Logos 10 Will be released...

But yes, you are a bad Logosian.  Good Logosians can question Logos for 2-3 posts before expressing agreement that Logos is absolutely perfect.  Smiling.

DMB, Is this, I wonder, what is seems to be emerging as a 'micro-aggression'? It is stereotyping and not supported by the evidence.

It does seem to be unfair in the context of this discussion, which it seems to me, is not about the usefulness or otherwise of Facebook, but an insistence on the use of the Enter key when it is inappropriate.

I am ready to criticise, yea even mock Faithlife for some of their failings. Indeed, in their position, I would take action and disable the Enter key when the focus is on the Go box thereby ensuring everyone clicked on at least one option from the drop-down menu.

Factbook may or may not be a dog's breakfast but if it intrudes on one's workflow in this situation, it really is a self inflicted injury.

It appears to me that Factbook is a "hopeful useful" additive to "try" to help alleviate the inabilities of Search. Such is the same truths about some of the guides and such.

Okay, we are making progress. That is not how I see Factbook at all. Factbook, to me, appears to be an attempt to provide encyclopedic information about Bible topics in a modern (read Wikipedia) way. I don't relate it directly to search at all. However, we have previously established that you use "search" in a wider sense than I as you use it for what I would call "lookups". As to your reference to guides, I think of them as saving me the extra steps of creating complex searches that are frequently requested by users. Several of these searches require direct queries against the SQL databases and cannot be recreated through the Search function. The Guides keep Logos from simply being databases against which one runs SQL queries and run logical merges on the results.

And I would suggest to FL that time be spent to make Search a "GREAT" function in Logos so that it is the "main" go-to when looking for something.

The average user is more interested in the data being at their fingertips, I believe - otherwise they would build a database and use SQL queries. It is my observation from the way in which users ask how to build searches, that many users lack the skills necessary to define their queries, let alone build them in SQL. That is the reason behind the search extensions such as labels ... to allow users to find information in terms that are meaningful to them. For example, how would you build a query based on the Bible text alone, to find all the miracles in the Bible? I can't imagine doing it without the use of graphs (networks, webs ... whatever term is familiar to you) and artificial intelligence techniques/natural language processing techniques.

Why have millions of resources if I cannot find something in them?

Without concrete examples, I can't answer this question. I have been trying for weeks to understand why you have so much difficulty and made one break-through based on your example of Moses' wife. As long as you post generalities rather than specific examples, I fear I may get no further in finding the missing piece that makes Logos so frustrating for you.

with all your arguments to me about that I should conform and blindly accept whatever the "Great Logos" puts out.

You misunderstand. My position is that one must learn to use the software as it is designed to be used before you can begin customizing it to use as you wish to use it. To do otherwise, will result only in frustration -- trying to get tools to do things they are not designed to do rather than finding if there is a tool that meets your needs.

1.  Do you really think... Logos Search is so "perfect" that it cannot be improved? 

Of course not, and I have said nothing that implied this.

2. Are you so "Logoized" that you are not even willing to look to making things with Search  better? 

Of course not, which is why I endlessly document it, learn its quirks, make concrete suggestions for improvement ... PS. I hope I am Verbumized not Logosized.

3. Does you coming down on others in a condescending way... such that they (me) do conform and shout the praises of Logos... ?

In person, I have never been accused of being condescending. On the contrary, I am someone who people are comfortable sharing difficult experiences with - things they share with neither their doctor nor their pastor, I hear spontaneously.

On the other hand, I fail to see how any of your questions move us forwards either in understanding your difficulties with the search or in creating concrete suggestions for improvement of the Search.  Aren't those the actual purpose of this discussion?

I think Search is so "categorized" by FL that FL hunts to pick a place where my search would go...if it doesn't fit the categories FL has pre-determined. The result of which... I have to learn "hieroglyphics" and the way FL thinks about something in order for me to be able to find something I am looking for. 

This is true for the tagging that replaces natural language processing graphs (graphs in the mathematical sense). But this should be a small portion of your work. Did I misunderstand when I believed that basic searches were the problem? Can you give some examples?

And I don't like Factbook coming up unless I choose to use it to do so

It doesn't ... and as long as you think it does, I'll think "Houston, we have a problem in the chair-to-keyboard interface. Corrective action needed."

simply because I have not found it to be useful.

What specifically have you tried finding in Factbook? Concrete examples please. Note: I rarely use Factbook because it makes no attempt to cover the subject matter I am most interested in. That doesn't mean I don't recognize its value for other lines of inquiry.

Not trying to offend anyone

I know no one on the forums who is so invested in the software as to take offense at valid criticism of its shortcomings. That is not the issue at hand. The issue is that you are clearly frustrated at your inability to get the information you want through Logos. To help you, we need concrete examples of your difficulties and a willingness on your part to accept guidance, at least on a temporary basis, on how to successfully use Logos to meet your needs. Once you understand one way that Logos is designed to provide the information, you are then free to choose your own path.

Not trying to offend anyone... but am trying to clarify my position.

That helps - and I too find the search facility hard to use and not very productive when I do.

However the only item on your hit list of improvements that I have been discussing is

"11. Stop Factbook from opening every time when I try to type in "Go Box" or Search. If I want Factbook open... let me choose to do so and don't force it on me. (I don't use Factbook... it doesn't help me find anything and now it is a nuisance or a "make work interruptus" in that I have to stop and close it)."

It is the opening of Facebook every time one types in the Go box that I claim is an 'self inflicted injury' based on an instinctive desire to press Enter rather than select a useful entry from the drop-down menu.

My posts have not been intended to deal with any of the other, more serious faults with the search system. I do not want the developers spending time dealing with a non-problem when there are so many really useful things that they could be fixing.

I have suggested that they disable the Enter key when the Go box is in use however I really don't want them even spending time to do that.

In my, not very extensive, testing I find that Factbook does not open when I type in the Go box.

and I could skip it should I wish. Incidentally clicking on the first entry leads me here...

Clicking on the Read more link gives me...

And my question is answered in three clicks.

The other side is needing to wait for the results to come up for an option other than Factbook. I've learned that I have to wait. But I'd rather not have to wait for the other options to come up.

Doesn't this wait depend on the speed of ones processor? My system took 3 seconds to produce the options for 'Mud'. How does that compare with seeking out a resource and running an inline search. BTW the Lexham Bible Dictionary doesn't seem to have an article on Mud ;-)

The debate does strike me as xnman saying "the current system inconveniences me" and being told, "then do it differently" can lead to the frustration he expressed.

There comes a time when the guy who regularly goes into the workshop complaining that when he pushes the break pedal his car slows down get short shift from the mechanic who has told him often enough that if he doesn't want his car to slow down not to push the enter key  brake pedal.

I go to Logos Search and this is what I get..

This is basically the same as mine. I had deselected the option to "match all word forms" in the panel menu which is why I only got results with "kings of" as opposed to "king of".

The Good News Translation" does not appear like it does in yours... which, as I have stated more than once.... implies to me that Search is not searching all my resources.... which hurst my confidence in Search....

We showed the results differently because my search window was set to By resource (where the full title of the resource is shown) as opposed to Ranked (which shows the abbreviated title). The different titles are shown below:

So there is nothing here that indicates your Search is not working. And I don't recall seeing specific examples where that was the case - as opposed to it not returning the results you were hoping for. If you do find some, please start a new thread and show that clearly as that would be concerning.

So.... I go to Google....  same search...

This is really what I was trying to understand - as it looks as though you were looking for some form of chart, which wasn't clear to me from your original question.

Now....  In Logos Search.... I have to "jump thru hoops" ... try to decipher hieroglyphics..  maybe even ask you on the forum... and maybe pray in all that.... to try and find an answer in my resources...  and as I showed earlier.... I have such a comparable chart in my resources... 

It does involve doing the right sort of search in the right place - so searching for a Table in a Media Search should do the job:

I know that involves being aware of the different search options. Personally I value the precision available in Logos for this sort of thing but I do recognise it does require a bit more work.

As to Factbook.....  I don't use it as I don't find it actually works for me in finding things I search for..... so why am I pestered with it?

I don't see how this is relevant to a discussion on Search - they are different things.

I am persistent to a fault.

Persistence is great - but, personally for me to be able to offer any suggestions about how to use Logos better it needs clarity about what a user is seeking to do.

I think you might be surprised with what you find.

That's a great point

Thank you, I missed that.