep your discussions focused on Logos Bible Software: our software, products, websites, company, tools, etc.
- Please do not discuss or debate biblical, theological, or other controversial topics. Use one of the many web forums intended for these kinds of discussions.
- Please treat each other with the love, courtesy, respect, and kindness that you would if you were sitting in your living room together.
- Please do not use our forums to
- sell or give away anything or link to anything you’re selling or giving away—including Logos products
- promote or link to competitors
- promote affiliate links or discounts
- point people to other places that sell Logos-compatible products
- advertise yourself, your business, your ministry, your website, etc. (a tasteful link in your forum signature is acceptable)
- post Logos Coupon Codes. If you are aware of a special promotion Logos is running online, you are welcome to link directly to the promotion.
- Please search before posting. It’s likely that someone has already asked your question.
- Please help others follow these guidelines. If the problems continue after you’ve given a gentle reminder of these expectations, please click “Report Abuse” under “More” or send an email to forums@logos.com. If a user is a repeat offender, we may temporarily suspend their account. If the offenses continue, we reserve the right to permanently ban the offender's account from the forums either by shadow banning it or blocking it entirely.
Thank you for your cooperation. Enjoy discussing and learning about Logos Bible Software.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
I'd still like to see the Mormon Studies Collection (22 vols.) to make it through Community Pricing and be published. There are a couple of reasons for this. I do think the collection has some historical value, if nothing else. It would also send FaithLife a signal that there's a market for materials on the LDS. Perhaps that would clear the path for them to offer more current works, from both within the tradition and from outside it.
0 -
EastTN said:
I'd still like to see the Mormon Studies Collection (22 vols.) to make it through Community Pricing and be published. There are a couple of reasons for this. I do think the collection has some historical value, if nothing else. It would also send FaithLife a signal that there's a market for materials on the LDS. Perhaps that would clear the path for them to offer more current works, from both within the tradition and from outside it.
I imagine it could have supplementary value to compare changes. But I think I'd want to start with a "This is what we now hold" collection instead of a "we don't consider this relevant or binding" collection.
And, yes, I could be phrasing it in a way that is nonsense to actual Mormons. I'll leave it to them to correct me if that's the case.
WIN 11 i7 9750H, RTX 2060, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD | iPad Air 3
Verbum Max0 -
David Wanat said:
I imagine it could have supplementary value to compare changes. But I think I'd want to start with a "This is what we now hold" collection instead of a "we don't consider this relevant or binding" collection.
In my perfect world the collection would have a mix of both current and historical materials. It's obviously important to have the "this is what we now hold" perspective. But as someone who's looking in from the outside, the kinds of changes that have occurred over time are also of interest to me.
My concern is that if this collection doesn't make it through community pricing, it could be some time before we see another one offered. Of course, I could be wrong, and they may offer another collection tomorrow.
0 -
I don't really see them rushing into it. While Logos may be ecumenical within the main 3 (Protestant, Orthodox, Catholic) and the nuances within them; I think they are going to draw a line between being a distinctly Christian platform apart from what would be considered outside the fold. Think about it, when we open Logos, we are met with media including scripture verses; etc. There will never be a day in Logos that we are going to have quotes from the Dalai Lama, Muhammad, or the Pearl of Great Price. It is not going to happen. I also do not think they are ever going to offer alter-religious texts outside of its apologetic value in regards to the conversion of those within those realms, as opposed to being a platform for those within those realms to be further edified by being offered a platform for the advancement of their knowledge in a non-Christian religion. Logos is not that hard up for money, and they do not only see green. If anything, they would create a different platform that could be totally neutral and offer any book of any persuasion; but I see them keeping a tight reign on what they are going to let loose in Logos. And with this in mind, knowing that few people actually go from historical Christianity to Mormonism as oppose to the opposite; it will probably be hard for Logos to license Mormon literature if those that publish such, know it is going to be used specifically for an apologetic and deconversion tool against their belief system. It may be the main reason they are stuck using Public Domain works.
0 -
David Jonescue said:
If anything, they would create a different platform that could be totally neutral and offer any book of any persuasion; but I see them keeping a tight reign on what they are going to let loose in Logos.
I'm thinking maybe another software app. Something like, well, let me see. Noet? Or its earlier concept Libronix? Smiling.
0 -
David Jonescue said:
I don't really see them rushing into it. While Logos may be ecumenical within the main 3 (Protestant, Orthodox, Catholic) and the nuances within them; I think they are going to draw a line between being a distinctly Christian platform apart from what would be considered outside the fold. Think about it, when we open Logos, we are met with media including scripture verses; etc. There will never be a day in Logos that we are going to have quotes from the Dalai Lama, Muhammad, or the Pearl of Great Price. It is not going to happen.
You don't get to say what is or is not in the fold and to attempt to do so is inappropriate in the forums. From the Luther College site:
Is Mormonism Christian? (luthercollege.edu)">According to a standard dictionary definition of Christians "as believers and followers of Christ", Mormons are Christians. Further, because the majority show universal Christian values such as generosity and forgiveness, the observance of regular worship and avoidance of “bad” deeds, Mormons seem to act as “Christians.” However, these observances answer the question of whether Mormons are Christians and not necessarily whether Mormonism, and thus the doctrine and beliefs of the LDS Church, are Christian. Jan Shipps, a Methodist and noted scholar of Mormonism, is often asked whether she believes Mormons are Christians and responds with questions of whether the question is analytical, analogical, historiographical or theological and religious.
Or if you prefer NPR:
Explaining the Underpinnings of Mormonism : NPR">
And Mormons today would still believe that their church is the restoration of the true Christian church?
That is correct. It doesn't mean that no one else in the world will be saved except Mormons — that's not a Mormon belief. But they do believe that this is the church that God has authorized and is directing today.
BTW: historically the three branches of Christianity are (1) Oriental Orthodox (Syriac/Peshitta), (2) Eastern Orthodox (Greek/LXX) and (3) Catholic (Latin/Vulgate). Protestant is an offshoot of the latter, often treated as a 4th thread.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
And I would say your response from Luther college is not appropriate in the forum either.
0 -
David Jonescue said:
There will never be a day in Logos that we are going to have quotes from the Dalai Lama, Muhammad, or the Pearl of Great Price. It is not going to happen. I also do not think they are ever going to offer alter-religious texts outside of its apologetic value in regards to the conversion of those within those realms, as opposed to being a platform for those within those realms to be further edified by being offered a platform for the advancement of their knowledge in a non-Christian religion.
https://www.logos.com/product/65180/skylight-paths-illuminations-series
I personally hope that Logos does branch out more, or launches a second neutral platform, or otherwise finds a solution, for those of us with an academic interest in other religious traditions. Being able to Google the contents of one's book collection is immensely useful outside of any pastoral / missional / Christian pedagogical intent.
0 -
Bob said:
And I would say your response from Luther college is not appropriate in the forum either.
It should not be necessary. But now and then we get a group of new Logos forum users who don't understand the breadth of positions Logos supports -- they need to be reminded that everyone should feel comfortable in the forums. I quote a variety of sources to avoid giving my personal opinion.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
There is a difference between being respectful and making people feel welcome; and ignoring traditional Christianity to do so. We are not to ignore our own beliefs to make people feel as if they are the same as. Mormons theological underpinnings exclude them from any resemblance to biblical orthodoxy; from the relationship of God to humanity, the relationship of Jesus and Satan, the relationship of humanities intent, and the relationship of the afterlife. They believe skin color determines your (previous) relationship with God; and that is only a single facet of their divergence form orthodoxy. While I will not disrespect them and call them names: I will not pretend they are any more Christian than Buddhism, or Islam which also hold Jesus in high esteem. Nowhere in the forum guidelines that you posted does it say we have to pretend everyone is Christian in the name of charity. There is a reason Faithlife does not offer Mormon works; and it is not because they are one of us.MJ. Smith said:Bob said:And I would say your response from Luther college is not appropriate in the forum either.
It should not be necessary. But now and then we get a group of new Logos forum users who don't understand the breadth of positions Logos supports -- they need to be reminded that everyone should feel comfortable in the forums. I quote a variety of sources to avoid giving my personal opinion.
0 -
David Jonescue said:
There will never be a day in Logos that we are going to have quotes from the Dalai Lama, Muhammad, or the Pearl of Great Price. It is not going to happen.
Is it possible to understand Gregory Palamas's theology or Francis of Assisi's biography without a sympathetic understanding of Islam especially in it's Sufi aspects? Is it possible to understand Thomas Merton or Alan Watts without a basic understanding of certain schools of Buddhism? Can you understand Ramon Llull without an understanding of the Judaism of the Kabbalah? Those are the examples that first come to mind for examples of non-Christian theologians/philosophers affecting Christian theologians sufficiently that you must understand the former. That is ignoring the obvious Greek philosophers influence and omitting Hinduism, Taoism, and a few others where no major name came to mind. Mind you, an equal list of Christianity influencing other religions is also possible ... simply not relevant for showing that Logos should provide resource from other religions without them having an apologetic/polemic purpose.
You should also note that some progressive Christian lectionaries include gnostic Christian texts. Also from the progressive Christian side is A New New Testament: A Bible for the Twenty-first Century Combining Traditional and Newly Discovered Texts Faithlife Ebooks. Never underestimate how broad a range of beliefs Logos/Verbum supports.
In the spirit of full disclosure for the newer members of the forum community: my own beliefs are very conservative to the point of being positively medieval according to my pastor. However, I have sympathy for, but not belief in, the perennial philosophy perspective..
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
David Jonescue said:
There is a difference between being respectful and making people feel welcome; and ignoring traditional Christianity to do so.
I suspect you and I have very different definitions of "traditional Christianity". However, our differences are irrelevant. Rather I have bolded the relevant guidelines:
Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:Please abide by the following guidelines as you interact on our forums.
- Please keep your discussions focused on Logos Bible Software: our software, products, websites, company, tools, etc.
- Please do not discuss or debate biblical, theological, or other controversial topics. Use one of the many web forums intended for these kinds of discussions.
- Please treat each other with the love, courtesy, respect, and kindness that you would if you were sitting in your living room together.
- Please do not use our forums to
- sell or give away anything or link to anything you’re selling or giving away—including Logos products
- promote or link to competitors
- promote affiliate links or discounts
- point people to other places that sell Logos-compatible products
- advertise yourself, your business, your ministry, your website, etc. (a tasteful link in your forum signature is acceptable)
- post Logos Coupon Codes. If you are aware of a special promotion Logos is running online, you are welcome to link directly to the promotion.
- Please search before posting. It’s likely that someone has already asked your question.
- Please help others follow these guidelines. If the problems continue after you’ve given a gentle reminder of these expectations, please click “Report Abuse” under “More” or send an email to forums@logos.com. If a user is a repeat offender, we may temporarily suspend their account. If the offenses continue, we reserve the right to permanently ban the offender's account from the forums either by shadow banning it or blocking it entirely.
Thank you for your cooperation. Enjoy discussing and learning about Logos Bible Software.
The topic of who is or is not under the umbrella of "Christian" is quintessentially theological, especially when using definitions outside the generic dictionary definition.
David Jonescue said:Nowhere in the forum guidelines that you posted does it say we have to pretend everyone is Christian in the name of charity.
I'm not suggesting that you pretend anything. I'm saying the forums are not the place to indicate you think it would be "pretending" to leave your theology at the door.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
David Jonescue said:
There will never be a day in Logos that we are going to have quotes from the Dalai Lama, Muhammad, or the Pearl of Great Price. It is not going to happen.
You might be surprised. You can buy the Qu'ran here:The Qu'ran (English) | Logos Bible Software
0 -
David Jonescue said:
There is a reason Faithlife does not offer Mormon works; and it is not because they are one of us.
David, you can't really be that naive? Faithlife put the Mormon Collection up for customer interest ... if they get enough 'votes' they'll produce it. Been doing that for many years now.
And as above, through the years, they've offered a host of viewpoints, even a separate platform (Noet), many views not matching their own. Recently they moved Noet over to the main app ... no shyness there ... business.
And quite frankly, Logos is the absolute best app to demonstrate the errors of modern Christianity (if you'd like). If one is doubting their faith, Logos can quickly finish it off (and of course, the opposite too).
Now, back to the Mormon collection, and this is 'my' guess. Ben put out a great grouping of modern and useful LDS resources, great for apologetic use ... and there's an oldie collection collecting votes now. My 'bet' is that Ben's grouping wouldn't get bought ... the huge Mormon 'interest' is largely just curiousity and cheap price.
Added:
This morning I was over in Accordance, re-arranging my library ... I was reminded I have 3 Japanese Bible translations. I wondered if Logos ever brought back (they used to have a Japanese interlinear) any Japanese Bibles. Nope. But I was excited to see Faithlife's special offering:
Pornography, Ideology, and the Internet: A Japanese Adult Video Actress in Mainland China
0 -
DMB said:
Added:
This morning I was over in Accordance, re-arranging my library ... I was reminded I have 3 Japanese Bible translations. I wondered if Logos ever brought back (they used to have a Japanese interlinear) any Japanese Bibles. Nope. But I was excited to see Faithlife's special offering:
Pornography, Ideology, and the Internet: A Japanese Adult Video Actress in Mainland China
That’s … downright bizarre from the topic right down to the $99.50 price tag 😰
WIN 11 i7 9750H, RTX 2060, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD | iPad Air 3
Verbum Max0 -
Rick said:
You might be surprised. You can buy the Qu'ran here:The Qu'ran (English) | Logos Bible Software
The Logos collection I posted in my comment on the last page had quite a few texts from other religions, including Islam, Buddhism, and Wicca. It had the Book of Mormon in it.
I did my master's thesis at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School on a Mormon topic; my committee consisted of Douglas A. Sweeney (who has books on Logos), John D. Woodbridge (who has books on Logos) and Maxine Hanks (a well-known feminist who was excommunicated from the Mormon church in 1993 and later re-admitted).
Kyle Beshears at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary has done both his master's thesis and doctoral dissertation on Mormon topics.
Of course, evangelicals like Craig L. Blomberg, Gerald R. McDermott, and Carl Mosser have engaged academically with Mormonism. Frank Beckwith as well (ex-evangelical turned Catholic).
Mormonism represents an academic area of interest for many of us in the evangelical world. A repository of Mormon texts in Logos would be useful for that reason alone.
0 -
The Qu'ran is there for apologetic purposed. The Mormon material is there for the same purposes. Just because Islamic and Mormon resources are offered on Logos does not mean Logos is including them in orthodox Christianity.
0 -
Jeffrey Visser said:
The Qu'ran is there for apologetic purposed. The Mormon material is there for the same purposes. Just because Islamic and Mormon resources are offered on Logos does not mean Logos is including them in orthodox Christianity.
I do recall back in the days of Libronix 3, they had to make a disclaimer that they were not equating it with Scripture when they first offered the Quran for sale. And some people were still troubled by that.
Speaking personally, I prefer to research the (translated) texts instead of relying on what others describe them as. I've seen others misrepresent my own religion because of that and I try (don't always succeed) not to do the same.
WIN 11 i7 9750H, RTX 2060, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD | iPad Air 3
Verbum Max0 -
Jeffrey Visser said:
The Qu'ran is there for apologetic purposed.
There is certainly a portion of the Logos/Verbum market whose interest in the Qu'ran is not apologetic but rather interfaith dialogue. I get 150 results when I query Logos.com for "interfaith" e.g.
- Facing Up to Mortality: Interfaith/Interreligious Explorations | Logos Bible Software
- A Communication Perspective on Interfaith Dialogue: Living Within the Abrahamic Traditions | Logos Bible Software
- Christian – Zen Dialogue: Sacred Stories as a Starting Point for Interfaith Dialogue | Logos Bible Software
- Postcolonial Practice of Ministry: Leadership, Liturgy, and Interfaith Engagement | Logos Bible Software
- Humble Confidence: A Model for Interfaith Apologetics | Logos Bible Software
- Five Voices Five Faiths: An Interfaith Primer | Logos Bible Software
- Doing the Work of Comparative Theology: A Primer for Christians | Logos Bible Software
- Pathways to Peace: Interreligious Readings and Reflections | Logos Bible Software
Others have an interest for purposes of tracing the history of theological concepts or in the mutual influences on cultural boundaries e.g. how religious teaching tales change as they cross cultural and religious boundaries.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
David Wanat said:
I do recall back in the days of Libronix 3, they had to make a disclaimer that they were not equating it with Scripture when they first offered the Quran for sale. And some people were still troubled by that.
Yes, they have come a long way. My library has 3 different English translations of the Qu'ran and one Arabic version along with many books on Islam. I doubt anyone confused Islam for Christianity because they posted these books for apologetic reasons.
Just like the rest of us, the decision makers at Logos will be accountable in that great day for decisions they made that drew people towards Christ or away from Christ as well as what motivated their decision - User counts, money, desire to spread the gospel, putting tools in the hands of teachers, preachers, and evangelists, etc.
0 -
Jeffrey Visser said:
Just like the rest of us, the decision makers at Logos will be accountable in that great day for decisions they made that drew people towards Christ or away from Christ as well as what motivated their decision
Please spare me your theology. Knowledge per se is neutral with regards to drawing/pushing towards Christ. For some, curiosity about God's creation is an expression of appreciation for all of God's creation. If your beliefs are true, additional knowledge on any topic is no threat.
I'd better bow out of this thread - both to stay within the guidelines (which this post skirts distinguishing between theology and epistemology [8-|]) and to preserve my own Christian equanimity.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
MJ. Smith said:Jeffrey Visser said:
Just like the rest of us, the decision makers at Logos will be accountable in that great day for decisions they made that drew people towards Christ or away from Christ as well as what motivated their decision
Please spare me your theology. Knowledge per se is neutral with regards to drawing/pushing towards Christ. For some, curiosity about God's creation is an expression of appreciation for all of God's creation. If your beliefs are true, additional knowledge on any topic is no threat.
This is not theology and this is not about knowledge pushing someone toward Christ - though very few books are knowledge without persuasion. This is purely about all people being judged by a holy God who will judge their hearts and motivations - something none of us can know or judge on.
0 -
Jeffrey Visser said:
Just like the rest of us, the decision makers at Logos will be accountable in that great day for decisions they made that drew people towards Christ or away from Christ as well as what motivated their decision - User counts, money, desire to spread the gospel, putting tools in the hands of teachers, preachers, and evangelists, etc.
I don't believe that FL makes these resources available out of religious indifferentism or syncretism. Nor do I believe they put money above their religious beliefs. I find that having resources outside of my own beliefs for research purposes is a legitimate service FL provides, whether apologetics or religious dialogue. So, I think that's a bit uncalled for.
WIN 11 i7 9750H, RTX 2060, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD | iPad Air 3
Verbum Max0 -
Deborah Alves said:
Yes. "Authoritive" in the Mormon religion is fluid, as fluid as their "Apostles" grant "authority" to "authorized" work.
If you use their work against them then it has to be "Authorized" by their council or "Apostles". For Example McConkie's first edition of Mormon Doctrine is not authorized because it spoke against the Catholic Church, and they had him revise it for the second edition, which is "Authorized".
Personally, I think they decided to use that as an excuse to make themselves appear more Christian. Becasue when McConkie wrote it their belief system was openly AntiChristian.Yeah, this recounting is inaccurate on multiple levels.
"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected."- G.K. Chesterton
0 -
I did not assign motivation to anyone. I gave several motivations one could have - some honorable and some not. In a subsequent post, I also specifically said that I could not and would not assign motivation to the decision makers. I do stand by my inference that an action could be done that may or may not be a sin based on the motivation and intentions of the action. Again, not my place to judge.David Wanat said:Jeffrey Visser said:Just like the rest of us, the decision makers at Logos will be accountable in that great day for decisions they made that drew people towards Christ or away from Christ as well as what motivated their decision - User counts, money, desire to spread the gospel, putting tools in the hands of teachers, preachers, and evangelists, etc.
I don't believe that FL makes these resources available out of religious indifferentism or syncretism. Nor do I believe they put money above their religious beliefs. I find that having resources outside of my own beliefs for research purposes is a legitimate service FL provides, whether apologetics or religious dialogue. So, I think that's a bit uncalled for.
I do agree with you that there is a broader use than just apologetics that includes research and religious dialogue for purposes outside of apologetics. I have books across many denominations and religions in logos and enjoy some of them for the learning experience apart of evangelism and apologetics. You do make a good point.
0 -
David Wanat said:
I don't believe that FL makes these resources available out of religious indifferentism or syncretism. Nor do I believe they put money above their religious beliefs. I find that having resources outside of my own beliefs for research purposes is a legitimate service FL provides, whether apologetics or religious dialogue...
That's my sense as well. I personally find that part of the value of the Logos ecosystem to me is that it provides, in essence, a reasonably well curated bookstore specializing in works useful to thoughtful Christians (for a reasonably broad, but still meaningful definition of "Christian"). Of course, not everything is of interest to me, but in most cases I can see why they offer the books that they carry.
0 -
https://www.logos.com/product/16021/mormon-studies-collection
I hadn't looked to see where this one ended up, after its transfiguration into a prepub. $200 ... a $10 savings!. That looks like a stake thru its heart (although 'almost there'). FL cautions might go worse.
Where's that modern Latter Day Saints collection Ben recommended?
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
0 -
You need to look at your individual price, set by your bid. Mine is only $30. I just need to wait it out.
0 -
Dale E Heath said:
You need to look at your individual price,
I didn't have a bid; I have the newer resources in hardcopy.
My comment was relative to new bidders ... they're looking at $200 for old stuff.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
0 -
DMB said:
My comment was relative to new bidders ... they're looking at $200 for old stuff.
I am not interested in paying $200 for this resource. So I thought to cancel. On my prepub orders page, it does not say the resource is $200, but rather, $30. I think this was my bid or prepub price when i first bid or pre-ordered. But on the product page it says my price is $199.99.
So is the price really $200 or is it $30. Can someone clarify what change was made when community pricing disappeared. Were our bids moved to pre-pub and prices changed? If this resource really is $200, I have a lot of cancelling to do
0 -
“Where's that modern Latter Day Saints collection Ben recommended?” Alas, there’s no interest. Just wouldn’t lend itself to easy anti-LDS prooftexting the same way
"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected."- G.K. Chesterton
0
