Timelines

I have no idea.  I thought I'd try it out ... I used it maybe 10 years ago.  I found maybe 1/3 of the kings.

I slipped over to Accordance timeline tool, and it took maybe 30 seconds to whip it out:

What am I doing wrong?

Ed, your question should generate a flood of requests for simple useful timelines in Logos. The timelines in Logos are cluttered and offer no sense of contrast and comparison. If Logos had timelines such as those found in the competitions, I would actually use them!

Ed, your question should generate a flood of requests for simple useful timelines in Logos.

We've already had our annual revisiting of this issue Dates of Old Testament Prophets - Faithlife Forums (logos.com) although a search of the forums indicates we may have accidentally missed 2021. Our annual discussion always seems to be prophets and kings.  Perhaps in 2021 we used a different example.

Ok, MJ, I've read the prior posts and have come away with a burr in my saddle. If as you contend that this is a topic regularly repeated, my first question is why?

There seems to be a hole inadequately filled; though the persons requesting the information appear satisfied with the help offered, I find no simple answer offered by the tool I think which should provide it readily, that being the Timeline Tool.

I'm sorry,  I just can't accept run this search, find this chart, or timeline, in this resource as an adequate answer. My Logos should excel and provide stunning results from the tool that should be adapted to provide the answer, namely the Timeline Tool. If this is accomplished, and I think it should be, then the annual hajj will have been halted.

I've never forgiven them and use external software to obtain the timelines I need. 

Your response makes me sad. If you truly withdrew your forgiveness you would have left Logos altogether, but we are far too invested for that solution. So, I encourage you to demand redress. Fix what is broken. Search is not the only squeaky wheel in this platform.

Fix what is broken. Search is not the only squeaky wheel in this platform.

Not answering for MJ, Beloved.  But there's really not much FL-produced, that actually works timeline-wise. 

The Faithlife Study Bible (image below) has Infographics and a set of organized timelines. But they don't appear to care whether they can be displayed for Bible class. Notice the immovable panel on the right, forcing a zoom-out just to get the kings in a view (compare to Accordance above).

If per chance, you still have the older Libby timelines, be careful.  Viewing the first one (eg kings) is fine (and quite interesting, showing which authors think which dates). But don't go for a second one (eg prophets) .... your Logos will crash.  I tried several times.

 I find the Logos Timlines are like Logos Search.... confusing. Both need lots of work!

I have a somewhat different analysis. The Timelines need continuing work on connecting resources and refining of categories. The primary problem with the Timeline is that it is not intended to meet the need we most often turn to it for. There is a reason that wrenches and screwdrivers are usually separate tools. The Search, on the other hand, is primarily a matter of putting in the mental effort to learn to use it. Yes, the syntax can be improved but you are still stuck with "If you can't clearly define what you are looking for, you can't tell if you found it."

About the Search.... no argument, it's me.... and just so you know.... I do try everyday ... just seems I always spend time "learning" instead of "doing". Hope I learn it before I don't need it any more.... FL asked the questions.... which gives hope it may be improved. [8-|]

As to the Timelines.... I know I'll get in trouble... but I know times I would like to use them... but they just don't work for me. Again, it's probably me.... 

Edit: I'm a Logos fan... I like Logos...but ... Logos has some work to do, no doubt. When the functions of Logos become so difficult or so convoluted (Search and Timeline) that people don't use them ... I think it lessens the greatness of the program. While I would like to see "new things" in Logos 10... maybe it would be better if more of FL time was spent in making some of these functions actually work so that we users can actually use them. 

I agree with a lot of what I've seen on this thread. I wish the timelines feature was more useful but in FL's defense, the way they built it I don't think would allow for what the OP is asking for. I could be wrong though.

Maybe they'll do another interactive in the future about the OT Kings and Prophets

Maybe they'll do another interactive in the future about the OT Kings and Prophets

I assume you're familar with what's known in the industry as the 'Logos 4-times rule'?

It usually takes FL 4 re-designs to get something right.  Maps are finally pretty good (4 re-designs).  Search is on 3-times.  Maybe this fall, a 4th and pretty good.  Text comparison is on #2.  It'll take 2 more re-designs for them.  Ditto Factbook.

FL clockworks.  Smiling.

Extra: the 4-times rule should not be confused with the 80% rule (any FL design achieves 80% of the customer need, with a 6-year wait for corrections).

[:D]

This is true. I can't say that I love the maps though. I didn't join Logos until the L6 days and I remember liking the old maps but the new ones aren't very clear to me. I wish they had more topography to them so I could zoom in and see mountains and caves. Finding cities can be a pain at times and of course you NEED an internet connection to view them. I also wish they had one main map that had everything like cities, trade routes, etc. I tend to just go to my atlases when I need a map because they are usually more colorful. I hope they had more graphics and detail in the future to make them better though. I will say I like the PPT slides they added to their atlas though. I hope they keep that up.

PS My MacBook every now and then will tell me I don't have internet when I clearly do when using the atlas. Probably just a me error but that is frustrating too because I have to exit the program and restart.

I am attempting to create a simple timeline

Ed's characterization of his problem with the tools design flaw is summarized nicely by his subject title and his concise statement of his dilemma. Take a lesson you developers. We want simple adaptable tools that present attractive data driven results. Not inflexible cluttered temperamental graphics that fail to deliver products you can teach and draw conclusions from.

These demands from your users should be treated with an immediacy of attention, in other words make this a priority, as your relevance as a company responsive to user needs depends on it.

Timelines are ridiculously burdened with glut.

Beloved, I'm just trying to understand what your issue could be.  In your mind, just hear the song .... 'what, what, what could the matter be ....'

- The menus have everything selected, so you have to unselect everything first?  One by one?

- It's not entirely clear exactly what you're choosing, relative to what you want?

- The colorful patterns don't immediately suggest a pattern?

- The randomness seems overly random?  Or maybe not?

- Entries might repeat?  The J-document, vs the J-document (Welhausen).  Well, which one?

- A search box that doesn't seem to search?

- Font adjustments that actually are zoom adjustments?

- Styles that make you ask .... Informal-y ... what were they thinking?

- And for goodness sakes, where are those kings you want?!!  Which ones, you say?  Kings! K-I-N-G-S!

It simply doesn't make sense. So when I think Timeline, I run.

I am attempting to create a simple timeline

Ed's characterization of his problem with the tools design flaw is summarized nicely by his subject title and his concise statement of his dilemma. Take a lesson you developers. We want simple adaptable tools that present attractive data driven results. Not inflexible cluttered temperamental graphics that fail to deliver products you can teach and draw conclusions from.
These demands from your users should be treated with an immediacy of attention, in other words make this a priority, as your relevance as a company responsive to user needs depends on it.

Okay, let's step back a bit and look at the issue objectively. I believe that the timeline is 3rd party software which is well within the state of the art capabilities. It depends upon preset categories to select what should/shouldn't be shown. The time frame has both preset and user set values. One has a choice of styles. While there are some issues with the organization of the selected categories and the handling of events spanning the begin/end dates selected, the software basically does a very good job of in laying out the timeline.

The issue is that we as users want a very granular control over what shows - prophets and kings being a prime example. The categories available are far too broad - Biblical event -->Individual. For use as handouts, what we want is a compound faceted selection (think of Bible browser) of all the data with just our selected entries. By compound I mean ability to combine multiple values for a facet e.g. king and prophet, Israel and Judah, only earliest dates  ...

We, as users, must first be clear in what we need, then determine if it is better to use graphics already in our library or build custom graphics, then add an actual suggestion (not complaint) to feedbear and show that FL should prioritize the project.

MJ, we want the same thing we just have different styles of communicating and different backgrounds which allow us to emphasize different aspects of the tool and its development.

As far as a FeedBear request I found that one already exists on this topic waiting for our votes and input and can be found here:

https://feedback.faithlife.com/boards/logos-desktop-app/posts/improve-timeline