Logos Light Years Behind!

I’m still scratching my head as to why Logos is light years behind in the graphics department! It’s a shame that Accordance takes the lead in that department and that EVEN Olive Tree has better graphics than Logos!
I had never used olive tree, but I just bought it for a couple of resources and a few free ones that I got; and I can honestly say I was impressed how you can click on an image and it will open in a separate window to show you the enlarged version of it!

I don’t mean this as an insult, but are the software developers at faithlife not competent enough to make this happen in Logos? Did they build the program in such a way that they cannot go back and add this and so now they’re stuck with the graphics as they currently are (i.e. crappy)?

I feel that Faithlife either doesn’t care or they just got complacent and have settled for being “ok” or “let’s just leave it like that, that should be enough.” Or maybe 🤔 just maybe, they say, “we’re the best out there, so there’s no more room for improvement.”

The ironic part is that graphics were at least half descent back in the Libronix days, now they just suck and only a handful of old graphics work like they used to; which means they can actually fix the problem and make it better, but they just won’t.

I guess I’ll just keep scratching my head and hope for graphics to get better in L10 or L20 if I’m still alive 😳

DAL

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GaoLu

Nothing like a little whizz, bang, pop. But when I use Logos, I want to get work done.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1220499#Comment_1220499

But when I use Logos, I want to get work done.

Me too ... and Logos graphics/media are a real slow-down. Journal illustrations and the need to zoom in. Logos no-can-do. Maps (yesterday) ... they're still trying hard. Timelines ... don't even bother.

And let's not even discuss image quality issues. Sounding pretty catty, but Logos' heart remains in Windows 95 and Access (if you watch their development trends). And judging from Proclaim posts, the text/database culture at FL isn't just the Logos/Verbum product.

DMB

The ironic part is that graphics were at least half descent back in the Libronix days,

Libby, Libby, Libby, on the Label, Label, Label. Happy girl!

Very true the ironies ... Libby resources not developed by Logos, that moved into Logos, can zoom their imagery. Whoo hoo, Libby!

David Wanat

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1220503#Comment_1220503

To be honest, 99.9% of what I do involves text. So I never really noticed. Looking at screenshots of Accordance, I’m not seeing anything that makes me go, “ooh, I wish we had that!”

But maybe that’s just me?

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1220509#Comment_1220509

To be honest, 99.9% of what I do involves text.

That may be the issue/differentiator.

Accordance has a lot more emphasis on imagery. Logos emphasizes text. I do both ... I like to zoom into the mss images, and also the archaeological imagery to see more exactly. Is that really a 'dwd' ... Dan.

An example from Carta's Echos (no can do in Logos) below. Another nice feature, is the ability to quickly 'cycle' thru images in a resource (using the little white arrows, left and right). They do this for both desktop, and mobile. Saves time.

Ted Weis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1220512#Comment_1220512

Maps and visuals are important teaching tools. I too wish Logos resources were better. For example, it'd be nice if you could have a map of Israel, take out the towns, etc. you don't want cluttering your image, and just highlight, say the route Mary and Joseph took from Nazareth and Bethlehem, and save it as a new map.

David Wanat

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1220512#Comment_1220512

To be honest, 99.9% of what I do involves text.

That may be the issue/differentiator.

Accordance has a lot more emphasis on imagery. Logos emphasizes text. I do both ... I like to zoom into the mss images, and also the archaeological imagery to see more exactly. Is that really a 'dwd' ... Dan.

An example from Carta's Echos (no can do in Logos) below. Another nice feature, is the ability to quickly 'cycle' thru images in a resource (using the little white arrows, left and right). They do this for both desktop, and mobile. Saves time.

Fair point. If I used images more, I’d want them to look better than that.

Joseph Turner

Did they build the program in such a way that they cannot go back and add this and so now they’re stuck with the graphics as they currently are

This is kind of what I've always assumed, except I think it's the resources themselves that already have the graphics as they are, and not the ability of the program. Since the graphics are already a part of the resource, then they would have to update every resource.

I don't know of course, but the daunting nature of updating every resource might explain why things haven't changed.

Mattillo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1220526#Comment_1220526

Agreed... If Logos cared about it they would have fixed it by now. Still have more datasets to make I guess

SineNomine

you can click on an image and it will open in a separate window to show you the enlarged version of it!

I'd vote for the feedback.faithlife.com entry for this.

Mattillo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1220792#Comment_1220792

you can click on an image and it will open in a separate window to show you the enlarged version of it!

I'd vote for the feedback.faithlife.com entry for this.

https://feedback.faithlife.com/boards/logos-desktop-app/posts/enlarge-images

Mattillo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1220810#Comment_1220810

I also found this one that is similar but only refers to maps: https://feedback.faithlife.com/boards/logos-desktop-app/posts/enlarge-maps-feature

Vote for both

Mark

Did they build the program in such a way that they cannot go back and add this and so now they’re stuck with the graphics as they currently are (i.e. crappy)?

The ironic part is that graphics were at least half descent back in the Libronix days

Going from L3 to L4 was traumatic, as it was a complete change in programming. Perhaps another traumatic change will eventually come....

MWW

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1220830#Comment_1220830

I agree that logos can be graphically challenged. When looking for visuals, I usually go outside of logos

MWW

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1220830#Comment_1220830

I agree that logos can be graphically challenged. When looking for visuals, I usually go outside of logos

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1220811#Comment_1220811

I also found this one that is similar but only refers to maps: https://feedback.faithlife.com/boards/logos-desktop-app/posts/enlarge-maps-feature

That's interesting. I'd forgotten about Logos5 (apparently the graphics trail at Bellingham High, has been long and arduous).

Anyway, since I have my new-ish MBP, I decided to try out the L5 graphics (they still have the maps, etc). Zooming is still screwed up ... how many years?

Apparently, the Phoenix team dutifully copied the Bellingham team's coding.

I don't think DAL and Joseph's surmising of the platform, as being the primary issue. I think it's closer to 'just don't care'. And I'll admit, I don't vote ... if they like buggy software, I say go for it. Smiling.

DAL

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1220842#Comment_1220842

I also found this one that is similar but only refers to maps: https://feedback.faithlife.com/boards/logos-desktop-app/posts/enlarge-maps-feature

That's interesting. I'd forgotten about Logos5 (apparently the graphics trail at Bellingham High, has been long and arduous).

Anyway, since I have my new-ish MBP, I decided to try out the L5 graphics (they still have the maps, etc). Zooming is still screwed up ... how many years?

Apparently, the Phoenix team dutifully copied the Bellingham team's coding.

I don't think DAL and Joseph's surmising of the platform, as being the primary issue. I think it's closer to 'just don't care'. And I'll admit, I don't vote ... if they like buggy software, I say go for it. Smiling.

I was just trying to give them the benefit of a doubt 😂 but yeah, I think they don’t care is the more accurate assessment of this whole situation. Which sucks because we are actually paying them for the features, it’s not like they’re giving them away for free. And they are not cheap either!

DAL

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1220842#Comment_1220842

Well, you have to admit, the 'feature' is artistic! But, suspiciously Samaritan!

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1220830#Comment_1220830

Did they build the program in such a way that they cannot go back and add this and so now they’re stuck with the graphics as they currently are (i.e. crappy)?

The ironic part is that graphics were at least half descent back in the Libronix days

Going from L3 to L4 was traumatic, as it was a complete change in programming. Perhaps another traumatic change will eventually come....

I loved 2, and I loved 4. But I had a really hard time with 3. I'm probably in the minority there.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1221071#Comment_1221071

I loved 2, and I loved 4. But I had a really hard time with 3. I'm probably in the minority there.

[Y] but not alone [:D]

xnman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1221084#Comment_1221084

Welllll .... I have a friend that has Accordance... and I've played with it.... and I guess I must be more textual than graphical.... while I think there are improvement that could happen in Logos.... I'll still pick Logos... Guess I still think... Nothing made by man is perfect. -- [8-|]

mab

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1221088#Comment_1221088

I have to admit that most of my Bible study hasn't made any real use of Logos graphics. If you have lousy internet or crummy graphics, you might have even more trouble. I've been playing with the Atlas. Kind of cool but it's internet only which doesn't help if you can't connect.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1221088#Comment_1221088

and I've played with it.

You should play some more. Though I suspect you're stuck in Logos for the duration.

Below, the 2D view, and customization menu on the left; build your own layers as well. Below that 3D, good in Bible class, especially with the younger set. Off-line too.

Dan Cleghorn

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1220517#Comment_1220517

Maps and visuals are important teaching tools. I too wish Logos resources were better. For example, it'd be nice if you could have a map of Israel, take out the towns, etc. you don't want cluttering your image, and just highlight, say the route Mary and Joseph took from Nazareth and Bethlehem, and save it as a new map.

This was all possible with Logos Bible Atlas 2.0. It was a great product, even allowing you to look at the route in 3-D while panning the map in different directions. I used it a lot in my teaching. I do not even look at the current Bible atlas.

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1221084#Comment_1221084

I loved 2, and I loved 4. But I had a really hard time with 3. I'm probably in the minority there.

but not alone

I didn't actually buy 3, just 2 and 4. But I had access to 3 (for journals) at the bible college I was attending.

The first time I tried to print a journal article from L3, it selected leagues more than I intended, and I made the school printer print a ream of paper. Librarian was NOT happy.

Pretty sure that was when they started a per page fee to print. *chuckle*.

Veli Voipio

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1221242#Comment_1221242

There are many free and commercial graphic and GIS platforms available in these days.

Vector graphics, layers, and allowing the users to draw (and add data) would be cool.

It needs a good long term requirement specification based on the current and future user needs, perhaps including new creative use cases.

FL could start with a global teleseminar collecting ideas and use cases from the actual users - as soon as reasonably possible.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1221883#Comment_1221883

There are many free and commercial graphic and GIS platforms available in these days.

Vector graphics, layers, and allowing the users to draw (and add data) would be cool.

It needs a good long term requirement specification based on the current and future user needs, perhaps including new creative use cases.

FL could start with a global teleseminar collecting ideas and use cases from the actual users - as soon as reasonably possible.

Your thinking is an attractive approach. And not disagreeing. But, I'm just guessing:

- They're using 'use' statistics, and the complicated Logos attracts a text user (sermons, analysis, reading). 'Visual' users are a different market. And here, I'll probably get in trouble, but the Catholic/Orthodox and 'liturgical' protestant is more visual. Not FL's world.

- I'm pretty sure the current graphics (mapping) were designed to be multi-platform ... part of Phil's web as 'lead the way'. Desktop, web, mobile mapping. And imagery display is from the old L4. So, just economics-wise, 'imagery' is all they'd want to re-do. They're exhausted re-doing mapping.

- On the other hand, (and my opinion, obviously), but they're running out of features to add to an over-burdened platform. Factbook was to try to organize the app, but it's mainly just a stack of stuff. Visual would wake up the platform.

So. Who knows.

Added: You remember visual bookshelves? Logosians really liked visual bookshelves. FL's answer was a random screen of book covers. So, it went.

Added II: Look at their graphs. After 13+ years, still no idea what the dimensions are. They really hate visual. I remember Bob trying to explain Bible version graphing. And he was the boss. I'm sure this graph is something (ignoring the inaccurate statement):

Veli Voipio

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1221894#Comment_1221894

I am currently reading: Leen Ritmeyer: The Quest: Revealing the Temple Mount in Jerusalem

https://www.logos.com/product/190965/the-quest-revealing-the temple-mount-in-jerusalem

It has many pictures and drawings and it it nice to read. But I still cannot visualize things very well. Therefore I would like to have a 3D model of the Ritmeyer's Temple area where I could turn it around, walk inside, also in tunnels and see plans and and cross-sections. It should be full 3D including the underground structures.

No, not 3D. I want to have 4D [:'(]. I mean also the time dimension is needed. Historical research needs it. It should not be that difficult. Objects and databases and text tags could have start/stop times and, well, most software can handle it, that's it.

Visual' users are a different market.

I agree, and it can be expensive and needs a gaming computer. But FL could just sell it as a separate product, with smoothly functioning two-way links with Logos. No need to design it from scratch, just use some existing software on the market, many of them might be happy to co-operate.

I took this picture 1972, Jerusalem underground, just to illustrate that we could avoid dangerous places with good software.

Mark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1221930#Comment_1221930

But FL could just sell it as a separate product, with smoothly functioning two-way links with Logos. No need to design it from scratch, just use some existing software on the market, many of them might be happy to co-operate.

I agree. You are onto something here. Hope FL is listening. Perhaps it wont work. But perhaps it could...