Seminary students -- Would you go electronic with a textbook?

I am 100% sold on the advantages of the electronic format (specifically Logos) over printed books. I've invested a lot in my Logos library and have ceased adding to my printed library. In some upcoming seminary courses some of the required textbooks are available in Logos as well as in print, and I do have a bit of uneasiness about going electronic here. When I have to know and be tested on a 400 page book cover to cover, I'm just wondering if mentally I can retain the material as well as with a book where each line always falls on the left or right side, at the same spot on the page, every time I open it. I'd love to hear any thoughts, suggestions, and experiences from others.

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

Rosie Perera

I'm like you; I retain material sometimes based on where on the page it falls. But I also use all kinds of other methods to help me retain material: underlining, highlighting, writing notes in the margins, summarizing, reviewing my underlined/highlighted portions and notes, etc. All of these latter are available to you in Logos. And you can ensure that the text always starts at the same place on the margin every time you open the book by using a fixed reading layout, such as the one I use for reading and studying heavy theological books. I described it recently over on this thread: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/15881/120533.aspx#120533

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/121198#Comment_121198

Mind you, I'm finding that reading a book through thoroughly in Logos is slower than reading it thoroughly in print. Logos just takes a while to scroll and apply highlighting and switch between panes and such, and so far that is the thing that's bogging me down, not my own thought processes. I'm still willing to give it a try (I'm reading something this way for the first time now -- N.T. Wright's The New Testament and the People of God) because of the benefit of being able to search later through my notes. I expect Logos will continue to improve the performance as they work on optimization over the next couple of months.

Blair Laird

Text to speech support in Logos is an additional benifit for retention. I am more of an audio learner myself, so sitting in class is benificial to me. While I am not in class being able to read and have the book read to me while I am reading helps me with retention. Discussing the topic with fellow believers also helps with retention. For that Christian forums come into play...

Blessings in Christ Jesus

Keith Gant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/121198#Comment_121198

I'm like you; I retain material sometimes based on where on the page it falls. But I also use all kinds of other methods to help me retain material: underlining, highlighting, writing notes in the margins, summarizing, reviewing my underlined/highlighted portions and notes, etc. All of these latter are available to you in Logos. And you can ensure that the text always starts at the same place on the margin every time you open the book by using a fixed reading layout, such as the one I use for reading and studying heavy theological books. I described it recently over on this thread: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/15881/120533.aspx#120533

Rosie, having the text always start at the same place on the screen every time is a great idea when studying a resource as a textbook (and just the kind of suggestions I was hoping to get - Thanks!). I've used saved layouts a lot, but how do you ensure that a given sentence somewhere in the book will always fall at the very same place on the screen, even if you use a layout which never changes? I would think that that would require either 1) Moving to the very top of the book (or better, the top of the current chapter) and then doing page-down's to reach the desired spot, or 2) never ever scrolling through the book by line or any other way other than page-down's, to keep it from getting off track. Is there some feature that I've missed which can lock the text to the same place on the screen every time you return to that piece of text? (Since books are tagged with the page numbers from the print edition, it would certainly be possible to have a feature which would do something like forcing the word at the top of each printed page to align to the top of the Logos screen.)

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/121212#Comment_121212

Rosie, having the text always start at the same place on the screen every time is a great idea when studying a resource as a textbook (and just the kind of suggestions I was hoping to get - Thanks!). I've used saved layouts a lot, but how do you ensure that a given sentence somewhere in the book will always fall at the very same place on the screen, even if you use a layout which never changes? I would think that that would require either 1) Moving to the very top of the book (or better, the top of the current chapter) and then doing page-down's to reach the desired spot, or 2) never ever scrolling through the book by line or any other way other than page-down's, to keep it from getting off track. Is there some feature that I've missed which can lock the text to the same place on the screen every time you return to that piece of text? (Since books are tagged with the page numbers from the print edition, it would certainly be possible to have a feature which would do something like forcing the word at the top of each printed page to align to the top of the Logos screen.)

Well, I was thinking more in terms of ensuring that the line-wrapping will always be the same because the width of the window is fixed in the layout. This will ensure that the words always appear in the same relative place horizontally. But you have a good point. Ensuring that the line always appears at the same place on the screen vertically as well would be helpful. You can always navigate to the beginning of a chapter (by opening the Table of Contents panel; click on the double chevron icon >> at the top of the panel) before starting to read that chapter, and then always use the PageDown key to scroll so that you're ensured to scroll the same amount each time, instead of sometimes using the scroll bar. Now that I read through your complete post more carefully, I see that those are precisely the ideas you had come up with. I don't know of any other way. Over time I've grown comfortable with reading text online and not having it have to be always in the same place on the page each time I encounter it. I haven't tested myself for retention yet, though. [:)]

Rene Atchley

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/121217#Comment_121217

Presently I am completing a theology degree other than an M. Div. I am not convinced that an electronic format is superior to paper in either ease of use or long term storage viability in place of a regular library. Classroom dynamics may, at times, limit the ability to use electronic formatted books due to the present level of technology. However, for other abled individuals electronic books maybe an aid make learning easier through such abilities as font size changes. In the end I appreciate the freedom to read what I want in hardback instead of relying on Logos (or anyone else) to determine that Tillich is far too liberal for their "library".

Donovan R. Palmer

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/121226#Comment_121226

I already am in many cases uses electronic textbooks due to my circumstances. What will probably sell me on the concept is whether or not reading them on an iPad is a good experience. I will most likely wait until generation 2 of the iPad is out, but it is something I am interested to try.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/121226#Comment_121226

I appreciate the freedom to read what I want in hardback instead of relying on Logos (or anyone else) to determine that Tillich is far too liberal for their "library".

I know this wasn't the main point of your post, but Logos does have some Tillich (a small amount) in this collection: http://www.logos.com/products/details/2834 and this one: http://www.logos.com/products/details/5608

Robert Pavich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/121233#Comment_121233

One thing that might help in this regard (locking the text in a specific spot) is if there was an option to ONLY move page by page...ala Kindle.

Not the best solution but it would help...

David A. Peterson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/121233#Comment_121233

I am a distance seminary student, and prefer electronic over textbook when ever I can. The clippings function aids me in highlighting important parts of the text, and add my own perspective, without trying to fit my nasty handwriting into a small margin. Being able to have the entire semester's worth of books with me if I am deployed or on travel is a big bonus as well. The final advantage that I really appreciate is being able to search it, with the rest of my library (especially the theological journals) to be able to compare and contrast views other than the textbook authors. As I have said before, it really allows me to spend more of my finite time for studies absorbing and processing the information instead of the hunting and gathering process.

But that is the view of a self-admitted Logosite (as I drink my coffee in my Logos cup, wearing my BRIGHT blue Logos 4 shirt).

In Christ,

Dave

spitzerpl

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/121198#Comment_121198

I'm like you; I retain material sometimes based on where on the page it falls

An excellent point you guys are making. Perhaps that is why I so often prefer my paper Bible, finding the verse seems easier because I know where on the page that verse lies...its easier to visualize the passage in my head from the paper Bible then the computer.

I'm not sure how and if Logos can compensate for this advantage. It would be foolish to say that all the other advantages of the electronic format are negated because of this one advantage for paper, though.

Bohuslav Wojnar

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/121261#Comment_121261

I am using highlighting a lot and than you can go through your highlighted places to get to the information. One more thing I do is to copy paragraphs or sentences I think I might use in the further work to a particular clippings file. I really like that feature of Logos 4. We need both, highlighting and clippings (and notes may be) in the iPhone/iPad Logos. I have been traveling recently, spending quite a lot of time at the airports (do I have to explain the reason? [:)] ) and iPhone is great for reading books, iPad might be even better.

Rene Atchley

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/121233#Comment_121233

I appreciate the freedom to read what I want in hardback instead of relying on Logos (or anyone else) to determine that Tillich is far too liberal for their "library".

I know this wasn't the main point of your post, but Logos does have some Tillich (a small amount) in this collection: http://www.logos.com/products/details/2834 and this one: http://www.logos.com/products/details/5608

Thanks for pointing out these resources Rosie...

Steve Adams

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/121273#Comment_121273

I am a distance learner (earned my BA and MA in Theology at Trinity Theo Sem in Newburgh and currently working on my PhD in a British hybrid program with Canterbury) and LOVE Logos. The one drawback with ordering all my textbooks with Logos is that, quite frankly, some of them I don't want to retain in my library once the course is completed. With hard copies I can sell them back or on Amazon and get a portion of my investment back to purchase new books. Some books I want to keep, so those I look and see if Logos has them. If they do, I order them for the electronic library. But, even if Logos has them and I know I'm not going to want to keep them after a specific course, then I'll buy the hard copy and resell them when I've finished with them.

Nancy

Aaron

As a recent seminary grad, I have found using the e-book format as helpful as a traditional book. If I liked the paragraph, I often would highlight, add a clipping or put in a favorite folder. However, I in order to review, the material, I made index cards to review.

Scott S

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/121212#Comment_121212

I've used saved layouts a lot, but how do you ensure that a given sentence somewhere in the book will always fall at the very same place on the screen,

Have you tried Copy Location as URL?

1. Position the resource at the point in the content that you want to save.

2. Use the big icon in the upper left corner of your resource window to pull down the menu and select Copy Location as URL.

3. Paste the URL into your notes.

4. To return to the location in the resource, paste the URL into the Command Box.

John Bowling

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/121292#Comment_121292

As has already been mentioned, an actual book gives you some physical orientation as to "where you are" in the book that an electronic book lacks. Even though electronic books allows you to search the text, it's much much easier for me to remember where something is in a physical book that I've already read.

Even if I don't remember the page number or the chapter, I can virtually always remember whether it was in the first 1/3rd of the book or 2/3rds into it or in the last 1/3rd. While I'm able to do this to a lesser degree with electronic books, it's not possible to get as precise an orientation. Electronic books might be able to compensate for this by having the different third portions of the book shaded lighter or darker.

Also, I can flip through pages quickly while skimming the text to help re-orient myself and find what I was looking for. I haven't been able to do this with electronic books. Scrolling or paging down is slower and will probably always be slower than I can thumb through a page to look at headings and paragraphs. For one thing, there is no choppiness (or my brain smooths out the choppiness) as there is when scrolling or changing pages in an electronic book.

The one advantage electronic books seem to have in this area is the search function. But this feature really only seems useful when you know the exact phrasing of a large portion of the text you are looking for or when you are looking for something in a book or books that you haven't read yet.

For example, last night I was looking for a passage in a book I had read that discussed the psychological pressures of self-deception that accompany being a professor at a Christian institution. I couldn't remember any of the exact phrases the author used, so the ability to "search" would have been virtually useless. Of course, I remembered individual words like "college" and "deceive" and "pressure," but those were words that occurred hundreds of time throughout the entire book. It would have taken a long time to sift through each instance. Luckily, this was a book I owned in print form and I was able to find the passage in under a minute, even though I only had a vague idea of what exactly the author said and a vague idea of where it was (in the first 1/3rd of the book). From my own experience, I know that it would have taken much longer to find that passage in an electronic format.

Because of this, I've come to believe that electronic books are only advantageous at the practical level for works like commentaries, dictionaries, encyclopedias, journals or works that span several volumes. Beyond this, a print book still has the advantage at the practical level. Of course, theoretically a book on the kindle might be lighter and take up less space. But the average book size isn't so heavy and so large that you can't carry it around with you (people have been doing it for a long time without any trouble). And I've never been in a situation where I thought "Aw rats, I wish I had 300 books on me right now!" So this "advantage" is negligible in my opinion and the print book is still has the advantage at the practical level.

When electronic books have a better "fuzzy" search function that finds word synonyms and is able to ignore word order at some intelligent level, and when DRM is not as ridiculous and we don't have to worry about whether we will still be able to access our electronic book in ten years then I would buy all my books in electronic format. Until then I'll stick with print books for the most part since they allow me to do my work more efficiently.

By the way, this is an opinion that I've come to just over the last several months after using Logos, Kindle for PC, the iPod Touch, the Barnes and Noble electronic reader, and the Adobe Digital Editions reader extensively. At this point, I'm sorry that I spent as much money on electronic books as I did. They would be much more useful to me in print format and I've considered that it might be worth paying for the item twice just to have a print edition.

Mike Childs

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/121302#Comment_121302

"And I've never been in a situation where I thought 'Aw rats, I wish I had 300 books on me right now!'"

I have. Almost every time I travel, which is often.

For me electronic books are not always better than paper. I do think for commentaries, language tools, Bible Dictionaries, and large collections such as Spurgeon's sermons, Wesley's Works, and the Church Fathers that the electronic form is far superior - especially in Logos.

On the other hand, I think for any book that I intend to read from cover to cover, as well as for most theological books, I prefer paper. I probably would not buy classroom books in electronic format.

Everyone is different. We all have individual study habits. Go with what works for you. I would hope no one feels a need to "defend" Logos or paper books - nor the need to criticize the other.

Roger Feenstra

Previously, I didn't think reading a textbook, commentary, (or narrative for that matter) electronically would work for me. I like the feel of the book. I enjoy highlighter in hand and pencil at the ready. And, I will probably always enjoy that aspect of reading. Yet, since reading with my iPod Touch (and on April 30th, iPad). I find it very difficult to pick up or buy a paper bound book. True, while I cannot highlight in Logos on iPod/iPad, it is very easy to bookmark a page (or make it a favorite) and find it later. I like that the book is always with me. I can access the textbook or commentary I am reading at anytime. And it's just going to get better--and easier.

In a few years we won't be having this conversation. But, as those have mentioned in other forums, it really is a matter of preference.

Blessings,

Roger

Jon

This question and discussion makes me wonder why there couldn't be a book reading view (perhaps replace 'reading view') to mitigate against these problems....

See suggestion here

Jacob Hantla

I find that textbooks are where reading in Logos is exceptionally beneficial. The ability to create notes, open panes side-by-side, highlight, copy and paste excerpts, hover over links, get instant definitions, and search all help me to retain more. I lose some of the spacial recognition of where stuff was on a page, but my retention of the content of the material is far increased. If I want to find that quote, I can search. I also find it very helpful in reviewing to jump from one highlight to the next to the next to remind myself of the content of the chapter in just a few minutes.

Garrett Ho

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/121334#Comment_121334

If only for the class itself, I'd prefer a hardcopy. But, thinking ahead to future reference, I've purchased required reading in Logos when able and haven't been disappointed.

Friedrich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/121389#Comment_121389

Yes, I like holding a book in my hand, or seeing where I am on a page. That said, I would ALWAYS buy the electronic form (in Logos, of course). Searching (John Bowling's excellent counter argument notwithstanding), hyperlinking, portability (maybe I don't need 300 at once, but i do 15 or 20 and don't want to go find an apple box to lug them around in.)

I would buy Logos EVERY SINGLE TIME . . . EXCEPT, when I discover the hardcopy has nice photographs and illustrations, whereas Logos does not, as I just did when weeding out my hardcopy library today: Gower's "The New Manners and Customrs of BIble Times" is beautifully illustrated. Logos version? Nada, zip, zilch, zero, nothing, nichts. Oh, I CAN change my font in Logos . . .

I am sure it is a "rights" issue, but that is just really frustrating as a user: the illustrations add so much to the work (and are great for presentations), but there are more than one or two occasions where Logos doesn't have rights to the images (think Christian History Mag).

I will keep my hard copy of Gower's.

William

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/121233#Comment_121233

I appreciate the freedom to read what I want in hardback instead of relying on Logos (or anyone else) to determine that Tillich is far too liberal for their "library".

I know this wasn't the main point of your post, but Logos does have some Tillich (a small amount) in this collection: http://www.logos.com/products/details/2834 and this one: http://www.logos.com/products/details/5608

I was just contemplating this thought a bit more. I just have to wonder if Logos is trying to leave out this or that resource. It would seem that there are many many more books available that would have a bit higher priority than others to get into Logos. After all, there are only 12,000? books available. How many books do you think there are that would be good for logos publication?

Friedrich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/121405#Comment_121405

How many books do you think there are that would be good for logos publication?

Any that keep the sales coming in . . .

Alan Macgregor

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/121334#Comment_121334

Our university library (Aberdeen) has two things which I just love.

The first is ebrary an electronic library, with thousands of books which you can read online, highlight, bookmark, copy bits to OneNote or other software with automatic citation. Interestingly, in the light of some other current forum posts, you read a real page at a time, and turn the page.
The other is e-journals which enables you to find by article, copy citation to EndNote, even save a PDF of the article. Both of these are much more user-friendly than print copies on shelves, for one thing finding specific articles is much easier. Previously you had to have the journal and issue identified before you even went to the shelves, but now you can just search by author or title and you find it in e-journals.

I can access these from my home computer or laptop by just logging into the library. With electronic resources you can adjust font size to make for easy reading. You can copy and paste. With print books I take written notes into OneNote on my Toshiba Tablet using the built-in Windows XP Tablet handwriting recognition which can read my handwriting almost as well as I can!

One advantage of writing your notes over copy-and-paste is that the act of writing something down embeds it better in your memory, because you are training both kinetic as well as visual memory, (even auditory memory, if like me you subvocalise as you are writing. The more mnemonic aids you use the better you will assimilate what you are trying to read and remember. Yes, spatial memory is also useful here, as others have noted by position on the page.

Having Logos as well is brilliant. I am currently using L3 on the tablet, as it's too old and doesn't make the minimum spec for running L4. Even so, being able to change font size is excellent. Specifying citation style keeps everything easy to integrate into the thesis text.

I was checking today, as I handed back my last library book. I have borrowed 124 books from the university library, but my EndNote database has 387 items including journal articles and a small number (maybe 12) websites, so I reckon I have been two-thirds electronic in my research reading.

As I said in a letter to Bob Prichett a few months ago, without Logos I would not have had the time to work on a PhD and be a full-time Parish Minister.

As I prepare to retire in two years to a much smaller house, I'll have to dispose of many of my 2000+ books on my shelves, but I'll still have my 1500+ resources in Logos. [:)]

Valerie Pobog

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/121334#Comment_121334

Are you able to access your books without being in an area of wi-fi with your iPod touch?

Rene Atchley

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/121405#Comment_121405

I appreciate the freedom to read what I want in hardback instead of relying on Logos (or anyone else) to determine that Tillich is far too liberal for their "library".

I know this wasn't the main point of your post, but Logos does have some Tillich (a small amount) in this collection: http://www.logos.com/products/details/2834 and this one: http://www.logos.com/products/details/5608

I was just contemplating this thought a bit more. I just have to wonder if Logos is trying to leave out this or that resource. It would seem that there are many many more books available that would have a bit higher priority than others to get into Logos. After all, there are only 12,000? books available. How many books do you think there are that would be good for logos publication?

The importance of a single over riding theological authority making decision about what is or is not appropriate theological reflection should make one stop to think. Especially when there are in house scholar(s) selling his or her wares that may effect which works or authors that are selected for production. The only time this is noticed is when ones own approach or tradition has been missed totally from the library. Making profit from an conservative protestant and or Catholic community would not (necessarily) lead one to believe that publication of "liberal", godless, atheistic, significant theologians will be high on the list of things to do. However, if this approach would be followed in academic circles I wonder what the results would be? Would Luther ahve gotten published when his work first came out?

Scott S

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/121458#Comment_121458

Are you able to access your books without being in an area of wi-fi with your iPod touch?

Valerie, the iPod touch can store books for reading when Internet access is not available. Books must be individually identified for download. However, search and other functions require Internet access, at least for now.

Scott S

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/121442#Comment_121442

As I said in a letter to Bob Prichett a few months ago, without Logos I would not have had the time to work on a PhD and be a full-time Parish Minister.

That's a powerful statement.

Vincent Setterholm

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/121466#Comment_121466

instead of relying on Logos (or anyone else) to determine that Tillich is far too liberal for their "library".

The importance of a single over riding theological authority making decision about what is or is not appropriate theological reflection should make one stop to think. Especially when there are in house scholar(s) selling his or her wares that may effect which works or authors that are selected for production.

We really don't set out to be theological gatekeepers. We're in the process of ramping up production to 5000 titles a year. We're not going to be able to do that profitably if we only try to sell books to a narrow slice of the theological market.

At the extreme end, I think we've generally been careful about certain modern religious movements that have produced their own Scriptures - if those were on our website we'd almost certainly feel compelled to put up some disclaimer or comments about how they're useful "for apologetics" in order not to alienate our core customers, but I can't imagine the publishers wanting their material described that way, so for the most part we haven't published that sort of material. We actually had the Quran finished for over a year before we decided to go ahead and sell it (with such a disclaimer) because we were nervous about backlash. Turns out there was almost no negative reaction (the TNIV earned us more angry emails). But that sort of thing is really the only example I can recall of not publishing something on theological grounds.

That isn't to say that some things don't get done sooner than others simply because there is someone in the building championing the project. But that doesn't amount to anything like a 'single over riding theological authority'. We've got Phil promoting the Puritans, Lou promoting Catholic books; I've put together some collections of Grammarians, and the list goes on. And then the Prepub system tells us if there really is a market for these products we assemble. And of course, all of your suggestions help us to see things that might not be on our collective radar.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/121503#Comment_121503

Thanks for that reply, Vincent. I was already preparing to jump in and say something in Logos's defense about how you all are actively trying to get more books published each year, having started less than 20 years ago with only 4 titles (KJV, NIV, Strongs, Treasury of Scripture Knowledge) and now being up to 12,000 is pretty impressive (avg. of 600 new books a year). Hardly what I'd call "trying to leave out this or that resource." Thrilling to hear that you're working on getting production capacity up to 5000 books per year. I dread having to make the tough choices though, once so many resources are coming on line. My bank account is going to be hurting...

J.R. Miller

I am 100% sold on the advantages of the electronic format (specifically Logos) over printed books. I've invested a lot in my Logos library and have ceased adding to my printed library. In some upcoming seminary courses some of the required textbooks are available in Logos as well as in print, and I do have a bit of uneasiness about going electronic here. When I have to know and be tested on a 400 page book cover to cover, I'm just wondering if mentally I can retain the material as well as with a book where each line always falls on the left or right side, at the same spot on the page, every time I open it. I'd love to hear any thoughts, suggestions, and experiences from others.

Hi Keith, I used Logos in Seminary and now through my Doctoral studies and my only complaint is I wish I could get every single book in Logos.

1. Better productivity: Writing papers is faster since I can copy and paste quotes.

2. Time Value of Money: I can search larger works, find more relevant quotes in much shorter time which means I do more work, in less time and have more time with family and for ministry.

3. Life Cycle Value: Once the papers are done, I can go back and use those resources in the future for new content that I did not remember it contained just by searching. This means over the years, I have gotten more value from my purchase than on paper.

Blessings and have fun!

Joe

Rene Atchley

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/121503#Comment_121503

It is a good and right thing for a person with a vision to be able to move a company from nothing into a market dominating profitable company Vincent. There is nothing wrong in making a profit and selling those products or services that maximize return on the investments in a company like Logos. However, one does not have to intentionally seek to stifle or suppress certain voices in the larger theological community in order to get such an effect when the target market drives what is published. In fact with a dominant position in the bible publishing market Logs is or is becoming one (if not only) over riding voice on what is or is not appropriate (or even cutting edge from recent exegetical works) in the Christian e-book market place. Given the working and profitable model Logos has would Luther get published under a profit driven system when he posted his 95 Thesis?

How does one miss one of the most significant Christian theologian in the 20th century while publishing http://www.logos.com/products/details/3268[:|] While I may grumble a bit about the library and functionality of L4 I am buying products again from Logos. My hope is that I may have (and continue to have) access to those products that deal with the systematic handling of mental health issues and Christian theological thought....as in some of Tillich's work. My intent here is much more of an attempt to express disappointment over something that can help with my project than an attack on Logos.

J.R. Miller

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/121511#Comment_121511

Given the working and profitable model Logos has would Luther get published under a profit driven system when he posted his 95 Thesis?

The Logos Personal Book Builder allows any user to publish their work through Logos. So the answer is "yes", Luther would have gotten his work out... [:D] but then maybe the Pope would not have let the peasants buy laptops or iPads [:(]

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/121511#Comment_121511

How does one miss one of the most significant Christian theologian in the 20th century while publishing http://www.logos.com/products/details/3268

It has a lot to do with publisher relationships, I'm sure. Logos has a strong relationship with Sheffield Academic as they've published tons of their works, and are continuing to bring bunches more of them out in pre-pub bundles. It's much easier to get another book out when you already have an established relationship with the publisher. Logos started out with a more narrow target audience, so most of the publishers they worked with were evangelical ones (Revell, IVP, Hendrickson, Kregel, Galaxie, etc.) and mostly conservative ones at that. But over the years, as they've established themselves, they've been able to expand to meet the needs of a wider audience, and they've been adding more publishers on board: scholarly ones, Catholic ones, mainline denominational ones, and ones doing more liberal theological works. But it takes time to build those relationships. Tillich's works are published by a lot of different publishers (Yale U Press, U of Chicago Press, Fortress Press, Touchstone, Harper, Bison Press, etc.), which also makes it difficult; they can't easily bring out a bundle of all his greatest works. The good news is that Logos has already done business with the first three of those, so they have a place to negotiate from on getting rights to do some of his works. There evidently hasn't been much clamoring for his works by Logos users yet, either, as that also is a factor in which books they choose to do first. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

According to a recent post by a Logos employee, sending requests for books to suggest@logos.com is better than posting them in the Suggestions forum, as it's easier for them to track and log the titles we want. I'd buy Tillich if he were available. I've never been exposed to his writing, but am curious.

Vincent Setterholm

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/121511#Comment_121511

However, one does not have to intentionally seek to stifle or suppress certain voices in the larger theological community in order to get such an effect when the target market drives what is published.

We're charmed that some folk think so highly of our product that they don't read paper books anymore, but those (intelligent, funny, good-looking) folk are way in the minority. The people who read eBooks we publish but don't explore other digital content, whether it be free or commercial, are probably mythical - I've certainly never met one. Logos doesn't have the ability to suppress anything, even if we wanted to.

If Logos were around in 1517, we probably couldn't even get a license for the 95 Thesis; it sold like hotcakes! Seriously, though: We just finished a collection of N.T. Wright's books, and we recently posted a prepub that includes the book credited with starting the whole New Perspective on Paul debate. So I don't know why anyone would think we're creating some sort of conservative castle, or preventing people from engaging with important ideas.

Our target market is everyone engaged in serious Bible study. That's a pretty wide umbrella, and there are certainly segments of that market that we're not reaching yet. All we can do is continue to post a greater diversity of prepubs (with the help of your suggestions) and hope that our customers help spread the word when they see products that really meet the needs of their corner of the market.

Rene Atchley

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/121517#Comment_121517

I would suggest Joe that using the in house feed based self publishing tool...that is right isn't it? Is not the same as actually publishing a indexed searchable Logos based ebook with all the various benefits of the new L4 interface. I will however assume this is a bit of humor. I believe my contributions to this particular thread has been exhausted.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/121529#Comment_121529

There evidently hasn't been much clamoring for his works by Logos users yet, either, as that also is a factor in which books they choose to do first. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

Part of the reason this wheel hasn't been more squeaky with regards to 20th century theologians is that there are so many basic items missing for the Anglican-Lutheran-Catholic-Orthodox spectrum that I push for those that I think have the broadest interest to get more users into Logos. I see the first step as being changing the balance of the customer base. Tillich, Rahner, Buber, Conger, Heschel ...

Jeremy

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/121533#Comment_121533

I used Logos extensively in seminary. I used it for exegetical studies, commentaries, and word studies. I don't like reading whole books on it though cause it is tough on my eyes. I don't like sitting at a computer and looking at a screen for 2-3 hours at a time. But you can't beat it for everything else it does.

J.R. Miller

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/121531#Comment_121531

I would suggest Joe that using the in house feed based self publishing tool...that is right isn't it? Is not the same as actually publishing a indexed searchable Logos based ebook with all the various benefits of the new L4 interface.

Well, then you may be pleasantly surprised when PBB comes out for L4 [H] It will do much more than you imagine with a lot more power for users than we have seen in the past. The point is though that Logos creates opportunity for all voices voices to get published and disseminate their works to a large audience.

I will however assume this is a bit of humor.

are you referring to this part of my post?

but then maybe the Pope would not have let the peasants buy laptops or iPads

Yes, the juxtaposition of modern technology with 15th Century religous strife was intended as humor [;)]

Blessings

Dan Sheppard

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/121334#Comment_121334

One idea I was thinking about, as I read the messages, was the fact that I can copy my notes and highlighted items to a file, then print them out.

I have my L4 on a laptop, although I have the older version 3 on my desktop. I also have an iPhone, which I used for reading, until I got a Kindle for Christmas. I use it, too.

Most people I have talked to in my children's generation (they are 30 and 28) say they will wait for the second generation iPad. But the idea of having one, seems to be consistent: do it.

I finished reading about three books on my iPhone, before I even got a Kindle. It might be hard as a sem student, but I think that the iPad is probably much better. I guess if I were in seminary, I would work at home on my laptop, with L4 open. Going to class, I would take my iPad, which can always access my Bibles, commentaries, etc. If I do a clippings file and copy it into an email message to send to myself, I would always have those on my iPad, assuming I have set up my email on it.

I am wondering...if iPad will do visual communication, which is like a phone call, why not just have the phone features there, too. Then there will be no need for an iPhone, but you will have all the features in your iPad. Right????????

William

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/121503#Comment_121503

We really don't set out to be theological gatekeepers. We're in the process of ramping up production to 5000 titles a year. We're not going to be able to do that profitably if we only try to sell books to a narrow slice of the theological market.

This is exactly what I was thinking. I am wondering if Rene mistook what i was meaning. There are so many "religious" books out there it would take tens of thousands of books to make a dent. Just because this author is not published in logos yet doesn't mean he/she won't be. Lets just consider an example, New Coke!! Remember??? It came, we saw, it left. We got "coke classic." Now it's just coke again. Will we see new coke again? Probably not but we never know.